[steamingbill]

Hello,

Was wondering how other people approach making accurate cuts.

If I am making some sort of 3d object and I make relatively small errors in my cuts then by the time I have either "gone round a loop or a carcass" or gone around a few 90 degree bends in different orthogonal directions then I find that bits dont quite meet up with other bits and things arent quite square.

I try to be as accurate as possible in my cuts but I can mess something up - it seems to me there are 2 issues

1. How do I organise myself top make measurements and cuts as accurately as possible ?

2. Ways of correcting or even hiding things - for example - I noticed when I was owner builder of my house that I could hide a poorly cut plaster edge with the final architraves and skirting boards - ie the very last thing done is the most visible and needs to be perfect but the stuff underneath has some "slack"

Any good general tips or threads or web sites or hints for measuring and making accurate cuts when doing normal jobs in the shed ?

ie use of story sticks instead of rulers ?

empirical measuring rather than using a tape measure or ruler - ie take the thickness directly off a piece of timber rather than measure thickness (possible error) and then mark up using ruler ( another possible error) ?

use of a marking knife or gauge rather than a pencil ? How many people do this ?

use of jigs to make all relevant pieces the same length, width, holes in the same place etc

I often think to myself things like "cut so that you can still see the edge of the pencil line"

How do the rest of you organise yourselves to be as accurate as possible ?

Regards

Bill

 

[GulfcoastGuy]

I learned early on that pre-cutting every piece to a plan or drawing, then going on with assembly was (for me) a disaster. Cutting mortises to a measured dimension is fine but trying to measure and cut the tenon and expecting it to fit didn't work for me. But do the mortise then cut the tenon a little big and "sneaking" up on the correct dimension slowly seemed to work. Now when ever I can I use existing elements to ID where and what to cut. Basically I cut what I need to get started then use that (when I can) to mark and cut the rest. Over cutting and trimming to size with a pattern following bit; some folks will call it a cheat but it works in some cases.

When I need to be very accurate with something I can't afford to get wrong, like when I was making my acrylic sump filter insert for my aquarium, I'll make templates, get them right, and rough cut the final piece and trim to size again using a pattern following bit.

For correct angles I rely on accurate alignment, careful setups, and the best technique I can manage.

GCG

 

[Quillman]

I mill to a mil.

 

[GulfcoastGuy]

I mill to a mil.

Yeah, but you're you and the rest of us mere mortals have to struggle for a 64th or a 32nd even. :jester:

 

[Jerry Bowen]

Hello,

Was wondering how other people approach making accurate cuts.

If I am making some sort of 3d object and I make relatively small errors in my cuts then by the time I have either "gone round a loop or a carcass" or gone around a few 90 degree bends in different orthogonal directions then I find that bits dont quite meet up with other bits and things arent quite square.

I try to be as accurate as possible in my cuts but I can mess something up - it seems to me there are 2 issues

1. How do I organise myself top make measurements and cuts as accurately as possible ?

2. Ways of correcting or even hiding things - for example - I noticed when I was owner builder of my house that I could hide a poorly cut plaster edge with the final architraves and skirting boards - ie the very last thing done is the most visible and needs to be perfect but the stuff underneath has some "slack"

Any good general tips or threads or web sites or hints for measuring and making accurate cuts when doing normal jobs in the shed ?

ie use of story sticks instead of rulers ?

empirical measuring rather than using a tape measure or ruler - ie take the thickness directly off a piece of timber rather than measure thickness (possible error) and then mark up using ruler ( another possible error) ?

use of a marking knife or gauge rather than a pencil ? How many people do this ?

use of jigs to make all relevant pieces the same length, width, holes in the same place etc

I often think to myself things like "cut so that you can still see the edge of the pencil line"

How do the rest of you organise yourselves to be as accurate as possible ?

Regards

Bill

Bill,
You are dealing with, what for me, is the fasinating part of woodworking. I'm new at it and am enjoying very much finding ways to accomplish what you are addressing in your thread on this forum. For me anyway, having accurate tools and knowing their limitatition and/or boundries is a must. I am not sure what you mean by the term 3d projects. My challenges have been primariy with cutting angles. The answer in doing the angles has been with the use of the Incra Miter Gauge, getting it exactly calibrated, and dealing with the flutter of the blade in the TS. This was accomplished, again for me, with finding that first of all I had to use a full kerf blade with a stabilizer. A thin kerf blade would not work for me. This was not true for simple 90 degree cuts, but when it csme to 30 degree cuts for example it was different story. I know that other members that read this will be tired of hearing me talk about my quest for that level of accuracy, I'm just saying that learning about such things is part of what has made woodworking so interesting and challenging for me. There is indeed a difference between being a carpenter and a fine woodworker, at least that is so in my view. I'm just starting to learn how to make toung and mortise joints. Making one is easy but am waiting to see how making eight of them so that the project stays squard and level is my present challenge. If it were easy, being very accurate with everything I mean, anybody could do it. It's not easy and that is what makes it so interesting.

