*bogglement to the 10th!*

Mascarasnake; you are being royally rodgered. Plywood, any plywood, is shipped flat on pallets, and kept dry. If it's warped, don't accept it.
Your supplier is supposed to be on your side of this issue, not telling you to put your complaint where the sun don't shine.
It's either being shipped incorrectly...likely to save space on the truck, or the warehouse is mishandling it. In any case not your problem!
What Grade of BB are you ordering? The surface filling is highly suspicious; is it only on the back face?
Hardwood Plywood and Veneer Association

 

Hmmm...I only have access to 5x5 foot pieces. The lumber yard doesn't sell 4x8 footers. And I never have to fill anything, and no worries about warping.

I know it sounds dumb, but are you sure you are buying Baltic Birch, or Russian Birch? It should be multi ply made from birch w/no voids. Just asking.

I am wondering if the seller is passing off some kind of Chinese made crap marketed as BB.

Post some close up pics of what you have.
Mike

1/2 inch BB drawers.

 

AFAIK for that price you should get solid plys, no filled voids and it should be flat and solid. Sounds like you have veneered ply or worse still, shuttering ply. Veneered usually has a thin veneer of a dark red/brown wood on either side, shuttering ply is non-veneered and usually has the filled voids, ideal for panelling a workshop and other shop related stuff, but not for cabinets.

 

Welcome to the forum MS.

 

I have never had a warping problem with true 5'X5' BBP. Even the 4'X8' Russian birch which seems to have softer inner plys and small voids is of a sufficient grade that it doesn't warp either. Neither has face plugs ,or edge filling. I use 1/2", 5/8", 3/4" thick sheets and never had a complaint.

The USA birch is crap, it has very large soft inner plys and lots of voids. The inner plys are not butted together,they are over lapped and pressed creating a hump and a void.the edges are smeared with filler that falls out when it is cut. they are warped in all directions and not truly square sheets. The faces are so thin that they are sanded thru in spots where the inner plys cause humps, and have dimples where the faces have voids under and the face plyis sunk in. Not worth buying for anything but maybe crating.

I think you are getting ripped off big time with that plywood they are selling you for BBP.
Herb

 

The USA birch is crap, it has very large soft inner plys and lots of voids. The inner plys are not butted together,they are over lapped and pressed creating a hump and a void.the edges are smeared with filler that falls out when it is cut. they are warped in all directions and not truly square sheets. The faces are so thin that they are sanded thru in spots where the inner plys cause humps, and have dimples where the faces have voids under and the face plyis sunk in. Not worth buying for anything but maybe crating.

Herb

This crap is all I've been able to find at all the places around me. It's probably fine for construction sheathing and such, but if you actually want to build stuff with it, it's a total waste of time. I guess I'm going to hit up the smaller specialty yards because the big ones only seem to carry construction grade crap anymore.

 

What MT Stringer said.

HJ

 

First, welcome to the forum.

I have to agree with everyone here. You are being ripped off by your supplier. Baltic or Russian Birch is multi ply and high grade. Although it can come in a variety of sizes it is usually in 5' X 5' sheets for general uses. If you are getting 4' x 8' sheets, although it can come in this size, it is probably not Baltic Birch, but Birch Plywood. There is a difference. Birch plywood is inferior to the BB in all ways.

I would find a different supplier. I know that can be difficult, but since you are buying approximately a sheet a week, then any supplier would probably order a pallet and sell it to you a piece at a time if he knows he's not getting stuck with it.

Drop kick your present supplier and find one who will work with you and provide some customer service.

Bill

 

Count the plys , My 1/2" BBP has 9 plys, including the face plys, the 3/4 russian birch has 13 plys counting the face plys.

Here are some pictures,(Not too clear) first the 1/2", then the 3/4".

Herb

 

British currency...#55 :
So, about $110Cdn or $84US today.

 

Thanks for the replies- I was sitting on my arse thinking 'I wonder when I might get a reply' thinking Id see "X replied to yr thread" in my hotmail.

I have a feeling too Im being rogered by my supplier (whom Ive have a trade account with for 7 years..). The thing is they have my odd sheet of russian birch ply (as its deemed by them) delivered in a stack of other 8'x4' boards/ sheets etc: they cant be expected to pull it out, check it, put it back again and call their supplier saying it is, again, warped. Can they? should they?

