Dust Separator Comparison

21519 Views 43 Replies 21 Participants Last post by Cherryville Chuck, Mar 10, 2020

MEBCWD

Discussion Starter · Jun 14, 2018

8

Last night I was in the shop for an all-nighter. I have been trying to avoid some of this heat we have been having here in the Dallas area. I got to a point that glue was drying and I needed to go inside to do some test fitting. I did not want to wake everyone up with dogs barking if I went inside so I got everything ready to re-do the test I had messed up last week.

To start I cleaned the vacuum and filter (Ridgid WD 70000), the Dust Deputy (Oneida Air), the Dustopper (Home Depot) and the Dust RIGHT Separator (Rockler).

For each test, I ran a 5 9/16x16 ½ Poplar board through the planer and took two 1/32" passes. Took pictures of the collection bucket, vacuum bucket and filter. Then sanded 3/4" off the end of a 1/2x5 9/16x16 ½ Poplar board with a 12" disk sander. Took pictures of the collection bucket, vacuum bucket and filter. Between test, the vacuum bucket and filter were cleaned.

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reuelt

· #21 · Jun 20, 2018 (Edited)

Clearvue Cyclone is BEST

Wood Magazine march2014 page 74
After they tested it they stated it returned 20 times more dust than the Oneida tested a year ago.
Clear Vue returned more dust to particles then five single stage collectors tested last year.

ClearVue came out with the mini-cyclone CV06 for ShopVaC based on Bill Penz’s research FIRST.
But Oneida filed a patent for their dust-deputy first and then wanted Clearvue to “cease and desist”.

Lawyers should not decide that a lousier Oneida Dust Deputy had been copied by a superior design.

Buy Clearvue (the Chief) or the Oneida (the Deputy)
Both are Made in USA

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DesertRatTom

· #22 · Jun 20, 2018

The 2 inch Clearview is about $150. FYI

Gaffboat

· #23 · Jun 21, 2018

Great reviews and comparisons, Mike. There is nothing better than first-hand information from an actual user. Thank for taking the time to test and report.

reuelt

· #24 · Jun 21, 2018 (Edited)

Gaffboat said:
Great reviews and comparisons, Mike. There is nothing better than first-hand information from an actual user. Thank for taking the time to test and report.

The Comparisons are too superficial. Sorry.
1. Standard vacuum bags or filters cartridges will only catch dust >5 microns in size only.
So fine dust that are harmful to health if they pass though a bad cyclone or separator would also have pass though the filter bags or cartridge too.
To really compare, all separators must be connected to the same VAC with SAME brand & model of HEPA filter.
High Efficiency Particulate Air (HEPA) Filter. By definition a HEPA filter shall exhibit a
minimum efficiency of 99.97% when tested with an aerosol of 0.3 micrometer diameter. But NOT all claimed to be HEPA are the same.
2. Dust Deputy is not the best. They claim ONLY 99% - same level as what a $4 (Made in China) Cyclone claims.
"The award-winning design of the Dust Deputy cyclone uses centrifugal force to cyclonically separate and remove over 99% of dust and debris from the air-stream before it ever reaches your vacuum's filter, eliminating clogged filters and suction loss! "
A ClearVue Cyclone claims >99.9%

read Bill Pentz SCIENTICIC cyclone and dust collection research
Dust Collection Research - Home
and be educated more SCIENTIFICALLY.

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rrrun

· #25 · Jun 21, 2018 (Edited)

reuelt said:
Dust Deputy is not the best. They claim ONLY 99% - same level as what a $4 (Made in China) Cyclone claims.
"The award-winning design of the Dust Deputy cyclone uses centrifugal force to cyclonically separate and remove over 99% of dust and debris from the air-stream before it ever reaches your vacuum's filter, eliminating clogged filters and suction loss! "
A ClearVue Cyclone claims >99.9%

That's not actually their relevant claim on their current website. This was just taken from the ClearVue website:

Separation of airborne dust is six times better than competing models. Independent medical school testing recorded separation rates at 99.9% of dust particles larger than 5-microns and 80% of fine dust particles sized to 0.5-microns. So little dust gets into the shop vacuum resulting in less filter cleaning or need for replacement filters. Continuous full airflow is uncompromised. The Mini CV06 is a great addition to any workshop. Used in conjunction with a shop vacuum, it is ideal for hand tool workstations and general dust clean up.

This is the claim from Oneida about their Dust Deputy:

The Dust Deputy will separate out over 99.7% of nearly any type of dust and debris, with less than 1% making it into the vacuum – significantly extending the life of your vacuum and saving you countless time and money on expensive replacement filters and dust bags!

These claims do not allow head-to-head comparison (funny how competitive companies always manage to do that). ClearVue claims 99.9% of larger than 5-micron dust particles, but only 80% of fine dust down to .5 microns. Oneida, on the other hand, claims 99.7% of all dust. Which is better? No clue.

I agree that both of these marketing claims are just that: marketing claims. They may be based on scientific findings about their units, but a marketing claim should always be read with a healthy skepticism.

