Router Forums banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,459 Posts
5 gal pails are a throw away item for painting contractors. Free to you if you'll just take them off their hands. Keep an eye open for new homes under construction; that's where you'll find them...they have to show up eventually, right? :)
Hose out the Latex paint buckets immediately, before the paint hardens; shouldn't be an issue as they usually just leave the lids on and use the poring spouts.
We use them in quantity for growing our tomato and cucumber plants. Damned if I'm gonna pay $4+ ea for something that's someone else's nuisance recycling item!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,456 Posts
@Sawdust74

Yup - I started with a homemade system using a Thein baffle, but eventually got a Dust Deputy. Found the Thein worked OK, but the Dust Deputy works so much better. There is very little dust/particles that get to the Ridgid's filter.

Pictures of both:
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,310 Posts
When I was using 5 gal. plastic buckets for my dust collector I had implosion problems when using them under my Dust Deputy. I found that most plastic buckets simply weren't rigid enough to survive the vacuum. In looking for a "better bucket" I found that the Firehouse Subs" stores were selling their used pickle buckets, which were significantly stronger than the available Lowes and Home Depot buckets, and the money that they collected from these bucket sales was being donated to the local fire companies. The only downside to using these pickle buckets is that your shop will smell like dill pickles for a while, unless you vent your dust collector to the outdoors.

All was good until I switched out my Shop Vac for a re-purposed whole house type central vacuum unit, which has a significantly higher vacuum level than a Shop Vac. All went well at first, until I was vacuuming the shop floor and picked up something that plugged the end of the hose. Almost immediately I heard a thump and when looking around for the source of this thump noise I found that my Firehouse Subs pickle bucket had imploded.

After studying the situation a bit I realized that the Firehouse pickle buckets are stronger than the Lowes and Home Depot buckets mostly because they have reinforcing ribs around the top 1/3 of these buckets. I was looking for a metal barrel to use under the Dust Deputy but I was not finding one easily, so I needed a way to make the Firehouse Subs pickle bucket even stronger. Then it dawned on me that if I stacked three of these Firehouse pickle buckets together that the top bucket would have 3X the wall thickness and the reinforcing ribs would be all the way down the length of the top bucket with them stacked together. I used my Dust Deputy and Central Vacuum unit for almost a year that way, before finding and replacing the 5 gal Firehouse buckets with a 20 gal. metal barrel.

If you have any imploding (collapsing ) problems with your plastic bucket, some of my information above should help you with a "stronger bucket" solution to your problem.

Charley
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,459 Posts
I fail to see the downside in having the shop smell like a deluxe burger! :)

Good stuff on the stacked bucket info, Charles. I take it that it works because the inner bucket can't deform sideways? If not that, why can't it crumple inwards?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,698 Posts
My chip collectors are 30 gallon fiber drum with a lock on steel top. A band goes around the lid and metal reinforcement at the top of the drum. It's thick and just won'd implode. I got two of them new from Uline for about $50 each. The only down side is you can't tell how full it is. I think you could drill a peek hole in the top big enough to shine a light in. The actual usable capacity is between 15 and 20 gallons with the Rockler system, and I think it might be higher with a DD. https://www.uline.com/Product/Detai...08&gclid=CJGZ6qSi19sCFTWpZQodijYE9Q&gclsrc=ds
 

Attachments

·
Retired Moderator
Joined
·
16,385 Posts
I fail to see the downside in having the shop smell like a deluxe burger! :)

Good stuff on the stacked bucket info, Charles. I take it that it works because the inner bucket can't deform sideways? If not that, why can't it crumple inwards?
If you can prevent deformation then strength tends to increase substantially. Think about the cross blocking on floor joists. Although part of their function is load sharing they also prevent the joists from twisting. Flanges on a I beam do the same thing. I joists are another. a 10" wide strip of 7/16 OSB wouldn't hold up much on its own but if you can keep it vertical and not twist it will hold you and all your furniture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Herb Stoops

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,310 Posts
The effect of stacking the buckets triples the wall thickness so it stays round and the additional ribs all the way down the top bucket further prevent collapsing. You still only have 5 gallon of capacity and it's located a bit higher than floor level, but it ended the collapsing problem for my system completely. Someone with only a Shop Vac could probably get away with using only two stacked buckets, and it might even work with two white, orange, or grey buckets from the Borgs. The stacking idea was what I wanted to get across. The firehouse Subs pickle buckets are also definitely stronger than the Borg buckets too, if you don't mind the smell for a month or so. They are considerably cheaper than the Borg buckets too. These are just some creative ideas for quickly solving your collapsing bucket problems at a reasonable cost, if you should experience this. The more powerful your vacuum source is, the more likely you will experience a collapsed bucket. Go with a round metal barrel and you won't have any collapsing problems.

