[cocobolo1]

I have made several segmented drum hoops of all sizes. I use 40 or 60 grit sanding discs on an angle grinder, then ROS for the finish sanding.

Hello Michael. I have seen the segmented hoops and they really do look quite spectacular. My first thought was to use an ROS as you do, but the amount of wood to be removed I think would be too much. Better to use some sort of cutting system...e.g. router.

I forgot to mention in my last post that I do not yet own a lathe, had to sell my last one when I moved away from Ruxton Island. However, it looks like I might be picking one up tomorrow.

Only has a 12" swing, but I will see what I can do about raising that with some metal blocks. Even if I only used it to turn the drum by hand, that would be OK. I should be able to rig up the guide rails in conjunction with the lathe. I think it is 42" between centres, and the drum is 30" tall, so there should be room.

 

[cocobolo1]

I'm still going with the piece of art p.o.v.
I was also wondering about the internal shape? It must be pretty uneven(?).

The inside is the same as the outside, only smaller. So yes, it's pretty bumpy. Looks kinda neat though. :smile:

 

[neville9999]

Keith,
I agree with Neville in that you would have to make a frame similar to a lathe so it could be rotated slowly by hand, either by crank or a wheel attached the end. My first thought was to attach the frame so it could be hung as a pendulum over a tablesaw to rough it to shape by spinning and swinging, but that would take some serious stabilizing. If you started with a frame that it could rotate on, and made a curved pair of rails for a router to follow, then when it's roughed down you might be able to adapt the curved rails to hold a belt sander or disk sander to further refine the finish. Nice challenge!

Gary thanks for the comment, if the frame was stiff enough then the drum wold rotate truly, the amount of work you put into any Jigs construction depend on how much you will use them or how good a job you want to do so if the jig is made very well then both things will happen, the drum will turn smoothly and the cuts will be very clean, as long as you are patient and do light cuts, that's the U frame, the arch is harder. you need a rise and fall system at both ends, if the jig was not going to be used that much then this could be held in place with a clamp to the post, just loosen it a little and then tap it down then tighten the clamp, it you wanted to use it a lot then more work could be done so that the ends of the arch went down a threaded rod, the real trick here is the router sled and arch, that has to be made very well as the router would vibrate and the more that it did move under load then the less perfect the cut would be, I wold attach the router box to the sled with a tilting plate so that the angle of the cut could be varied, doing that would be very easy, I would make the arch as a pair of rails that were held apart by the same thickness as the end posts and that way there would be two flat plates that straddle the post at each end and the cutter has to just hang down far enough below the sled to do the cuts, once that arch was done then there are a few ways to make the sled in any regard then after the turns and cuts were done I would use a compass plane to clean it up, a razor sharp blade and the curved base set correctly should get a very good finish, this is just a thought exercise for me, I can see that this idea will work, with all the work that did get put into the drum then more work will be needed to get the outside cut, the good thing is that only the final cuts really matter as all the rest are just to get rid of the waste material so if the arch and the sled are not correct then there is plenty of time to change them and get that so it does cut smoothly, this can work, any free hand method will result in an imperfect drum, it depends on how perfect the drum needs to be, I am sure that I could make a Router Lathe that would turn a near perfect drum, I did think about this one so much that the plan was perfect before I started making it I can't do it as I have three Router Lathe of my own to build, one is nearly done, two more to go but a rotating drum router lathe could be made without that much effort. If the Lathe is stiff and the rotation slow then you would get perfectly circular cuts, if you make the router box so that the cutter can tilt from side to side then you could change the angle of the cut as you need to and improve the final cut, either way the more work that got put into the jig then the less clean up would be needed. N

 

[neville9999]

G'day Neville. You are the one who is entirely to blame for me joining this forum. When I did my searches on Mr. Google, your thread on your current lathe building project came up. Have you not received the metal parts yet that you are waiting for? Lots of us are awaiting the final completion of your lathe.

I'm surprised that a man of your considerable talent does not weld. It's actually pretty easy with oxy-acetylene, and you can even do stainless steel with gas. I know that most people think you need to use tig, but gas works especially if you have one of the Dillon Mk.111 welders.