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Gaffboat

· #26 · Jun 21, 2018

I realize it is the micron-level dust that is injurious to health, but my reason for owning a Dust Deputy is to catch the big chunks and heavier sawdust created by my planer, CNC, and table saw, without clogging up my shop vac filter. Although I may have to empty the Dust Deputy bucket frequently, little or no noticeable dust makes it to the shop vac, so it can keep it running for a more extended period.

Regardless of the <5-micron filtering issues, I think a Dust Deputy or similar device is a helpful addition to any shop. My ceiling-mounted air cleaner filters out airborne dust to the 1-micron level.

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reuelt

· #27 · Jun 21, 2018

rrrun said:
No clue.

Just look at the shape of the cyclone.
Dust Deputy's design is very simple and made in China is $4 because it is original (=GENERATION 1) design.
In China they already have Generation 3 and Generation 5 design ($25) already.

DD's claim that does not specify 99% of what size of the dust so it is a misleading claim.

Bill Penz who did research said:
"My professor and engineer friends tested most brands and sizes of small shop vacuums, dust collectors, cyclone separators and air cleaners and I shared the results of those tests here on this page but within a week all had to be taken down. Two of the biggest small shop cyclone vendors and one dust collector vendor tied me up with litigation demanding that I remove these test results and also remove every instance of those vendor names from all of my web pages. I spent thousands on attorneys who all assured me we would win eventually, but at too high of a cost. All said that the courts almost never award damages or attorney fees in these kinds of business suits, so this all had to be out of my pocket. Worse, if I did not remove these test results and vendor names immediately, these vendors would be granted a court order to force me to pull down not just the results shared on this page, but all of my web pages for the years they could drag out these nuisance suits. Regardless, each of these suits would cost me at least $25,000 to defend and I do not have a spare $75,000 or more to throw away. Three different woodworking magazine editors shared they had the same problem where the big name vendors forced them to omit negative test results and to change their testing to make certain equipment appear to perform far better than it does in real use. I apologize in advance for not being able to share all our detailed test results."

ClearVue did not design their products. They just implemented Bill Pentz's design which was designed because no other vendors's design was effective.

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Dejure

· #28 · Sep 18, 2019 (Edited)

3

Years back, I was doing work on the oldest Queen Ann in Olympia, Washington. One of the projects was cleaning up the cedar siding and shingles in front. To remove the paint, I was using a Paint Shaver Pro, which is like an angle grinder, with which a head that has three triangular carbide teeth that remove up to one square foot of paint in about one minute. Needless to say, the beast throws off a lot of dust and debris.

Initially, I ran a 16 gallon shop vac with a HEPA filter. Run time between filter cleanings was about 5 minutes. Obviously, a pain. More so because you had to be careful with everything, since the place was 80 years old, so most the paint was lead.

On a whim, I build a poor mans Rainbow vacuum using a 30 gallon, plastic drum. The pipe from the Shaver went to the bottom of the drum and the one to the vac stopped just inside the lid. To knock down splash and such, I fit a 3-M floor scrubbing pad in the drum, with a single hole for the pipe running to just off the bottom. I added about five to seven gallons of water and tried the process again. Run time went up to 20 minutes, but what a mucky mess.

I was looking for a better solution and came across a contraption called a Dust Deputy. It sounded good, so I took the two hundred dollar plunge (metal version, for the abuse factor) and have never looked back.

The Dust Deputy also gave me about twenty minutes of run time, but without the muddy mess. Add to that, it kept the efficiency of the vac high enough I was able to drop back to a smaller vac.

The Dust Deputy inspired the purchase of a 3 horse Gorilla for the shop, and Super Dust Deputy for one of the four bag units and another Deputy for the sandblast station.

I had a separator with the 90 degree bends, like the ones in the photos, but was unhappy with the results. That is not to say it didn't help, but the cyclone efficiency spoiled me. That aside, a couple of the other units show do seem to offer promise.

Meanwhile, I love that, whether using the DD, the SDD or other cyclone, I only have to empty out the dust collector collection bags about every five or ten years, though I may have emptied the drum fifty or a hundred times.

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anndel

· #29 · Sep 18, 2019

I don't saw, sand, route in the garage shop since the boss (wife) doesn't want all that debris to track into the house so I drag my workbenches into the yard and do all woodworking activities that create dust/chips. I still wear a dust mask and use the Oneida Dust Deputy Jr. outside. I wanted to try the HD Dustopper but all Hawaii stores were having issues with their inventories which have since been resolved but too late. So far the filter Ridgid shop vac (we call it the big oaf) is still clean after 4 months of use.

DesertRatTom

· #30 · Sep 18, 2019

Patent battles damaged many small companies, but the real harm is to the consumer. I believe engineering drawings that are dated and mailed back to yourself registered and unopened work pretty well in a lawsuit, but many practical inventors fail to take this step. Even if you draw an idea out on a napkin, it should be mailed this way. The earliest verifiable date often wins the patent battle. So if you invent something, you'd better back yourself up. Particularly since the Chinese don't care much, they just copy and peddle their goods. It is too bad the inventor, Bill Pentz, has been so damaged, however, the deed is done and I don't want to buy any more orphan products. The clear view model is pretty temptng, however, for my second DC chip collector/spearator.

