Router Forums banner
21 - 40 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Thanks for all the input so far, I really appreciate it.

I think I may have to change the way I work. I've been using the table saw, bandsaw, planer and sanding in the garage with a dust mask on. I think I need to start using them outside. The table saw is on wheels. The bandsaw is not (it's a bench top model) but it does have a dust collection port that will fit a shop vacuum. The routing, planing and sanding can be done outside with some sort of DC system attached.

Just to clarify: the Wynn filter that goes on the dust collector makes it so I can use the DC inside the shop and no dust will get out, correct? I may go to a work system where I hook the DC up and just use it to collect any dust, even when I'm outside. I thought of using a fan to blow it away, but it often blows back at me or in the garage. I can put the DC I have just outside the garage in the back yard. It will not show from the street so I can store it there since there is no room in the garage. I just need to make sure the hose will reach into the garage. It's on wheels, so I can move it into the garage (provided I move the cars out), hence my question about making sure I can use it with the Wynn filter inside.

I can't have anything that has ports exiting out of the garage walls; the dust will show and the HOA will not approve. I can work with the portable tools outside, though. I think having a DC hooked up will mollify the one neighbor who complains about this sort of thing and be good for me as well.

I use MDF and oak, so I really need some sort of DC system. When I look behind stuff, it's covered with a fine layer of dust. Not good.

Maybe I'll post pictures of my shop so you can all see what I'm dealing with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,014 Posts
I had a thought the HOA would be a problem, especially with an annoying neighbor. I wonder if you can get a metal, or build a wood-framed "Water Heater" cabinet to attach to the back wall, then run a "pipe" back into the garage? You'll need to make sure it has a vent so you don't develop back pressure, but you could line it with sound absorbing material to avoid annoying the neighbor and generating complaints. If you show you mean to make it nice looking and paint it to match the house, you might be able to get it approved. Let them know the alternative is for you to haul all the saws out into the driveway for use, which will be noisier and disturbing to the neighbors. I suspect they will prefer a nice looking, noise canceling enclosure to having your saws out on the driveway.

This is not only a dust collection, but a local politics issue. So if you make it clear, in writing, that you only have a few options to continuing your hobby while being a good neighbor. Most garages have air vents, and you may be able to use part of one to pass the pipe through. I'd be a little less happy about cutting through a wall, but the cabinet will conceal that. Politically I'd present my plan as trying to be nice to the neighbors. I believe most HOAs members know who the annoying people are and will be more likely to approve a small, out of sight solution that reduces the number of noise complaints. Both you and the association know full well that pulling your saws out is guaranteed to set off the easily annoyed. And that you are having either a stock cabinet or a pro carpenter build one, tells them you are doing your best to conform to HOA rules.

You will need to have a sizable air exhaust in that cabinet, and you can buy a cover that holds a large filter, but has vanes that keep rain out. The second filter will completely stop wandering sawdust from triggering a complaint.

One other alternative to consider is to put the filter where it returns the air back into the garage. This will preserve your conditioned air, and also allow you to soundproof the DC cabinet, which may appeal to your HOA. If you can build the cabinet, you can keep the garage door closed when using your noisy tools, and you can soundproof the garage door using heavy, spongy material that, again, won't be visible to neighbors. WIN WIN. If all else fails, you could set up a chamber with non supporting walls INSIDE the garage, which will eat a little space, and still give you the double filtration I spoke of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I had a thought the HOA would be a problem, especially with an annoying neighbor. I wonder if you can get a metal, or build a wood-framed "Water Heater" cabinet to attach to the back wall, then run a "pipe" back into the garage? You'll need to make sure it has a vent so you don't develop back pressure, but you could line it with sound absorbing material to avoid annoying the neighbor and generating complaints. If you show you mean to make it nice looking and paint it to match the house, you might be able to get it approved. Let them know the alternative is for you to haul all the saws out into the driveway for use, which will be noisier and disturbing to the neighbors. I suspect they will prefer a nice looking, noise canceling enclosure to having your saws out on the driveway.

