Accuracy - general hints and tips ?

8948 Views 40 Replies 17 Participants Last post by steamingbill, Jan 27, 2013

steamingbill

Discussion Starter · Jan 23, 2013

Hello,

Was wondering how other people approach making accurate cuts.

If I am making some sort of 3d object and I make relatively small errors in my cuts then by the time I have either "gone round a loop or a carcass" or gone around a few 90 degree bends in different orthogonal directions then I find that bits dont quite meet up with other bits and things arent quite square.

I try to be as accurate as possible in my cuts but I can mess something up - it seems to me there are 2 issues

1. How do I organise myself top make measurements and cuts as accurately as possible ?

2. Ways of correcting or even hiding things - for example - I noticed when I was owner builder of my house that I could hide a poorly cut plaster edge with the final architraves and skirting boards - ie the very last thing done is the most visible and needs to be perfect but the stuff underneath has some "slack"

Any good general tips or threads or web sites or hints for measuring and making accurate cuts when doing normal jobs in the shed ?

ie use of story sticks instead of rulers ?

empirical measuring rather than using a tape measure or ruler - ie take the thickness directly off a piece of timber rather than measure thickness (possible error) and then mark up using ruler ( another possible error) ?

use of a marking knife or gauge rather than a pencil ? How many people do this ?

use of jigs to make all relevant pieces the same length, width, holes in the same place etc

I often think to myself things like "cut so that you can still see the edge of the pencil line"

How do the rest of you organise yourselves to be as accurate as possible ?

Regards

Bill

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Stick486

· #7 · Jan 23, 2013

Mike said:
I have found that marking knives while accurate are at times difficult to see. I have a drawer full of sharpened pencils with very fine points. I change pencils as needed to keep my lines as fine as possible. I have been testing a Bic mechanical pencil which uses leads that measure 0.7 mm and at this point I am still undecided on it.

I have been using the triangles shown in the following link for layouts and adjusting set ups and they work very well. See them here: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25091&site=ROCKLER

With most routing jobs I use brass set up bars.

For calibrating machines I use the Betterley Unigauge.

I'm with you on the mechanical pencils only they are Pentels in .05, .07, and .09mm complete w/ slip on triangle shaped silicone grips... Have a .03mm but that doesn't get used much.. the leads are too fragile for woodworking..

Drill sizing gauges to verify diameters... (wait till you try and figure out the true dia of an off shore bit)... different from bit to bit even with the same size declaration..
A wide array of drafting triangles, circle templates, protractors, (adjustable and not) curves, compasses, dividers, (IS/OS) Wixey..

Squares, saddle squares, machinist squares, speed squares, machined rulers from 6" to 72", centering rulers to 48", straight edges, trammels, folding rulers, calipers, marking gauges, brass gauges, cutting gauges, array of marking knives, set up dial indicators/bases, thickness gauges, fixed angle gauges and on and on....

What do want for four generations of tools/machinery...

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Stick486

· #9 · Jan 23, 2013

Jerry Bowen said:
Stick, you and Mike talk in terms that absolutely foreign to people like myself which just makes knowing how very much there is to be learned about woodworking. It's good thing that the enjoyment that one gets out of woodworking is not based on one's knowledge, but rather learning about such things as you two wizard and others on the forum like you already know. Sure do appreciate your vast knowledge and willingness to help folks like me.

Jerry

How so on the foreign terms???
How may I break down what I post to benefit you or make for a better understanding???
Be happy to, just ask...

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Stick486

· #12 · Jan 23, 2013

mgmine said:
For me it comes down to how accuate it has to be. Miters have to be exact so for that I use a powered miter saw and cut the piece a little longer, maybe just a wisker but none the less longer. I then will check the fit and go back two or three times to get it dead on. I like using a knife instead of a pencil if the cut has to be really accurate. I will also use a Lion miter trimmer and shave the edge. I also use "sticks" at times to take the measurement to eliminate any error that a tape measure might give me. As last resort I may undercut a piece a little so that only the very tip of the edge is in contact with the mating piece.

I also use the CMS and Lion knife also though it takes jigs to do compounds on the knife...
also use a miter board and a low angle smoothing plane at times...
Didn't think there were many Lion users out there...

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Stick486

· #16 · Jan 23, 2013

Jerry Bowen said:
Stick, I am not capable of understanding every term that you guys use from time to time. What I am happy about is that you are available when specific questions come up and my learning is best done as I need it.

Thanks,
Jerry

You either... (but what was it that I said)???
I wunder if there is a glossary buried in here some place...

ask away... I know there is a some kind of serious brain trust here at the ready...

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Stick486

· #17 · Jan 23, 2013

Jerry Bowen said:
Stick, you and Mike talk in terms that absolutely foriegn to people like myself which just makes knowing how very much there is to be learned about woodworking. It's good thing that the enjoyment that one gets out of woodworking is not based on one's knowledge, but rather learning about such things as you two wizard and others on the forum like you already know. Sure do appreciate your vast knowledge and willingness to help folks like me.