One thing that is not covered is the exact id/od measurements of the ports. Matching connectors is a serious PITA. You can spend close to the cost of the cyclone on non fitting parts.

OCEdesigns

· #31 · Dec 4, 2019

Just ordered my Dust Deputy and it will be here tomorrow. I got sick of filling up the bags in my shop vac and my homemade version was not that good. After reading MANY MANY good reviews I had to order it! I have a bunch of CNC work to do this week and weekend so I'll get a good personal review fast!

OCEdesigns

· #32 · Dec 13, 2019

I have to admit that this Dust Deputy is AWESOME!! Even the fine dust from the belt sander gets trapped in the bucket and the suction form the Shop Vac is strong!

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Nickp

· #33 · Dec 13, 2019

Outstanding review, Mike...thanks for taking the time document it as well as you did...

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Cherryville Chuck

· #34 · Dec 13, 2019

I moved this thread into the new dust control sub forum so it's easier to find later and on topic specifically with DC..

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Dejure

· #35 · Dec 16, 2019 (Edited)

Renuit, I think the statement "no other vendor's design was effective" gives the erroneous impression their cyclones do not work (drop out and collect all but a fraction of the chips and other materials going through them).

Bill's units seem to be sound and he has a ton of research, but many of us have first hand experience with other units and know they work. Perhaps, not as well, but mine Dust Deputy was so impressive in collecting even dust, I my shop has two DD, one SDD, had a small commercial unit (Gorrilla) and I'll be adding a SDD XL.

mbrun

· #36 · Feb 2, 2020

MEBCWD, thanks for the doing the comparison. Practical real-world comparison like this are a great service to the community.

I have read Bill Pentz’s work and have great respect for him. He is very analytical and I appreciate that. I have also read many condescending comments from blog posters that are critical of anyone that owns/builds a dust collection solution that does not purify the air to a very high degree. I for one will admit that it was not pure air that caused me to obtain a Dust Collector, or even the Dust Stopper I use with my vacuum. What drove me to get one was convenience; the desire to decrease the mess my hobby produced and by extension to decrease the amount of time spent cleaning up. Achieving these simple goals makes wood working more enjoyable for me, and perhaps for many others.

If I lived in my shop (i.e. worked in it full time) I would make different decisions. I know that my health would suffer more with increased exposure to fine dust. The greater the risk, the easier it is to swallow the pill (cost) of reducing it.

Again, thanks for posting your comparisons.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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tomp913

· #37 · Feb 2, 2020

DesertRatTom said:
I posted this elsewhere, but think it belongs here instead regarding the bucket options:

My chip collectors are 30 gallon fiber drum with a lock-on steel top. A band goes around the lid and metal reinforcement at the top of the drum and seals the drum. The walls are thick and just won't implode. I got two of them new from Uline for about $50 each. The only down side is you can't tell how full it is. I think you could drill a peek hole in the top big enough to shine a light in, seal it with a clear plastic "window". The actual usable capacity is between 15 and 20 gallons with the Rockler system, and I think it might be higher with a DD. I have had to divide my shop - ran out of space, cutting, assembly in the shop, wood prep in the garage. Most will just need one barrel. https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail...YE9Q&gclsrc=ds

Here's a picture of the drum and Rockler setup. The steel top probably won't need reinforcement for the DD mount.

Uline drum with Rockler fittings.

@DesertRatTom - take a look at this idea for a "level gauge" for the collector bucket that I found surfing. Looks like it would work as long s you get a good seal on the wooden dowel - may be an idea to give it a couple coats of poly, sand smooth and a coat of wax. Be interested in knowing how it works if you give it a try - although substituting a section of aluminum tube for the dowel and a lip seal from the auto parts store for the grommet may be an idea to look at..

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RickKr

· #38 · Feb 2, 2020 (Edited)

Great job, excellent comparison and documentation.

I sure can't say anything about the second two, but my DD has been a great addition. Like you, I've not found much of any dust on the vac filter either. The DD collects and separates extremely well, as long as I keep the vac hoses connected and the vac ON... I have a foot pedal for, which really makes it nice to not have to get up or move from a working position to turn it On/Off. It does an excellent job keeping up with my DW735 planer, which is the machine that spits the greatest volume and rate of chips.

Rick

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bhethcote

· #39 · Mar 1, 2020

Nice comparison MEBCWD - fair and straightforward. I've seen a number of them on YouTube as well (some good, some less good). I ended up with a Dustopper and I'm very pleased with the results - less mess overall and what mess there is cleans up pretty easily.

In the bigger picture, any dust collection is better than no dust collection.

Keep making dust!

BH

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bhethcote

· #40 · Mar 2, 2020

2

Here's a couple of pics of my dust collection cart. It also ended up being a pretty handy place for clamps.

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