I ordered a three piece bit set ( stile, rail and panel) that have 1/4" shanks. I also ordered a 1/4" collet for my Hitachi TR12 router ( 1/2"). The 1/4" collet was received in a plastic package printed with Hitachi, part number, TR12 and 1/4". It also has "Made in Japan". There are English and Japanese writings. I feel confident that it is a factory part. The 1/4" collet slides freely , but not loose, within the router's 1/2" collet. One of the bits with a .250" shank will not fit into the 1/4' collet. The other bit with a .2475" shank goes freely into the 1/4" collet but the 1/2" collet will not tighten enough to hold the bit. At maximum tightening, the .2475" shank bit slides easily out of the 1/4' collet. I'm not sure that it matters but the open slot of the router 1/2" collet was matched to the open slot of the 1/4" collet. So my question is what should the tolerances be for the bit shanks?. What should the measurements be? Is it possible that the 1/4" collet is not to specs?
bits and collet issues
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I'm not an expert like the rest of the guys here, but where things went wrong was buying the set in 1/4 inch. Those bits are generally large and have a fair amount of mass which require at least a two HP variable speed router. You must have bought them because they were a good deal, but in reality you wasted your money.
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I also think you may have a 6mm collet instead of a 1/4" collet. I have an M12, M12V2, and an M12VC. The M12V only came with a 1/2" collet and a 1/4" reducer bushing and I've never had it slip. The M12V2 and the VC both use the same collet/nut assembly and they come in both sizes. I recently went to chuck a roundover bit in the VC and it was too loose in the collet so I checked it and it was 6mm. I happen to have a 1/2 to 6mm bushing and it worked fine with it.
The TR12 router is 3 h.p. and I have it connected to a speed controller. I had not thought about a metric mix. The bits were packaged as a set. I'll have to dig deeper into the possibility of a metric issues. Sounds like I will have a return of some sort in my future. I'll have to figure it out from here. Thanks for the help.
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What you have bought is a 1/2" to 1/4" collet reducing sleeve not a 1/4" collet. I will not use one of these (bit slippage is almost guaranteed) and advise my students not to use them. If you can't get a full-function stand-alone 1/4" collet for a given router you can't use 1/4" bits in that router.
Denis Lock (Routing with Denis)
Denis Lock (Routing with Denis)
The problem cannot reside just in the sleeve: it may well be a metric 6mm, but then the nominal 1/4" bit should not fit it at all, let alone slide out. Hitachi does not often make mistakes (have had one for more than 30 years, with 6mm and 1/4" sleeves), but I would not know about your bit set.
I often reflect on how much one can do, if one is unaware that it cannot be done. With enlightenment, often comes paralysis. I built a bunch of bathroom cabinet doors in imbuia (before it became a threatened species) and other doors in mdf, using 1/4" R&S bits in a single-speed router, 1 1/4 hp. Then I read it should not be done, so I went out and bought the necessary, and have never had the urge to make another. Ditto with raised panels.
Denis, the snag is that a number of routers do not come with smaller collets, even in the latest model. I dare say that you are avsolutely correct, but again in ignorance, one can get quite far with the reducing sleeves from the original maufacturer. The only time I have had a problem, is with a push-pull Jacobs chuck (before the muscle chuck was invented) -the sleeve slipped.
I often reflect on how much one can do, if one is unaware that it cannot be done. With enlightenment, often comes paralysis. I built a bunch of bathroom cabinet doors in imbuia (before it became a threatened species) and other doors in mdf, using 1/4" R&S bits in a single-speed router, 1 1/4 hp. Then I read it should not be done, so I went out and bought the necessary, and have never had the urge to make another. Ditto with raised panels.
Denis, the snag is that a number of routers do not come with smaller collets, even in the latest model. I dare say that you are avsolutely correct, but again in ignorance, one can get quite far with the reducing sleeves from the original maufacturer. The only time I have had a problem, is with a push-pull Jacobs chuck (before the muscle chuck was invented) -the sleeve slipped.
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I've also never had a sleeve slip and as I said the M12V only came with a 1/4" bushing. There is no 1/4" collet for it in existence. If I were to be using it with a bushing in a production run I think I would check the tightness as it got hot to make sure it was still tight. But then I might do that with a collet too as I've seen them get loose when hot.
Captlfx, you asked how much off is too much. I saw Pat Warner (Quillman on this forum) say once in a post and I can't remember if it was only .001 or if it was .002 but I think that was the max. I bought a cheap set from a retail chain here in Canada and I couldn't get one of the bits into a 1/4" collet. All the rest of the bits fit fine but this one was oversize. It had slipped through quality control and the retailer replaced it for me. Mistakes do happen and of course they seem to happen more often on Asian production lines as their QC is known for being lax.
If you have some 1st quality bits (Whiteside, Freud, CMT, etc.) and the ability to measure accurately then check them against the ones you are having trouble with. If they are supposed to be 1/4" and they are off as far as you say then return them. They should be considered defective. If they are .2475 then they aren't 1/4" or 6mm as that measure is in between.
Captlfx, you asked how much off is too much. I saw Pat Warner (Quillman on this forum) say once in a post and I can't remember if it was only .001 or if it was .002 but I think that was the max. I bought a cheap set from a retail chain here in Canada and I couldn't get one of the bits into a 1/4" collet. All the rest of the bits fit fine but this one was oversize. It had slipped through quality control and the retailer replaced it for me. Mistakes do happen and of course they seem to happen more often on Asian production lines as their QC is known for being lax.
If you have some 1st quality bits (Whiteside, Freud, CMT, etc.) and the ability to measure accurately then check them against the ones you are having trouble with. If they are supposed to be 1/4" and they are off as far as you say then return them. They should be considered defective. If they are .2475 then they aren't 1/4" or 6mm as that measure is in between.
Thanks for the correction of a "1/4 sleeve" is not a 1/4' collet. I have now been able to fit additional 1/4" bits into the sleeve. All lock down correctly. Two new bits and 4 older bits were measured. None were over .250" and all measured within .001" of .250". I don't know if .248"-.2485" will lock in the sleeve but .02475 will not. I've learned a lot from these posts. Thanks.
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Welcome Jack.
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