I think that the English started using the bench dogs and they made theirs 20mm. When we started making bench dogs we made ours 3/4" or 19mm. You can buy 200mm dogs at a place called "Lee Valley" in Canada and they will ship them to you.

 

Don't think it was the English, it was the Festool company. Their MFT uses 20mm holes, and it's quite a handy work surface. There are various jigs out there to help create perfectly spaced holes if you want to make your own top (Paulk is one such example).

If you're using the dogs as intended on an MFT there's no much chance of hitting them. I mean, sure, anything done wrong can break something, but this is true of any tool. I'd MUCH rather have the accuracy of the machined metal dogs for use as a reference straight edge, or even several angles with the right stepping of dogs.

One downside to a top full of holes is it means little stuff can fall through the holes if you're using the top for something other than making cuts. To that end I found it useful to make some 3D-printed caps that plug into the holes. I use 4 of these and a sheet of butcher paper to give me a clean, disposable and hole-free surface when I need to paint, glue-up or assemble stuff.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2075639

Wouldn't be anything preventing from making the plugs taller for use as a dog, but the metal ones are so much more stable/secure.

 

Thanks, Don, but I intend to make my own, custom set of dogs and fitting attachments. Hence my first question.

Although, the more I think about it, the more I'm sure that someone, at some point just said "let's make them 20mm", without any deeper thought behind it.

 

I'm a great fan of making something rather than buying, when I can. That size hole may have even been because whoever only had a 3/4" bit. :grin: I don't know, but I would think that having the length a bit more than the top thickness would be preferred - you can always cut one or two the same thickness and see. Wait, now that I think on it a second, I would say yes, longer, if you have short you are limited by the thickness of your work, so I would go for as much as 12" - some is good, more is better, too much is just enough. You have 5/8" pipe, I would say use it. Just some pictures later please.

 

This is true, too long is always better than too short. I'm not sure if I understood you correctly (as in, assuming that if the pipe is longer, it can protrude more from the top's surface). I had something else in mind.

I'm quite sure you're more than familiar with this design (although it's only a mockup I just made). The idea is that the the pipe has got a threaded insert, and with this in mind, I can cook up literally any kind of attachment I wish, and just fasten it to the pipe. This being said, I might want to have them longer, as I just realised I could turn them around, use a couple of washers, a threaded rod and turn those into clamps. This is getting more exciting by the minute! Of course, I'll make sure to show them to you, once I'm done.

 

"This is getting more exciting by the minute! "
-Jerry

Used to be women...now it's dogs. Man, the years are just slipping by.

 

Why not both?

 

Too much effort.

 

I say it's your work bench. Do what works for you. Trial and error=experience! :grin:

 

Don't, and I mean DO NOT make your benchdogs out of metal - at least the bits that stick up above the surface of the bench. You will live to regret it if you do.

 

Leaves marks on the material being held I’m assuming?

 

Isn't the Parf Dogs made in England made from metal? I am assuming they are good bench dogs.

 

soft metal...

 

I made mine from eucalyptus single piece - very strong & hard but not enough to put a big dent in your cutting edge on the chisel/plane should you happen to clip the benchdogs. Accidents do happen. I never knocked a glass over in 40 years .... and then I knocked over 3 in a couple of months.

Don't fancy spending a couple of hours regrinding and honing a blade if I don't have to. YMMV - obviously.

 

I used a dowel and a piece of pecan firewood which I resawed on the bandsaw to make my "T"s. The dowel is a little too big so I drilled the correct size hole in a steel plate. I added a few notches to act as knives. I took an electric drill and drilled the dowel through the steel plate which cut it down to the perfect size.

 

Dogs? Women? Discretion forces me to keep quiet here.

 

Great Britain and metrification:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom

GB and metric bench dogs have been mentioned a few times in this thread. Clearly at some point, likely since 1960+, somebody introduced the metric dog to you Brits. What was the size prior to that? I'm guessing they were non standard, but the likely winner was the 3/4" version. Just guessing, but most woodworkers probably made their own, especially post-War. (Not a lot of spare cash floating around in the 40's and 50's.)

 

Clearly at some point, likely since 1960+, somebody introduced the metric dog to you Brits. What was the size prior to that? I'm guessing they were non standard, but the likely winner was the 3/4" version....

Read on and see my comments below to explain the situation.

I think that the English started using the bench dogs and they made theirs 20mm. When we started making bench dogs we made ours 3/4" or 19mm.

Thanks for blaming the English :wink:, and BTW you guys still don't do metric - 20mm is NOT and never will be 3/4in, except maybe in Detroit :sarcastic:. In fact, because traditional English carpentry benches don't have dogs at all (we tend to use hold downs, disappearing bench stops, pinch cramps, deadmen or even just nail blocks onto the tops for use with wedges because our benches have very deep front aprons) and we traditionally didn't use an end vice, so I don't think it was us at all. I can well remember Lervad bringing the first Scandinavian benches (with rows of dog holes in the top and end vices) into the UK in the 1960s(?), but the dog holes on those were rectangular. Prior to those benches we didn't often see that type of bench in the UK, hence no dogs. The best known instance of a 20mm dog hole which I can think of is the Festool multi-function table (MFT/3) and its' predecessors.

That most certainly does use a grid of 20mm holes (and is German) although the idea has been taken up by people such as Peter Parfitt and Axminster Power Tool and is spreading. Probably why if you are in Europe, like the OP, 20mm would be a better idea than 3/4in

 

Jerry aluminum can leave black marks on wood. The Lee Valley ones are brass and they work well but not particularly cheap.