Now, as far as the number of pieces in each segment goes, I do realize that more pieces in each layer would work much better. I will work out the lengths for 12 pieces per layer to see what the difference would be. It currently uses just eight per layer.

That would bump the glue-up to 540 pieces...not sure that I want to do that.

Now, as far as the actual shape of the router lathe goes, I already made up a laminated piece to the shape that I wanted. I would need to make up two wider pieces with exactly the same shape in order to let the router be guided to the proper profile.

I think I can solve the tipping problem by using arborite to keep the router on an even keel. Actually make a piece which would fit under the router base and on to the top of the two laminated sections and stick a narrow strip of arboreta under the ends.

I have built telescopes in the past, and we use a similar system to allow the 'scopes to pivot on. Almost no drag doing that, so it should make for an easy slide. I'll give that some more thought to improve upon the basic idea before I start on the actual construction.

I think it is entirely unfair that you have such gorgeous weather down your way while we are just now getting to be buried in our usual winter snow.

Thank you for your insight Neville, I'm sure we will be conversing much more in the future.

First it's Doctor Goggle not Mister Google and I am a bit surprised that you found me via him. I want it finished soon too but its Christmas and I had to find a replacement machinist who agreed to do it but he had other work he had to do first, so I have to wait until he can, it would be totally unreasonable for me who he did not know, to get in front of his normal clients who pay him real money, I have to wait, I think I could weld OK, I could do a course to get the basics correct, TIG/MIG is best but I don't have any welding gear and I won't buy any as welding for me is only needed every now and then and I am so busy that I just can't find the time, this weld is stainless steel and I need that done very well so not for any beginner to do, the machinist is also doing some threading and drilling index holes and I know how to do that but no metal lathe here, I do need a frame welded to be a large steady rest for my VL175, if you see my workshop at this minute then I don't have space for welding gear, I think I have explained my concept very well, there will be details to sort out, start with the frame and get that done while you think about the rest, this will not be that hard to do. I have to add that there are details about my Lathe that are commercially sensitive, no lathe like this has ever been made before, I am showing all the construction but I won't be showing it all, I will show the broad picture of it, some details will not get shown, N

 

[neville9999]

G'day Neville. You are the one who is entirely to blame for me joining this forum. When I did my searches on Mr. Google, your thread on your current lathe building project came up. Have you not received the metal parts yet that you are waiting for? Lots of us are awaiting the final completion of your lathe.

I'm surprised that a man of your considerable talent does not weld. It's actually pretty easy with oxy-acetylene, and you can even do stainless steel with gas. I know that most people think you need to use tig, but gas works especially if you have one of the Dillon Mk.111 welders.

Now, as far as the number of pieces in each segment goes, I do realize that more pieces in each layer would work much better. I will work out the lengths for 12 pieces per layer to see what the difference would be. It currently uses just eight per layer.

That would bump the glue-up to 540 pieces...not sure that I want to do that.

Now, as far as the actual shape of the router lathe goes, I already made up a laminated piece to the shape that I wanted. I would need to make up two wider pieces with exactly the same shape in order to let the router be guided to the proper profile.

I think I can solve the tipping problem by using arborite to keep the router on an even keel. Actually make a piece which would fit under the router base and on to the top of the two laminated sections and stick a narrow strip of arboreta under the ends.

I have built telescopes in the past, and we use a similar system to allow the 'scopes to pivot on. Almost no drag doing that, so it should make for an easy slide. I'll give that some more thought to improve upon the basic idea before I start on the actual construction.

I think it is entirely unfair that you have such gorgeous weather down your way while we are just now getting to be buried in our usual winter snow.

Thank you for your insight Neville, I'm sure we will be conversing much more in the future.

I should add that my VL175 is not just a pretty machine, it is that but not just that, I intend to use it to make segmented bowls/urns, so I have done a lot of thinking about making segmented rings, you make a Table saw sled that has a fixed fence, you use a 120 tooth blade, you make wedge blocks that clamp to the sled to give you the correct angle for what ever ring you want, you change the angle by changing the wedge block so you make one of them for all the different numbers, 7,8,9,10,11,12,13..... if the block does not give you the correct angle for that number of segments then you adjust the block until it does, making segmented rings does not have to be a big deal, still that for an entirely new post, I think I will call it neville9999's segmented ring project. N

 

[cocobolo1]

Hello again Neville:

"First it's Doctor Goggle not Mister Google and I am a bit surprised that you found me via him."