This is not only a dust collection, but a local politics issue. So if you make it clear, in writing, that you only have a few options to continuing your hobby while being a good neighbor. Most garages have air vents, and you may be able to use part of one to pass the pipe through. I'd be a little less happy about cutting through a wall, but the cabinet will conceal that. Politically I'd present my plan as trying to be nice to the neighbors. I believe most HOAs members know who the annoying people are and will be more likely to approve a small, out of sight solution that reduces the number of noise complaints. Both you and the association know full well that pulling your saws out is guaranteed to set off the easily annoyed. And that you are having either a stock cabinet or a pro carpenter build one, tells them you are doing your best to conform to HOA rules.

You will need to have a sizable air exhaust in that cabinet, and you can buy a cover that holds a large filter, but has vanes that keep rain out. The second filter will completely stop wandering sawdust from triggering a complaint.

One other alternative to consider is to put the filter where it returns the air back into the garage. This will preserve your conditioned air, and also allow you to soundproof the DC cabinet, which may appeal to your HOA. If you can build the cabinet, you can keep the garage door closed when using your noisy tools, and you can soundproof the garage door using heavy, spongy material that, again, won't be visible to neighbors. WIN WIN. If all else fails, you could set up a chamber with non supporting walls INSIDE the garage, which will eat a little space, and still give you the double filtration I spoke of.
Good idea! All good points. I hesitate to involve the HOA because they might just say no because they really have no idea what this is. However, I might be able to show them pictures/sketches so they can see it will look nice and include your suggestions about the other option being to drag it out in front and make noise, soundproofing, and the other mitigation solutions you mentioned. We are supposed to get approval even for stuff in the backyard, but I don't think anyone does, especially if it doesn't show. I only have one neighbor who is a problem; all the other ones think my hobbies are really cool. In fact, when they hear the saw, they come over and ask, "Watcha buildin'?" The guy down the street has a shop-built cyclone DC system.

I thought I might make an enclosure right outside my garage to store my existing DC in. It would be hidden from the street by a wall. The DC is 58" tall and the wall is 65". I could wheel it out to use it, or even use it in place. Does the type I have (the typical bag type) need a huge exhaust vent? How would I calculate the size needed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,014 Posts
Not sure of the exact size you'll need, but If you used 20x20 filters, the opening should be enough to keep back pressure from building up. In my setup, I have a 20x20 Return Filter Grille, like the one in most houses, to hold a filter for the air returning to the shop. To me, that extra filter can't hurt.

You might be able to get an electrician to hook your DC up to the Electric Dryer outlet that's in most modern houses. Heck, our house was built in 1986 and has one rated at 50 amps. I'm still inclined toward the idea of building an enclosure outside in the back. But you have to live with it, not me.
 

·
Retired Moderator
Joined
·
16,385 Posts
Your table saw is going to be the worst offender. Some are now available with an overarm blade guard/dust collector for that reason. A lot of the sawdust they throw is produced above the table where there is no way for a DC to deal with it without that guard. Plus there is the noise issue.I recall one member several years ago who came looking for sound deadening ideas for them. They are very noisy and the noise is an especially annoying frequency. Using it outside eliminates most of the dust problem for you but that and the noise may be a problem with your neighbors. I suggested erecting a curtain around it at the time which could have a DC drawing air from it to get rid of the residual hazard. A styrofoam box around the saw was also suggested as very low density panels do a great job of deadening sound and the really annoying whine they make is muted significantly.
 

·
Administrator
David - Machinist in wood
Joined
·
4,311 Posts
I looked at the Wynn filter (https://wynnenv.com/products-page/woodworking-filter-pricing/).

1. Should I get the MERV 10 or MERV 15? Is the extra 0.009% worth it/make a difference?
2. Closed top or removable top?
I got the removable top figuring it would be easier to get really clean if I want to go to the effort. And I have removed it a few times to use the shop vac to clean the insides but it's easy to just blow air from the outside. Even though I don't remove the top often I wanted the option. Also, if you ever wanted to stack two together you'll need the removable top on at least the bottom one.

