Almost finished apart from that %*#£ switch...

1584 Views 16 Replies 7 Participants Last post by mr happymoose, Apr 3, 2020

mr happymoose

Discussion Starter · Apr 1, 2020

Hi folks. Well, my router table build kind of stalled after Xmas due to a succession of health issues so I was only able to get little bits done. My current enforced isolation however (For various reason I fall into the high risk category for the damned virus so I'm part way through at least 12 weeks isolation, just as I'm starting to get back to normal :frown: ) has given me the opportunity to crack on with it and it's almost finished.

My biggest issue now is the switch. I bought this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07Q7NFPQQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which is a generic KJD17BD the same as the one that DesertRatTom recommended. I've wired it up according to the diagram on the side of the switch through a choc block as per the attached diagram. 'IN' is obviously power in and 'OUT' leads to a plug socket on the back of the router table which the router plugs into. At the moment, as the router is still in warranty I don't want to do anything that might void that which includes cutting off the moulded plug hence the plug socket. In the future I will wire the router straight in to the switch and rewire the plug socket so it's just a straight through extension socket.

As far as I can tell, everything should be good but, when I turn the router on it will only run as long as I hold the on button in. As soon as I let that go, the router turns off. I'm sure I saw a thread here regarding the same issue with this switch but stuffed if I can find it now.

If anyone has any advice as ever, it would be most gratefully received.

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Cherryville Chuck

· #2 · Apr 1, 2020 (Edited)

I don`t know which switch you have but I purchased a Powertec from Amazon and it was the same as yours, i.e. defective. I tried every possible combination of hooking it up and the electromagnet would not hold the contacts closed. As for cutting the plug off the end, no need. Run the switch wire to the hot contact of a standard plug like I did instead and just plug your router into that.

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mr happymoose

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 1, 2020

Cherryville Chuck said:
I don`t know which switch you have but I purchased a Powertec from Amazon and it was the same as yours, i.e. defective. I tried every possible combination of hooking it up and the electromagnet would not hold the contacts closed. As for cutting the plug off thened, no need. Run the switch wire to the hot contact of a standard plug like I did instead and just plug your router into that.

I already have the output from the switch running to a plug socket that the router is plugged in to. Rather depressing to hear about the switch, I was hoping I'd messed something up rather than a faulty switch, especially with the way things are at the moment.

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LeftFinger

· #4 · Apr 1, 2020

Make sure the A1 is energized as that engages the magnetic circuit. I have quite a few of that type of switch . just not that brand

mr happymoose

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 1, 2020

It would seem from what I've just been told elsewhere that I've misread the wiring diagram and that A1 should in fact be connected to 24, not 14 which is already connected internally. It's a bit late to be fiddling around with power tools here now so I'll have a look at it tomorrow.

Fingers crossed!!

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DesertRatTom

· #6 · Apr 2, 2020 (Edited)

British wiring and connectors are a mystery this side of the pond. You could take it to an electrician and find out what kind of connector you need to take the feed to an outlet that you can plug the router into. I'd not cut off the plug. If the switch has an open back as shown, then it probably needs to go into a box.

Did you draw that diagram or is is the one supplied with the switch? Something is missing. 13 and 23 are IN, 14 and 24 are OUT. To complete the circuit for 120v, there should be a single pole switch between 14 and 24 and 13 and 23 could be wired straight through. Or it could be a doble pole switch that closes both circuits, which would be required for 220-240v. The electro magnet would hold the two poles closed during operation.

However, I see no indication of the electromagnet or in particular, how it gets its power. An electromagnet must have both line and neutral. If it doesn't have power, it may start, but not stay on. Which is why I wondered about the absence of the power to the electromagnet. That sounds like the problem to me is no power to the electromagnet. Is there another diagram?

Sometimes there's an additional connector or a switch that may be concealed.

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mr happymoose

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 2, 2020

DesertRatTom said:
British wiring and connectors are a mystery this side of the pond. You could take it to an electrician and find out what kind of connector you need to take the feed to an outlet that you can plug the router into. I'd not cut off the plug. If the switch has an open back as shown, then it probably needs to go into a box.

Did you draw that diagram or is is the one supplied with the switch? Something is missing. 13 and 23 are IN, 14 and 24 are OUT. To complete the circuit for 120v, there should be a single pole switch between 14 and 24 and 13 and 23 could be wired straight through. Or it could be a doble pole switch that closes both circuits, which would be required for 220-240v. The electro magnet would hold the two poles closed during operation.

However, I see no indication of the electromagnet or in particular, how it gets its power. An electromagnet must have both line and neutral. If it doesn't have power, it may start, but not stay on. Which is why I wondered about the absence of the power to the electromagnet. That sounds like the problem to me is no power to the electromagnet. Is there another diagram?

Sometimes there's an additional connector or a switch that may be concealed.

I did draw the diagram Tom but it would now appear that I've mis-read the diagram on the switch and wired it wrong. A1 is already internally connected to 14 and I should have connected it to 24. I'm going to go and try that in a mo.

I have mounted the switch in a box and I'll bung up some finished pics on the original thread assuming this all works and I actually finish it :grin: Be warned, it's not a pretty sight :lol:

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Danman1957

· #8 · Apr 2, 2020

Darned switches !!!

I am also nearing completion of my R/T. I have been accumulating parts for it for several years. I recently opened the box for the Freud switch I bought, and found it to be a switch that is made to install on a table made from steel angles like several shop tables I own. Problem is it is not made to mount on a wooden panel. I guess I will attempt to modify it or the table. I like Chuck's idea of mounting it on the top and am considering it seriously.
Any suggestions ?

