HI Steve

It's true it can be hard to cut it down to size without some help.
I use some 2 x 4 x 8' long, 4ea. I camp it to the 2 x 4 and use a laminate trim bit to get it down to a bit over size of the table top.

LAMINATE TRIMMERS WITH SQUARE EURO BEARINGSLAMINATE TRIM
http://woodworkersworld.net/laminate_trim_bits.shtml#sq

Euro Laminate Trimming Bits
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/katana_bits4.htm


Glue once it's down it's down....use a roller and it's set...


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Thanks. How long do you let it dry? 15 to 20 minutes?

SB

 

HI SB

15 to 20 minutes is fine, just right to get a cup of coffee and take a small break out side to get away from the smell

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Steve, a jig saw does a nice job. As for contact adhesive, depending on the weather, 10 to 20 minutes is normal, but the test is when it just feels dry. Both surfaces are of course coated and use at least three pieces of dowel to keep the laminate clear of the surface, centre the laminate which should be slightly oversize, then remove one dowel at a time as you press the laminate down. Finally go around with a bearing trim bit and don't forget to clean off the clinging adhesive (from the bit).

 

HI Harry

You should give one of the new type of trim bits a try out. almost no glue clean up is needed.... plus the glue will not build up on the bearing and change the cutting point like the old type of bits do not to talk about the mess they make and the little burn marks from the bearing sticking/jamming up with glue..



A Euro Square Bearing added to a quality Whiteside Trim Router Bit.
The square bearing stop spinning as soon as it touches the work piece. Then the side of the square simply slides along the work piece edge. Compare this to a regular bearing that rolls along the edge, building up more glue and reside with every revolution.
Plus the square is made of non-stick Teflon, so it wipes clean and won't mark your work piece.
These bits are designed with a slight taper on the cutting diameter.
This allows up or down adjustment to achieve an exact blend, even after sharpening.

from MLCS ▼
Do the same work in less time! Our specially designed 2 flute carbide tipped laminate trimming bits include the Euro™ Square Teflon bearing. These bits are designed to slide on clean laminate edges. The bearing will not scratch your work piece. Glue will not stick to the bearing. The bit cuts a slight bevel for a clean cut and no filling is required. Use the 1/2" size for small laminate trimmers and the 3/4" size for larger routers and router tables. Patent pending.
The replacement 1/2" Euro™ Square bearings are ideal for converting our Katana® edge forming bits into solid surface bits. The non-scratch feature is great for Corian™ and other solid surface man-made materials. 1/4" shank.


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Steve,
I've done a few cabinet reface jobs with plastic laminate. I lay out my cuts on the big sheet and to rough cut it (slightly oversize) I use Klenk Laminate Shears™, Model # MA72500 K12 Straight Cut Laminate Shear.
http://www.klenktools.com/Main/Products/LaminateShearsNew.asp
Home Depot carries these and are branded under "Beno J Gundlach Company" You'll find them in the area that they sell the plastic laminate, not the tool section. They work very well and without the chipping & cracking that a jig saw will give you. Edge banding pieces I cut out on the band saw with a 6 or greater tooth blade. Bob's recomendation of cutters with the square type followers is good. The ball bearing type will work but be prepared to clean some glue off the bearing. It's no real problem but it takes a minute or so to do. I use the Wilsonart 600 contact adhesive. It's ready when you can touch it without it sticking to your finger. The time depends on the temperature, humidity, wind and the position of the moon. Usually less than 10 minutes. Open time is between 30 & 60 minutes. If it's too dry you can reactivate it with another light coat. Partical board edges need 2 coats. Plywood usually needs 2 coats also. Cement application: the worst part of the job. Locate a store that sells plastic laminate, I use Mica City here in Ft. Lauderdale, and get a roller as pictured below. HD & Lowes do not carry these! What they sell for contact cement doesn't come remotely close to the ones pictured. I even cleaned & reused them. I hope all this helps.