Wishing you the best in your quest for accuracy,

Jerry

 

[Mike]

I have found that marking knives while accurate are at times difficult to see. I have a drawer full of sharpened pencils with very fine points. I change pencils as needed to keep my lines as fine as possible. I have been testing a Bic mechanical pencil which uses leads that measure 0.7 mm and at this point I am still undecided on it.

I have been using the triangles shown in the following link for layouts and adjusting set ups and they work very well. See them here: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25091&site=ROCKLER

With most routing jobs I use brass set up bars.

For calibrating machines I use the Betterley Unigauge.

 

[Stick486]

I have found that marking knives while accurate are at times difficult to see. I have a drawer full of sharpened pencils with very fine points. I change pencils as needed to keep my lines as fine as possible. I have been testing a Bic mechanical pencil which uses leads that measure 0.7 mm and at this point I am still undecided on it.

I have been using the triangles shown in the following link for layouts and adjusting set ups and they work very well. See them here: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25091&site=ROCKLER

With most routing jobs I use brass set up bars.

For calibrating machines I use the Betterley Unigauge.

I'm with you on the mechanical pencils only they are Pentels in .05, .07, and .09mm complete w/ slip on triangle shaped silicone grips... Have a .03mm but that doesn't get used much.. the leads are too fragile for woodworking..

Drill sizing gauges to verify diameters... (wait till you try and figure out the true dia of an off shore bit)... different from bit to bit even with the same size declaration..
A wide array of drafting triangles, circle templates, protractors, (adjustable and not) curves, compasses, dividers, (IS/OS) Wixey..

Squares, saddle squares, machinist squares, speed squares, machined rulers from 6" to 72", centering rulers to 48", straight edges, trammels, folding rulers, calipers, marking gauges, brass gauges, cutting gauges, array of marking knives, set up dial indicators/bases, thickness gauges, fixed angle gauges and on and on....

What do want for four generations of tools/machinery...

 

[Jerry Bowen]

I'm with you on the mechanical pencils only they are Pentels in .05, .07, and .09mm complete w/ slip on triangle shaped silicone grips... Have a .03mm but that doesn't get used much.. the leads are too fragile for woodworking..

Drill sizing gauges to verify diameters... (wait till you try and figure out the true dia of an off shore bit)... different from bit to bit even with the same size declaration..
A wide array of drafting triangles, circle templates, protractors, (adjustable and not) curves, compasses, dividers, (IS/OS) Wixey..

Squares, saddle squares, machinist squares, speed squares, machined rulers from 6" to 72", centering rulers to 48", straight edges, trammels, folding rulers, calipers, marking gauges, brass gauges, cutting gauges, array of marking knives, set up dial indicators/bases, thickness gauges, fixed angle gauges and on and on....

What do want for four generations of tools/machinery...

Stick, you and Mike talk in terms that absolutely foriegn to people like myself which just makes knowing how very much there is to be learned about woodworking. It's good thing that the enjoyment that one gets out of woodworking is not based on one's knowledge, but rather learning about such things as you two wizard and others on the forum like you already know. Sure do appreciate your vast knowledge and willingness to help folks like me.

Jerry

 

[Stick486]

Stick, you and Mike talk in terms that absolutely foreign to people like myself which just makes knowing how very much there is to be learned about woodworking. It's good thing that the enjoyment that one gets out of woodworking is not based on one's knowledge, but rather learning about such things as you two wizard and others on the forum like you already know. Sure do appreciate your vast knowledge and willingness to help folks like me.

Jerry

How so on the foreign terms???
How may I break down what I post to benefit you or make for a better understanding???
Be happy to, just ask...

 

[mgmine]

For me it comes down to how accuate it has to be. Miters have to be exact so for that I use a powered miter saw and cut the piece a little longer, maybe just a wisker but none the less longer. I then will check the fit and go back two or three times to get it dead on. I like using a knife instead of a pencil if the cut has to be really accurate. I will also use a Lion miter trimmer and shave the edge. I also use "sticks" at times to take the measurement to eliminate any error that a tape measure might give me. As last resort I may undercut a piece a little so that only the very tip of the edge is in contact with the mating piece.

 

[JOAT]

use of jigs to make all relevant pieces the same length, width, holes in the same place etc

For making multiples, that is exactly how I do it.

For one time, I often just cut close to the pencil mark, then carefully sand down to it. That normally gives me the accuracy I need/desire. Sometime in the near future I will be doing a small octagon of 1/2" plywood, just that way. I have several patterns glued down, so have some spares until I get it perfect. Then once I get a perfect piece, it will be used in making a jig/master so I can clone as many as I want, with no need for measuring or marking. They'll be used for chess piece bases, and checkers.