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,317 Posts
I don't have a homeowner association, but live in an up-scale neighborhood with doctors, lawyers, etc. so I try hard to be a good neighbor. My saving grace is that I live on the end of a peninsula in a lake, so I try to make my noise on the lake side of my home and shop. The Canadian Geese don't complain, and I wouldn't care if they did, but if the fabric cover comes off my barrel while I'm running my planer outside, the escaping chips sometimes end up in my neighbor's pool, so I then need to work quickly to clean the pool for him.

The exhaust from my central vacuum is piped out through the lake side wall of my shop, up high near the 2nd floor roof, again aimed toward the Geese, who don't complain. It sounds like a small jet plane, so they move to the other side of the lake when it's running. At least they aren't grazing and crapping on my lawn and sidewalks then.

Charley
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,045 Posts
Woodworkers really need a dust collector that catches the finest dust and many dust collectors, especially the bag type collectors, don't catch much of this dust. It goes right through the bag of most bag type dust collectors. The larger saw dust and wood chips make a huge mess if you don't collect them, but it's the micron sized dust that will harm you, and you can't usually see this size dust.

In my small shop I really don't have the space for large ducts and a big dust collector. I do my planing outside the shop and collect the chips in a large barrel. My major saw dust producer in my shop is my Unisaw, and I have to depend on it's base cabinet to collect and hold the saw dust from it until I shovel it out. This is pretty much the same for my band saw. The rest of my tools, sanders, grinders, drill presses, scroll saws, routers, and portable sanders all get connected to my re-purposed central vacuum unit that has a Dust Deputy connected in the line ahead of it. The Dust Deputy collected dust falls into a 20 gallon metal barrel under it. This combination removes 99%+ of all of even the tiniest dust particles from the air stream, but can't handle the large wood chips from planers, etc.. The exhaust from this vacuum is also ported out through my shop wall at the 2nd floor level, so none of even the sub micron dust ever gets fed back into my shop. I also use this system to vacuum my shop floor (after sweeping) and to clean up my tools. I also have an inlet port mounted in the outside wall of my shop next to the passage door so that I can take the 25' hose outside and vacuum my cars and trucks with it.

I now have a 2nd Dust Deputy mounted on a 5 gallon bucket and connected to my shop vac for use whenever I need a more portable vacuum system. I use this system mostly when working away from my shop, like doing home renovation, etc. For this, I have to depend on the shop vac's filter to collect the super fine dust that the Dust Deputy misses, but I only rarely need to use this system.

Charley
So I'm guessing your not a big fan of Canadian Geese. I hadn't heard a table saw referred to as a Unisaw in years. Had to look that up just in case......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Here's a sketch of what I'm thinking of making. The filter on the side is 20" x 20". The round circle is where the intake hose goes. The door on the narrow side opens for access to the inside of this cabinet. Ill paint it to match the house.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Hmm...Maybe install it outside if there's no room for it inside your shop?
I've been researching this and found this article. I don't know if it will help though.

https://www.danpattison.com/blog/2016/11/29/small-shop-dust-collection-solutions
Thanks. Any info I get is helpful. Seems like everyone who has some serious dust collection has a dedicated shop and the space for it. I don't; my garage is a "working garage": we park cars in it, have the kids' stuff, use it for storage, etc.

I need to figure out how to collect dust from my machines without having to assemble the DC system every time. I thought I would set up the DC I have outside my side garage door (as you suggest) and hook the hose up to each machine as I use it. I'm looking for ideas, but I need to start using the tools and the DC and see what works for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Most dust collectors are on wheels. Keep a 10' hose connected to it, and just roll it to the machine you are using. There are several quick connect fittings for dust hoses. Only takes a second to connect the hose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Most dust collectors are on wheels. Keep a 10' hose connected to it, and just roll it to the machine you are using. There are several quick connect fittings for dust hoses. Only takes a second to connect the hose.
I thought the same thing; how hard is it to attach a hose?! But... I've found that I'm more likely to use it if it's mostly ready to go. I'm looking for ideas and trying to figure something out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I sketched out a possible ducting solution:

1. I thought I would store my DC just outside the side door and run a hose to a fitting near the table saw. It would be a "Y" fitting; one side for the table saw, one for the rest of the system. A gate would block off the rest when I use the table saw.