Fwiw it is 9mm. Its 7-ply layers, the faces a light birch colour, as you'd expect. Id say there are consistantly 20 or so ('butterfly-sized odd shaped filler things in the top layer' as I call them/ I dont know the term/ same birch colour) in the 8'x4' sheet evenly spaced apart. No voids, the actual quality of it regardless of the filler things & the damn bow/ warp.. is pretty good: as Id expect birch ply to be.

It seems to me that its being stored prior to it being delivered to my supplier (who has a spotless, clean & dry horizontal rack as good as youd want to find) incorrectly. It seems tho Im no expert hence my Q here, that moisture has been introduced to it.

The actual supplier (who supply my local place) Co is called Timbmet. Ive had a word at my place who got onto them when I was there straight off for me when I queried the first bad one (implying good relations with me, as Ive been used to from my supplier Im on 1st name terms with all 3 of them). Timbmet said "its just the tension of the top layer, it will undo once its cut, its normal" they said to me on the phone in my local place's office. I strongly said, "no I cut it regularly & it does -not- unwarp whatsoever etc etc". So we were at loggerheads. My chap asked them to replace it (a week's wait/ out of some work while I waited) & the replacement better.. but still warped.

One sheet I had was so bad there was such a strong "wibble" the whole 4' sq corner of the sheet I had to scrap with this wibble in. This wibble looked so strong & permanent I doubt moisture was to blame.. just mfd extremely badly, maybe the drying/ layer/ glue process was simply hurried.

Thing is I have -no- alternative supplier anywhere near me, only alternative ply is chinese with some voids and poor quality inner layers (& even if stright when I buy it.. warps dreadfully once its cut into smaller sections: I have one 6" x 3' panel right near me clamped so unfeasably tight to try and unbend it I could hear it cracking. I have to use it tho. I have nothing else to use.

Thanks MS.

 

I had some shuttering ply delivered which was bowed about 6 inches across the 8' length. Sent it back. They said the pallet center supports had broken and it had sagged in the centre. Not sure why they didn't move it onto alternate storage pallet but hey, this is England :frown:

 

I've found some decent 4x8 ply at Lowes, but it still has voids. I recently bought a sheet of maple veneered 3/4 at HD that was filled with narrow strips of seriously crappy wood and a ton of glue. Looked nice until you cut it. Not sure if I can use it for anything at all. 5x5 Baltic Birch is only to be found at a lumber yard, or by a cabinet maker who will sell you some. Its a 120 mile round trip to get some for me, but the difference is amazing.

 

Its a bit difficult to guage the info from US folks as theirs might be entirely different in terms of what quality to expect (perhaps far higher than us bozos in UK who never complain/ suck it, then wonder why we seemingly continually get crappy service &/or products). Im really after some info from UK folks who use baltic birch, or birch ply, or russian birch.. or whatever the heck its called.

What are these odd shaped filler areas? I read what theyre called, but cant find the www page again. The'ye about 4"sq and wavy 2 sides, oval on other sides. All uniformly same shape.

Why do they occur/ what are they for? or any info on these things.. Im not happy with them whatsoever as they show in the sections even after I paint the face black, & look dreadful tbh. Some sheets had just a few, but now they seem so frequent I had 20 in the last sheet, on both sides too.

I just dont know what to expect you see on buying a sheet. I have nothing to compare it to, no-one I know who could help, rarely Ive even heard of anyone using baltic birch ply in my whole life.

Thanks all MS

 

@MascaraSnake

If you don't have this information, you as well as some of the newer members, might find the attached PDF's useful.

 

Thanks for the info schnew.. some useful stuff there for sure.

 

Welcome to the Forum Mascara Snake.
Don't know where you live but its time to search out a new supply for your wood. I am sure you can Do a web search to find a reliable supply for your needs. You should never have to settle for the kind of crap wood you described. Is wood really that scarce where you live! I thought we were getting pretty poor quality right here in Canada since most of the really good product is exported to the rest of the world. I just keep searching until I find something worth the money, but a hobbyist can afford the time. I really do hope you can find some better supply.