 

[Stick486]

For me it comes down to how accuate it has to be. Miters have to be exact so for that I use a powered miter saw and cut the piece a little longer, maybe just a wisker but none the less longer. I then will check the fit and go back two or three times to get it dead on. I like using a knife instead of a pencil if the cut has to be really accurate. I will also use a Lion miter trimmer and shave the edge. I also use "sticks" at times to take the measurement to eliminate any error that a tape measure might give me. As last resort I may undercut a piece a little so that only the very tip of the edge is in contact with the mating piece.

I also use the CMS and Lion knife also though it takes jigs to do compounds on the knife...
also use a miter board and a low angle smoothing plane at times...
Didn't think there were many Lion users out there...

 

[JOAT]

I have been testing a Bic mechanical pencil which uses leads that measure 0.7 mm and at this point I am still undecided on it.

Mike, I have been using those for some time now, and am very satisfied with them. The lead lasts a long time, and when it's used up, there are two spares in the pencil (most people don't seem to know that). I usually misplace one long before the lead is used up. At a buck or so for a dozen+, can't go wrong. And you always get the same size pencil mark.

 

[Jerry Bowen]

How so on the fore.ign terms???
How may I break down what I post to benefit you or make for a better understanding???
Be happy to, just ask...

Stick, I am not capable of understanding every term that you guys use from time to time. What I am happy about is that you are available when specific questions come up and my learning is best done as I need it.

Thanks,
Jerry

 

[Wood Chip]

Excellent question! So much great advice too.

Unfortunately I can't afford to buy incra-this and miter-that. I have to make-do with what I have, and hopefully make-do better than I made-did. Instead of looking inward for the human causes of inaccuracy (after all, we're perfect, right?), I looked at my tools. If you don't already, I urge you to develop the habits of cleaning and sharpening your tools to keep them in top shape. This is a valuable first step that doesn't cost much. Once your tools are accurate, then you can explore other solutions.

 

[Stick486]

Stick, I am not capable of understanding every term that you guys use from time to time. What I am happy about is that you are available when specific questions come up and my learning is best done as I need it.

Thanks,
Jerry

You either... (but what was it that I said)???
I wunder if there is a glossary buried in here some place...

ask away... I know there is a some kind of serious brain trust here at the ready...

 

[Stick486]

Stick, you and Mike talk in terms that absolutely foriegn to people like myself which just makes knowing how very much there is to be learned about woodworking. It's good thing that the enjoyment that one gets out of woodworking is not based on one's knowledge, but rather learning about such things as you two wizard and others on the forum like you already know. Sure do appreciate your vast knowledge and willingness to help folks like me.

Jerry

I think I got it now...

it's the tool terminology....

other than the Lion knife (the company closed it's doors) everything we talk of you will find in LeeValley Veritas, Highland Woodworking, Woodcraft, and Rockler catalogs...
Read these catalogs and gleam...
Tool names, functions, purpose and a whole array of other cool information to be had for free...
Rockler and LeeValley each have news letters with massive lists of tutorials done for the early novice as well as the more advanced..

Go to these company's web sites and get on their mailing lists... Explore the bonus links...

LeeValley 1-800-871-8158.... Lee Valley Tools - Woodworking Tools, Woodworking Supplies, Woodworking Books for Woodworkers
Look to here... Lee Valley Tools - Email Sign-up
Highland 1-800-241-6748.... Woodworking Tools | Woodworking Equipment
Look here too... Highland Wood News | Online Woodworking Magazine | Highland Woodworking
Woodcraft (look to your locale) Woodworking Plans & Tools | Fine Woodworking Project & Supplies at Woodcraft
Rockler (look to your locale) http://www.rockler.com/index.cfm?gclid=CITy9vj9_rQCFetDMgodFFkAxg
Freud (what does to who and how to do it) About Us

 

[Mike]

Jerry, please do ask questions if something is not clear. This means I failed. It's nasty cold here today but I will get into the garage soon and take some photos.

 

[DaninVan]

Never without a couple of .05mm mech. pencils in my pocket. Cheap and practical.
Replacement leads are even cheaper.
Great thread topic, Bill.
Speaking of reflections, my machinists rules drive me crazy; as bad if not worse than trying to read one of the old mercury clinical thermometers.

 

[steamingbill]

Octagon

For making multiples, that is exactly how I do it.
Sometime in the near future I will be doing a small octagon of 1/2" plywood, just that way.

I made an octagonal "pipe" once just for fun

After making the 22.5 degree jig I came up with a cheat.

Make the octagon in 2 halves each one being a 4 sided piece.

Dry fit the 2 sections together, if they match exactly give yourself a pat on the back .............

If they dont match exactly, then prior to gluing them together you can run both of the 4 sided sections along some sandpaper glued to a flat piece of wood or glass, ensuring that the angle between the first edge and the 4th edge of the octagon is exactly 180 degrees.

This helps to eliminate the accumulated inaccuracies from the multiple cuts.

This will work with any 4 6 8 10 12 (etc) sided figure, as when you are half way around the polygon the first and last edges should be in the same plane.

Regards

Bill