Many of the traditional work benches had rectangular holes and the dogs were wooden. It's still easy to make that style if you do it before you laminate your boards together. By the way, the Lee Valley dogs have a 2* negative slope on the faces to help wedge your work down onto the bench. If you make wooden dogs then it would be a good idea to do that to them as well.

 

This is already accounted for; the plan is to cover any aluminum parts with tape. As for the 2° inward slope, this is more than doable, although I'm quite convinced I could devise a clamp that would work with the thread thingy that I have. I also planned to make a set of "dog tops" with rubberized sides (again, silicone to avoid any marks) for added friction.

I already have a very early prototype, but it's only a piece of wood with a hole drilled through to allow for a bolt to be attached to the pipe. I'd rather show you something meaningful. So.... stand by

 

I'm pretty sure the ones we had on our High School wood shop benches were hardwood (early '60s)
At the time it was a brand new shop with high end everything.

 

Jerry what kind of work do you do on the bench? If it is primarily wood I would not use metal. If you are using different kinds of material you can always make wooden dogs at 5/8" Or you dress up your dogs for whatever you do. It's your bench after all.

 

I was afraid someone would ask me that I don't even have a bench yet, and this is more of a project to explore some avenues of what I could or could not do with bench dogs. Still, the plan is to work primarily with wood.

The design for the very basic dog assumes that the pipe will be hidden and the "work surface" of the dog will be wooden. There will be a bolt connecting the wooden part to the pipe, but I intend to drill a recess in it so that the bolt head stays flush with the top surface of the dog.

 

I have several bench dogs, some I made and some I bought, and some I like and others I don't. You just have to find out what works for you.

 

If you haven't built the bench yet then you could go to the traditional type dog which is rectangular. You just slot your boards before you laminate them together.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by laminating the boards together in this context.

I intend to get a slate of 30mm plywood (like the one on the image below), 150cm x 60cm, and just measure and drill holes. I'm not sure if anything else is necessary. My intuition tells me that it should be a decent material for a work surface, as I can't really afford any "proper" wooden ones.

If I'm not allowed to link this image due to Copyright or similar laws, please let me know and I'll remove it.

 

Okay. I thought we were talking about more traditional workbenches that are laminated together from multiple boards. If you're using that ply you'll need a good sturdy ladder style frame below it.

 

Jerry; D. Fir plywood is available in 1" as well. We used it for stair treads
4' x 8' x 24mm(1") Select Fir Plywood or 1 1/8", whichever is available to you
Get a buddy to help you pick it up... it's heavy!

Duly noted, gentlemen!

My plan was to get something thick and beefy, since it should it give me a bit more stability (assuming that it's properly supported) and it just feels.... sturdier.

 

Jerry; D. Fir plywood is available in 1" as well. We used it for stair treads
4' x 8' x 24mm(1") Select Fir Plywood or 1 1/8", whichever is available to you
Get a buddy to help you pick it up... it's heavy!

 

I believe a number of people have mentioned using a layer of hardboard (Masonite) on top of the plywood...basically a disposable layer when it gets a bit scruffy. I guess it depends what you want it for(?)...
The Masonite makes a lot of sense if you're doing glue-ups and painting on it; household stuff rather them Queen Anne chairs.
Half a century ago we did the glueing and finishing on metal topped tables (large!). They would have been galvanized but they may even have been Zinc.
(I think I remember our Danish shop teacher saying, "I zinc you should do zat over zere." )

 

I think I remember our Danish shop teacher saying, "I zinc you should do zat over zere."

Take it from me, Dan, if there were a Smiley for "Groan" I'd be using it!

 

I did consider using hardboard as a disposable top layer. Truth be told, the design of the bench top depends on so many things. Generally, I need a surface for a variety of stuff (woodworking, but also painting, electronics and some more). I can only imagine that I might need some holes for dogs, but then I'm seriously considering making a cavity for a custom acrylic base plate to attach my router from below.

Oh well. Next week I intend to finish working on my dogs, then we'll see.

 

The workbench in my old shop had a front that was laminated from two 6x2' Jarrah planks - the front one on edge, the one behind on the flat, with square holes
for benchdogs cut into the on-edge plank. Very much in the traditional European shape that was mentioned here several times (well, that's the kind of bench
"Hobelbank" that I learned on). Behind those front planks, I had made the rest of the benchtop from 1/2" ply, and that worked just fine.

But then I made an assembly table ... which has no vices any more at all. This one has a top that is a stressed panel made from 2 laminated mdf sheets.
{Oops, can't post a link to my work-in-progress page on another forum yet, I haven't been here long enough} send a message if you want a look-see. That was still made in my old shop, before we moved. Sadly, the old bench stayed behind; I'd love to have it back. The new assembly bench came with us. I don't use benchtops with the mdf skin - that'd be lethal - instead I hook a clamp through it to hold the work in place. The laminate doesn't accept pva glue well, so cleanup with a chisel or knife is easy when I've had squeeze-out dribble on the surface of the table. It just peels off.

Since I have a jointer and a thicknesser I don't need to true up planks with a hand plane any more, and this works out fine for me. I use scrap 'cover sheets' as sacrificial material when I break down sheet materials for cabinets. Methodology of working has changed over the last 30 years .... my hand planes and cabinet scrapers only come out after I've glued up a large panel (table top, headboard) when benchdogs wouldn't do all that much good in any event.

Love the tip of 3D printing plugs for the holes by the way. I've a friend with a 3D printer, I will have to have a chat with him about this ...