 

Thanks, MS; that's good follow up info. Yeh, I can see why you wouldn't want to just walk away from your primary supplier, but...
Are there any commercial millwork or cabinet makers anywhere near you? Perhaps a drop-in social call might be in order?

Please fill out your profile a bit. It's very confusing ...you're talking in #'s but the little info field says you're in the US?
We'll have to just nickname you 'Rodger'...

 

Hi thanks for the info chaps. Trouble is I just dont know what to expect. Im in UK. Its 9mm birch ply fwiw.

I really need info from folks here in UK, who know what is reasonable to expect. Reading what you guys get by default oover in N. america doesn tell me any info tbh: I have a feeling over there you might have far better quality stock available, us brits putting up with crap so often (service &/ or products) in our chipper stiff-upper-lip way we just expect crap. You guys over the pond simply wouldnt do with it, and demand better.

Can anyone identify what Im talking about re. the filler areas? there's a term for them I read, but I cant find the www page again. I cannot put up with having 20 of these evenly spaced butterfly-looking things across each side of an already dreadfully warped sheet.

I have found somewhere else close on the phone, but chances are they will be getting it from the same Timbmet Co in bristol, who I called their head office.. & they couldnt give a fk about my concern "we dont make it, so what can I do?". I put the phone down on them so annoyed I was.

So my local merchants says "what can I do? Ive got this sheet in for you.. we just get it in from X".
So I call X "its how we sell it, the warp is tension/ just cut it & it flattens". Bollocks it does.
So I call their head office "we dont make it, we get it from Y so what can I do?".

This is typical modern fkin england. & I hate the place. MS

 

Rodger schmodger. Btw Im not in US as it says I am.

 

I dont know what to expect from here in UK, thats what I want to find out. It might be completely different in terms of quality to expect from what you guys in N. America are used to; as we so often put up with such crap you just wouldnt: service, products whatever it is.

I need to hear from anyone in UK who can help really, as much as I appreciate the replies.

Can someone tell me what the name of these odd splayed-butterfly filler areas I keep seeing? i read they have a specific name but I cant find the www page again. I cannot put up with these showing thru even after painting sections of this damn ply- they look dreadful & cheap. tbh it looks like seconds-quality Im receiving, the frequency of these damn fill areas increacing to 20 evenly-spaced across the last sheet.. on both sides/ 40 or so in total.

Thank MS

 

I know you're not, but others probably haven't noticed the pound sterling comment...that's what gave it away.

1) fill out a bit of info in the 'Profile'
---click on the Mascarasnake name. it should open up some options, one of them being the profile thing.
---make sure that you're logged in. If you don't check the 'keep me logged in' option it'll log you out when leave. Then it won't recognize you when you come back.
2) most of the members do a bit about their woodworking experience, tool crib, shop, and a very general geographic location; Wales, for instance.

 

Yup thanks, I did just find where to change my location Ive just seen was default as US- prob why the replies assuming I was US.

 

"Butterfly filler areas".. anyone?

 

You got me. Goat any pictures you can post? Closeups would be nice.

 

MS; Angie ('Vindaloo') might be able to give you better info re your side of the pond.
Router Forums - View Profile: vindaloo

 

I did answer but got ignored, hey, what a female know anyway 0

 

Hi- thanks for that info. Jigsaw pieces is a good term.

I think Im being sold C grade stuff (or whatever it might be BB/BB BB/CC means nothing to me.. Ive no idea what B or C stands for let alone "BB").. and paying A grade prices, being told its better than it is as they might cotton on to fact that i dont know the difference/ have no experience in the difference in grades.

Also having "X number of patches allowed" is totally useless info unless its stated what size is the eg in Q. 6 patches per 12sq inches? 6 patches per 12sq feet? 120sq'?

 

BB would be good both sides for plywood. That's what the designations are.
BC sanded plywood is stuff you would put on a sub floor deck or make shelves out of. The B side would be the best and the C side would have some knots or voids.

I think the best I have purchased was A2 veneer grade walnut 3/4 inch - $136.00 US for 4x8 sheet. Basically, that grade is imperfection free on both sides.

That is what I used for the liquor cabinet.

 

Angie; I always listen to you!!!