Well, here I go again, I didn't realize how illiterate I must have been. Thank goodness I joined this forum!

Should I ever get this drum into any kind of reasonable shape, then I expect to make perhaps 10 or so all together. So I think, in the long run, that it would be well worth my time to make a permanent type jig for the purpose. You never know when some unsuspecting soul might ask me to build one.

I will use all stainless hardware. Hopefully, I will be able to weld everything up along the lines of that made by Moperc Drums in Quebec. It's actually quite straight forward, one just needs to be patient.

I haven't mentioned yet that I have also glued up a few other shells, but they are of the snare/tom type. I think the jig for that will be a whole lot simpler. With a bit of luck I might be able to do both the inner and outer shaping with the router.

 

[cocobolo1]

Neville, instead of a series of blocks, why not make up an adjustable sliding clamp. I'm not quite sure how to explain this, but when I needed to make up a whole lot of tapered boards some time ago, I used this adjustable taper jig. Works well and can be altered to just about any angle with considerable accuracy.

"if the block does not give you the correct angle for that number of segments then you adjust the block until it does, making segmented rings does not have to be a big deal, still that for an entirely new post, I think I will call it neville9999's segmented ring project. N"

 

[cocobolo1]

For what it's worth, here are three of the new batch of shells which will need to get routed down.

I think the setup for these will be far less complicated.

 

[neville9999]

Hello again Neville:

"First it's Doctor Goggle not Mister Google and I am a bit surprised that you found me via him."

Well, here I go again, I didn't realize how illiterate I must have been. Thank goodness I joined this forum!

Should I ever get this drum into any kind of reasonable shape, then I expect to make perhaps 10 or so all together. So I think, in the long run, that it would be well worth my time to make a permanent type jig for the purpose. You never know when some unsuspecting soul might ask me to build one.

I will use all stainless hardware. Hopefully, I will be able to weld everything up along the lines of that made by Moperc Drums in Quebec. It's actually quite straight forward, one just needs to be patient.

I haven't mentioned yet that I have also glued up a few other shells, but they are of the snare/tom type. I think the jig for that will be a whole lot simpler. With a bit of luck I might be able to do both the inner and outer shaping with the router.

[[/I]

If you do intend tom make more of them then make a very good Router Lathe. The better it is then the better it will work, the less vibration to the cuts then the less hand finishing will be needed. N

 

[neville9999]

Neville, instead of a series of blocks, why not make up an adjustable sliding clamp. I'm not quite sure how to explain this, but when I needed to make up a whole lot of tapered boards some time ago, I used this adjustable taper jig. Works well and can be altered to just about any angle with considerable accuracy.

"if the block does not give you the correct angle for that number of segments then you adjust the block until it does, making segmented rings does not have to be a big deal, still that for an entirely new post, I think I will call it neville9999's segmented ring project. N"

I think you need a simple sled with a fixed fence, then using fixed blocks with the correct angle then there is not adjusting anything, when you want top make a 9segmented ring then all you do it get the 9 block and clamp it down, then cut all of the 9 pieces, as the angle is already correct then all you have to think about is how long the 9 pieces will be cut, when I am ready then I will start a whole new thread about segmented rings. N

 

[cocobolo1]

[[/I]

If you do intend tom make more of them then make a very good Router Lathe. The better it is then the better it will work, the less vibration to the cuts then the less hand finishing will be needed. N

I shall take your advice Neville, and make it as good as I'm able.

 

[cocobolo1]

I think you need a simple sled with a fixed fence, then using fixed blocks with the correct angle then there is not adjusting anything, when you want top make a 9segmented ring then all you do it get the 9 block and clamp it down, then cut all of the 9 pieces, as the angle is already correct then all you have to think about is how long the 9 pieces will be cut, when I am ready then I will start a whole new thread about segmented rings. N

It would be a certainty that which ever block I wanted would go AWOL. Never fails.