 

cutting laminate

you guys may laugh at me for being a little rough around the edges, but i have actually cut laminate with a pair of straight cutting tin snips, then glued it on and flushtrimmed the edges.

 

you guys may laugh at me for being a little rough around the edges, but i have actually cut laminate with a pair of straight cutting tin snips, then glued it on and flushtrimmed the edges.

Not at all. I've done the same myself when working out on site

 

It depends on how comfortable you are with the Lam router and your surroundings. Unless I'm ripping banding I mark the laminate with straight edge and pencil, lay clampage to it to keep it from running away and free hand.
In the past I've scoured the backing with a utility knife and snapped it.

I've always gone with tack factor, heat and humidity can alter drying big time not to mention how liberally the application is or how porous the material is. If I can touch it and it ain't wet its ready.

Lastly I always start contact and rolling from the center and work my way out. To date I've never had bubble issues.

A square bearing sounds cool as long as there's a clean path to follow, are they expensive or what?

 

Bj, I'll keep an eye out for those bearings.

 

subtitles

I'm going to stick my two cents worth in here. All of the above are bang on but I'm going to add the following:

1. clean your surfaces completely. No grease, dust etc.

2. I use a water soluable version of contact cement that is much nicer than the chemical solvent type. The smell is still pretty strong but it is quick and easy to clean up.

4. Work quickly. Get the glue spread evenly then leave it alone! Let it tack up without touching it.

3. Pour a goodly dollup of glue on one of the surfaces and spread with a clean paint roller. I use the 10" roller sleeve. I have some old thin pile ones specifically for this. Repeat with the other surface.

5. Then follow Harry's instructions (minimum 3 dowels) I have a pail full of old sticks just for this purpose. (Keep them clean)

6. Use a "J" roller to press the two parts together to complete the bond. Start in the centre and work out gradually. You're trying to force air bubbles out the edges. I roll, remove a stick and roll some more. Don't remove a stick until it is in the way.

Now, I've tried everything from blocks of wood (with and without wooden mallet), steel blocks, clamps, you name it and I've tried it. Nothing beats the "J" roller. If you don't have one, go get one before you even think about starting.

My biggest headache when applying contact cement is once everything is done, I end up with bumps and other imperfections in the surface of the laminate. I've tracked these down to little bits of contact cement that were disturbed during curing and stuck up above the surface of the remainder of the cement and hardened at a different rate than the rest of the cement. Alternatively, a bit of saw dust with cement around it invariably sticks up and creates a bump in the laminate. Hence my "keep it clean" and "work quickly then don't touch" advice.

BTW, I cut my laminates with a sharp utility knife and a clamped straight edge. Many careful shallow incisions are preferred to a few deep ones.

One last comment. Don't cut the laminate too closely to the final size. Every time I figure that extra piece will just fit, it doesn't. For some reason the more critical the application the more out of line the final application of the laminate is.

Ok, I've tried to help, now I need some help. Can anyone explain what and how to bend laminates? I was doing a kitchen counter with a 1" bullnose edge and for the life of Me, I couldn't get the laminate formed around the edge. I tried heat gun, clothes iron, a piece of iron heated with a propane torch and the whole thing prompted with clamps and any sort of rig with which I could inflict tension.

Your insight into the world of bent laminate would be appreciated.

Allthunbs

 

Can anyone explain what and how to bend laminates? I was doing a kitchen counter with a 1" bullnose edge and for the life of Me, I couldn't get the laminate formed around the edge.