Jerry

I think I got it now...

it's the tool terminology....

other than the Lion knife (the company closed it's doors) everything we talk of you will find in LeeValley Veritas, Highland Woodworking, Woodcraft, and Rockler catalogs...
Read these catalogs and gleam...
Tool names, functions, purpose and a whole array of other cool information to be had for free...
Rockler and LeeValley each have news letters with massive lists of tutorials done for the early novice as well as the more advanced..

Go to these company's web sites and get on their mailing lists... Explore the bonus links...

LeeValley 1-800-871-8158.... Lee Valley Tools - Woodworking Tools, Woodworking Supplies, Woodworking Books for Woodworkers
Look to here... Lee Valley Tools - Email Sign-up
Highland 1-800-241-6748.... Woodworking Tools | Woodworking Equipment
Look here too... Highland Wood News | Online Woodworking Magazine | Highland Woodworking
Woodcraft (look to your locale) Woodworking Plans & Tools | Fine Woodworking Project & Supplies at Woodcraft
Rockler (look to your locale) http://www.rockler.com/index.cfm?gclid=CITy9vj9_rQCFetDMgodFFkAxg
Freud (what does to who and how to do it) About Us

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Stick486

· #22 · Jan 24, 2013

Hello Phil...

I see you have been rummaging thru my stuff...

On the miters I kept Lion Knife (bottom pic) and sold the shear years ago (third pic from the bottom)... But I still like doing them the traditional way and prefer the LA smoother...

All the hand tools you show routinely come into play here... I'm very comfortable being old time... The latest and greatest toys pull their share of the load though...

80+% of my work is cleaning up/repairing/finishing after others... Either adopting their style or blending theirs to mine for completion...
Also have a production side too and the bottom line matters... Power all the way....

just finished an apothecary having 840 drawers... Picked it up at the incomplete carcase to finish... The face frame almost had me whimpering and have had my fill of dovetails for a while... Started having dreams about them before I was finished... Why can't people think outta the red oak box???
Then there was the maple on maple on maple on maple on maple kitchen w/settee and maple wide plank flooring in old world method...
Or the walnut on walnut on walnut den...
But that's OK... the kitchen got painted several shades of blue, the floor tiled and the den became white within a week of completion... that was only the tip of the iceberg..

Sorry, had to rant.... I'll put my soap box away now...

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Stick486

· #25 · Jan 24, 2013

Sawdust Don said:
It seems, when machinist get old, they start woodworking.

I have all types of gages, and methods of calibration.
I can use this equipment to fine tune my woodworking machines, make fixtures to close tolerances, ect.

This is the main problem I encounter- the wood.
I have wood that is a hundred years old, been sitting in my shop for years, so, its about as normalized as it can get.

I can machine this wood to very close tolerances today, but it will not be the same the next day, and way out of tolerance next week.

I found its just not predictable, doesnt matter much what type of wood, even boards I resaw from the same beam, can behave differently- cup, twist, stretch, and shrink.

It seems the more cuts that is needed, adds to the distortion, that seems to begin even more rapidly. The worst for that is long box joints, I must get those together with in hours of making them.

I solved all my machine alignment problems, and finally bought a planer, that really is helping in getting my projects together much quicker, less time for distortion to set in.

Just from my observations, I can cut the wood accurately, but it does not stay that way very long.

Don

decide what tolerance works for you and stay there...
I like 1/64 which does a pretty good job of staying within a 1/32 parameter.... but as you noted, nothing seems to last... Achieving 1/128 on the spot is easy.. but it lasts after the fact for what, all of a minuet or less...
There is a reason why non- machinist rules and tapes are graduated in 1/16th's....

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Stick486

· #30 · Jan 26, 2013

monty.smith said:
Hi
Just a suggestion, so when I’m doing a project, no matter what i will not switch tools, say if I measure with one type of device I’ll stay with that device until project complete. I have about a hundred tape measures but the one i start with is the one that gets used throughout the whole project, same with squares, marking devices, what edge I’m marking and measuring from.

It helps me, I’ve noticed even with an old worn out tape measure that if there is an imperfection in the tape that imperfection caries through the whole project, then really is there and imperfection, of course this applies to most projects but not all.

unless you take the time to calibrate and verify measures, squares and anything else you have at your disposal... weed the non-performers, fix or get rid them or give them to somebody on your do not care fore list...

Remove or lower the possibilities for mistakes/errors...

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Stick486

· #39 · Jan 27, 2013 (Edited)

DaninVan said:
" I have an electric pencil sharpener right next to my miter saw"
Doesn't it damage your mechanical pencil?

would one at the battery charging station count???

and then there is are the colored pencils....
sometimes the marks from a regular pencil become invisible...
color coding helps too...

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