2. I use my sander and bandsaw in my work area so I routed some ducting behind the workbench. I could run some flexible hoses to the ports on the machines.

3. I thought I would have a connection to the left of the work bench (not shown on the sketch) for using my router and planer. I'd just run a flexible hose to them.

4. have a 1HP DC. I'll need to find out if this will have enough power to suck thru about 50 feet of ducting.

5. At some point, I think I need to reduce the duct size.

6. I would have gates at various points to increase suction as needed.

7. I tried to keep the amount of bends to a minimum. There are five 90 degree bends. I might need to add a 45 degree by the table saw to get around something (not shown). That's 450 degrees (maybe 495) of bends.

I didn't show everything in the garage on the sketch, by the way, just the relevant items.

Thoughts?
 

Attachments

·
Retired Moderator
Joined
·
16,385 Posts
Keep in mind Jeff that a DC doesn't actually work on suction, it works on air flow. When you reduce size you also reduce air flow. The debris and dust rides that air column to the collector. So when you only have a small opening for something like your band saw you may need to open a gate past that to get enough air flow to make it work properly. In that case instead of ending a run at the reduction you should connect with a tee or wye and put a blast gate on the end of that so you can crack it open a bit. For dust it might not be that important but if you're making chips it might be. The air flow going by the tee or wye can actually increase suction at the tool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Herb Stoops

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I was reading thru the info I got on dust collection from this website and found this: "If the branch is smaller than 3" dia., requirement is high velocity vacuum, not volume dust collection, it is recommended to use a shop vac." Looks like I don't need a DC for this after all.

I think for the sander, planer, router and bandsaw, all of which have smaller diameter ports, I could install a small metal duct behind the workbench (see my sketches) that I hook my vacuum up to when I need to use any of these. That eliminates the ducting needed to cross the garage. This allows me to just use the DC for the table saw.

I did some calculations and it appears my system requirements are 1370 CFM @ 10.79 SPWG. The Grizzly DC units that look like mine barely handle that.

So, to conclude: it seems to me that I can use a shop vac for the tools with smaller ports, I just need to make a small duct system to hook up a shop vac to to make it more convenient. Otherwise I'd have to hook the shop vac up to each tool.
I can use the DC for the table saw. It's not too hard to hook up as needed, but I can always make a duct for it if I find that it's really a pain to hook it up every time.

Now if I could just find more time to work on projects, I could try all this out and see if what I'm suggesting will actually work in a real world setting!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Couple of comments about HEPA filters and hoses. A HEPA filter is only effective if there is a prefilter bag to collect all the larger particles. The emergence of HEPA filtered "shop vacs" in the US was driven by updated lead abatement regulations. Those dust vacs/extractors are certified to be EPA RRP compliant. Certified models have a sticker on the case. I had both a Shop Vac w/a aftermarket HEPA filtered installed and a Festool Midi and the Shop Vac leaked fine dust thru the exhaust port and seal at the top cover. The Festool is in a totally different class.

The performance of your system is highly dependent on the flexible hose. Hoses w/smooth interiors are much better and positioning the hose w/as few sharp bends will make a noticeable difference. When I'm in my workshop, I find most of the hoses are too long. Given the small size of your shop, you might want to consider a rotating arm w/a short length of hose at the end. Unplug the hose and swing the arm over to a different tool. The are many different examples in the various woodworking forums.

As Dan's blogs mention, sealing up the exhaust area on table saws is critical for a working system. I find the biggest offenders are routers and miter saws.
 
21 - 40 of 48 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top