Dan

Biagio

· #9 · Apr 2, 2020

Jon,
Assuming that your ins and outs are correct, A1 should be connected to the Live In (13). In your block diagram it is connected to the Live-out. That won”t work. Neither will connecting it to 23, which is the neutral In. The neutral to the electromagnet is internally connected.
The switch is designed to release if the mains supply cuts out (No Volts Release), so you are not caught unawares should the mains come on again while you are fiddling with the cutting parts. So the electromagnet must be powered directly from the mains Live.
There is no advantage to cutting off the plug from the router cable - on the contrary, you may need to pull the route out for freehand use sometime. Leave well enough alone.
But give some consideration to where Chuck has mounted his switch (on the fence). I plan to move mine there.

Tom, yes our switches are double pole, switching live and neutral together.

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Biagio

· #10 · Apr 2, 2020

Jon, just make sure that your ins and outs are correct. Perhaps reproduce the diagram stamped on the side of the switch?

DaninVan

· #11 · Apr 2, 2020

"There is no advantage to cutting off the plug from the router cable - on the contrary, you may need to pull the route out for freehand use sometime. Leave well enough alone."
-Biagio

Amen to that! No advantages to hardwiring it into the switch, except saving a couple of bucks/pounds on components.

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DesertRatTom

· #12 · Apr 2, 2020

Looking forward to seeing the project. Glad you worked out the wiring. It forced me to think for the first time in awhile :wink:.

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mr happymoose

Discussion Starter · #13 · Apr 3, 2020

Danman1957 said:
Darned switches !!!

I am also nearing completion of my R/T. I have been accumulating parts for it for several years. I recently opened the box for the Freud switch I bought, and found it to be a switch that is made to install on a table made from steel angles like several shop tables I own. Problem is it is not made to mount on a wooden panel. I guess I will attempt to modify it or the table. I like Chuck's idea of mounting it on the top and am considering it seriously.
Any suggestions ?

Dan

That sounds kind of similar to my switch. I ended up using a small Really Useful Box to house the switch and cut a couple of brackets out of an old piece of aluminium casing I had. The box fitted really well and I would definitely say something similar is worth looking at. I find that I can very comfortably hit the paddle with my knee should something go wrong and I don't want to let go.

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mr happymoose

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 3, 2020

Biagio said:
Jon, just make sure that your ins and outs are correct. Perhaps reproduce the diagram stamped on the side of the switch?

Biagio said:
Jon,
Assuming that your ins and outs are correct, A1 should be connected to the Live In (13). In your block diagram it is connected to the Live-out. That won”t work. Neither will connecting it to 23, which is the neutral In. The neutral to the electromagnet is internally connected.
The switch is designed to release if the mains supply cuts out (No Volts Release), so you are not caught unawares should the mains come on again while you are fiddling with the cutting parts. So the electromagnet must be powered directly from the mains Live.
There is no advantage to cutting off the plug from the router cable - on the contrary, you may need to pull the route out for freehand use sometime. Leave well enough alone.
But give some consideration to where Chuck has mounted his switch (on the fence). I plan to move mine there.

Tom, yes our switches are double pole, switching live and neutral together.

As it turned out, I had indeed misunderstood the diagram on the side of the switch. A1 is in fact internally connected to 14 and should have been externally connected to 24 instead. I've done that now and am happy to report that all is good :grin:

DaninVan said:
"There is no advantage to cutting off the plug from the router cable - on the contrary, you may need to pull the route out for freehand use sometime. Leave well enough alone."
-Biagio

Amen to that! No advantages to hardwiring it into the switch, except saving a couple of bucks/pounds on components.

Yeah, I've come to the same conclusion. It'll be rare that I'll take this router off the table to use, but you can bet that the day after I cut the plug off, I'll need to use it freehand!!

The plug stays :grin:

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mr happymoose

Discussion Starter · #15 · Apr 3, 2020

DesertRatTom said:
Looking forward to seeing the project. Glad you worked out the wiring. It forced me to think for the first time in awhile :wink:.

Some finished pics up on the original thread. Don't look too closely at it though :grin:

Cherryville Chuck

· #16 · Apr 3, 2020

I'm glad you got yours working Jon. I tried every combination possible with mine even to the point of adding shunts across to the extra terminals in case both ins and both outs needed to be used. Then I read in Amazons reviews that a small but not insignificant percentage is defective. I was able to find a box that it fit. I think it was the same plastic waterproof box I used for the switch I have now.

mr happymoose

Discussion Starter · #17 · Apr 3, 2020

Cherryville Chuck said:
I'm glad you got yours working Jon. I tried every combination possible with mine even to the point of adding shunts across to the extra terminals in case both ins and both outs needed to be used. Then I read in Amazons reviews that a small but not insignificant percentage is defective. I was able to find a box that it fit. I think it was the same plastic waterproof box I used for the switch I have now.

I think that that's always a gamble with these generic Chinese parts. I checked the reviews of the seller that I ordered this one from as well as the reviews of the switch it's self. The switch was made by Sodial, a company I've always had good results from in the past and the seller had some good reviews for customer service so I figured if it did go down the drain I'd at least be able to get a refund. When the switch wouldn't work I must admit my first conclusion was to fear the worst rather than any chance that I might possible have made a mistake LOL!!

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