Over the counter laminates come in two types, VG and HG. That is to say vertical grade and horizontal grade. Horizontal grade is the thicker and really isn't designed to bend unless you have a post forming jig. That said you'd probably not get VG to form over a 1in radius either. So the answer is you need consistent heat and pressure to form a rolled edge and it isn't really the sort of thing you can achieve without a lot of expense. Take a look at post forming presses at Art Betterley's site (Betterley Enterprises) and you'll see his take on post forming edges (which is a lower cost version of what the big worktop manufacturers do in the EU)

On the subject of glue I've used solvent-based, water-based and spray-on (a form of solvent based). For large amounts of flat surfaces you can't beat spray on for speed, consistency and ease of use (I'd rather not use them for narrow strips as masking off and sticky overspray are far too time-consuming) - the downside is that a cannister and a gun are about $350 over here in the UK. Another downer is that the cannister is non-recyclable, so they're not enviro-friendly. Overall my experience is that solvent-based works much better than water-based - it's more durable and less likely to heat bubble or delaminate. I spread mine with a selection of simple "combs" made by glueing two offcut strips of laminate together (6in long x 3-1/2in wide is a good size) then sawing 10 to 15mm deep teeth into one edge of the laminate using a very fine jewellers saw. Costs nothing but a little time and I can easily make-up specials to handle narrow edges, etc.

 

Hi Allthunbs

They make and sell thin laminate that will bend and not crack,,,take a walk around in the HD stores and look on the back walls for it,,,it's on the shelf the norm...4 x 8 pieces the norm.
I have two or three rolls of it, that's the key it will roll up into a 12" to 14" circle ..unlike the norm..that must stay flat...

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Thanks BJ:

But, how about bending it? Do you use heat, pressure, tension, what?

BTW I haven't seen towers like those you have in the background of the photo for years. Are you creating a museum? If so, I have tons of stuff you're welcome to. I've actually got 64K memory chips. ;-)

Allthunbs

 

I just tried to roll some Formica that I had into a 12" roll. This is supposed to be the thin stuff and it didn't, The tightest I could get it was about 20"

Glue and Roller doesn't cut it for me. Other options?

I could reminiss about the "good old days" 'til the cows came home but I'll spare the others the pain. Tell the BOSS that I've got some really neat stuff and you just have to make a trip to Eastern Central Canada to get it!

Allthunbs

 

HI
I guess you could make a mold out some plywood and press and clamp the heck out of it..

But That's alot of work, the right stuff for the right job thing comes into play I think..

But it's not Formica,, Formica is made to to put down flat to a point but I'm sure you have seen in it on rounded back splash boards but it wants to come up over time.

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You didn't say what radius is involved, I wouldn't attempt anything under about 2" but over this is no problem with normal Formica, BUT, in my experience, water based contact adhesive is for the birds, I use solvent based gel and let it dry for at least 15-20 minutes.

 

This is what I use.

 

Plastic Laminate must be heated to make sharp bends or easy curves.
Pretty much every manufacturer makes flexible laminate.
Once you heat it up, it bends real easy. Just make sure the adhesive is ready!!
HTH
John

 

Thanks John: but what do you use to heat yours? I've tried heat guns, clothes irons, even warmed some iron bars with a propane torch and the laminate still cracked or broke.

 

Factory backsplashes are due to a combo of heat and pressure molds over time.

 

You have to make sure you are using the flexible laminate first of all.
Normal laminate is able to bend a little but not much, and will crack or splinter.
We use heat guns lined up on a rack to heat long edges. warm it till it is flexible, then adhere it.

 

Dave

Thanks for the info on portable router trimming on laminate. I will locate a dealer in the area which carries the square roller flush cut bit and practice with a board as a base extender. I tust this will take care of my edge ugly problem. How do you cut out the unacceptable or repair damaged laminate banding? Thanks

 

Thanks for that update Phil.

I will have to laminate my circle jig this weekend.

PS Harry, I saw your photo of the Norton's adhesive. I should be able to get that at Bunnings.

 

Hi Phil:

Thanks, You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. I will make one comment.

I thin down water-based contact cement about 5% until it is quite thin and then apply it with an old 10" thin nap paint roller. You have to work quickly. You can get a very thin, even coat that cures quickly without lumps. I have found that the "J" roller is the trick. Really lean on that sucker as you remove the spacers.