Happy new year Neville.

 

[DaninVan]

A little conga tribute to bring in the New Year, eh?

 

[cocobolo1]

She makes a surprisingly good conguero.

Thanks for that and Happy New Year.

 

[cocobolo1]

Note to CHERRYVILLE CHUCK.

I had no idea where Cherryville was, so I just checked it out on Mr. Google (apologies to Neville here).

I see you are close to Vernon and not that far from Kelowna.

Have you ever been to Reimer Hardwoods in Kelowna? I used to buy from the store in Abbotsford decades ago when I lived in Aldergrove. Just wondering if you know what sort of stock they keep in Kelowna.

If I ever get this drum thing sorted out I'd like to try some decent hardwood to make a few from.

Thanks.

 

[DaninVan]

Hey, Keith; further to that grinder accessory link, here's a couple of quick vids of the accessory and another option in action...
Arbortech Woodworking | Woodworking
TURBOPlane
Industrial Woodcarver Prokit
Seems a lot more controllable than the chain type(?).

 

[neville9999]

With respect to all the comments my opinion is that the only way you get a perfect finish on the drum is to rotate it under a router cutter and then finish it by hand, it could also be done by hand but that would be far more time consuming and no two drums would be the same, the thing is that if you wanted to make many drums and that they would all be the same the a jig to do the cutting is the only way, I would make the rings with more segments to reduce the high to low gap, then rotate it under a curved jig, its an interesting project. N

 

[cocobolo1]

Hey, Keith; further to that grinder accessory link, here's a couple of quick vids of the accessory and another option in action...
Arbortech Woodworking | Woodworking
TURBOPlane
Industrial Woodcarver Prokit
Seems a lot more controllable than the chain type(?).

Thanks Dan. There's definitely a knack to using the Lancelot. But it's like most things, once you get the hang of it it's not so bad.

Only trouble is, one small slip and it makes a big mess.

 

[cocobolo1]

With respect to all the comments my opinion is that the only way you get a perfect finish on the drum is to rotate it under a router cutter and then finish it by hand, it could also be done by hand but that wold be far more time consuming and no two drums wold be the same, the thing is that if you wanted to make many drums and that they would all be the same, then I would make the rings with more segments to reduce the high to low gap, then rotate it under a curved jig, its an interesting project. N

Yes, I agree with you Neville.

This was put together to find the pitfalls that I thought I would inevitably encounter. And the number of segments was probably the biggest pitfall.

Not only that, but using red cedar has made it essentially impossible to turn on a lathe. I knew this would be the case going in, which is why I came here in the first place, to find out about making a router lathe.

Now that I have something to go on...I will go on. :laugh2:

 

[neville9999]

Yes, I agree with you Neville.

This was put together to find the pitfalls that I thought I would inevitably encounter. And the number of segments was probably the biggest pitfall.

Not only that, but using red cedar has made it essentially impossible to turn on a lathe. I knew this would be the case going in, which is why I came here in the first place, to find out about making a router lathe.

Now that I have something to go on...I will go on. :laugh2:

Keith 1350 odd posts ago, I too came here to learn about Router Lathes, I have a big debt to the Forum and to Dick in IA, It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that no one Router Lathe will do every job you want done on a Router Lathe and some jobs are just too hard so I gave my latest Lathe a lot of thought before I started to make it, and I in fact also had to buy a Cue Lathe from the USA at considerable cost for some parts of my Cue Making as some problems could not be solved with a Router Lathe. You have to design and make it to do the job at hand, that's the facts, I have been thinking about your project and were I to do these drums then I would do things differently. I would stave the drum instead of segment it, I would make a Router Lathe to trim the staves to size, The good news for you is that your Router Lathe will work regardless of staves or segments, the cut is the same. I hope you used the best adhesive you could buy, Tightbond2/3 or Urea Formaldehyde type glues, My opinion also is that there is no reason why your drum cannot be made, and made again. My Niece is in Canada right now, I told her that Canadians are strange but also our lost cousins so she should be kind to them. N