My 20 gallon metal barrel will likely not need to be dumped for about 3 years or more in my system, and this is good, because it's located in my shop attic. To use the metal barrel I made a lid from two layers of 3/4 cabinet birch plywood and caulk sealed them together using screws to pull the caulked joint together. The lower layer just fits inside the barrel. The top layer is 2" larger all the way around so it readily sits on top of the barrel and provides a lifting point as well. I used 1" wide closed cell foam Weatherstrip attached to the under side of the upper layer of the lid where it would contact the rolled top edge of the barrel to seal between the top edge of the barrel and the birch lid. When I mounted the Dust Deputy to the top of this lid I also used caulk to seal this joint. No leaks could be found on the first try, so this method is working well.

Sorry for the sideways photos. But they show the first collapsed Firehouse Subs bucket and then the before and after of my central vacuum with the metal barrel finally installed. I don't think I ever took any photos of the three Firehouse Subs buckets stacked together. The last photo also shows the exhaust port (above the vacuum) where it exits my shop building under the eave of the roof. I just used the plastic flap door fitting for central vacuum systems on the outside wall of the shop, seating it in caulking to keep the rain from getting behind it. When running the vacuum, it kind of sounds like a far off jet plane, but it's pointed to the North and lake side of my shop. I've asked both neighbors if it bothered them and they said "NO", but I didn't ask or care if the Canadian Geese residents of the lake minded, and I don't care if it bothers them. They bother me plenty by decorating my sidewalks and driveway. b

Charley
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Theo
Joined
·
7,194 Posts
I'm gonna pay $4+ ea for something that's someone else's nuisance recycling item!


Exactly. It's something like, why buy it, when you can make it. There is all sorts of things you can use them for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
Exactly. It's something like, why buy it, when you can make it. There is all sorts of things you can use them for.
Cost $3.93 ONLY
Can't make one cheaper.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Theo
Joined
·
7,194 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,698 Posts
Shop made cyclone build. Several others shown on youtube. One of the keys is getting the angle on the intake. You could use a really large cone ot make a cone yourself.


The minicyclone would require 2-4 total to handle planer or table saw output.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
Please read Bill Penz's research and FREE design First

If you want your DIY cyclone to capture even fine toxic dust,
you need to read Bill Penz's research and copy his FREE design plans.
Dust Collection Research - Home

DIY cyclones without scientific knowledge are NOT effective against Health Hazards from fine Toxic Dusts.

Bill Penz's design is 100% implemented by CLEARVUE cyclones ONLY.

I did built one using galvanised iron based on Bill Penz's design but it might be better to buy a ClearVue cyclone if you can afford it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,310 Posts
That's why my central vacuum system with Dust Deputy is vented to the outdoors. The combination works very well for my needs, but using it and checking the dust container in the bottom of the central vacuum has shown that the Dust Deputy separates out almost all of the dust, but the micron sized dust does get past it and some of this dust collects on the sides of the central vacuums container. Since the filter in the central vacuum is only fabric, I'm certain that a lot of this micro fine dust is getting through it. This is my main reason for venting the system to the outdoors. It keeps every bit of the collected dust, including the micron and sub micron sized dust from getting back into my shop's air. Now, if I could get this system to collect 100% of the saw dust I would have a perfect system. Sadly, it's too small to use with my planer, chop saw, and table saw. The planer gets used outside the shop with a hose, barrel cover, and 55 gallon plastic chip collection barrel, so the dust from it is never inside my shop. This leaves my chop saw and Unisaw as the major sources of sawdust in my shop air that I have yet to find a good solution for that will also fit in my small shop. Fortunately, most of the saw dust from the Unisaw gets contained in it's cabinet.

Charley
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,698 Posts
Reuelt's post links to an excellent website with loads of information about dust collection. Well worth reading. A couple of points made it clear that I need to find a way to vent exhaust to the outside. After reading, I think I'd be wise to add a small outside housing for the entire DC system, including chip collector with a small port for flex hose attachment coming through the wall so it can be moved to any tool. This will also open up floor space.

As I look at my shop with fresh eyes, I can see sawdust in crevases, behind and around objects on shelves, and mixed in with cutoffs and other small items laying on the floor in difficult to reach areas. This suggests a serious cleanup is in order. The shop is designed with a 16 inch clear space between floor and any shelving or hanging tools.

My Rockler ventilated mask is great, but lives in a dust free tub, so I often forget to use it. So I'm creating a simple and very accessable spot to store it in easy reach. I can also see that I need to establish an iron clad rule: Walk in the shop and put that mask on before doing anything else.

I have a cutoff bin, but it is not handy, and if uncovered, that bin is a dust trap! Needs to have some sort of cover. All stacked wood in the shop is a dust trap, so it has to go, or be stored in a closable shelf. Some original though is overdue. There's a 4 ft. wide space between my outside shop and a small office shed. By putting up a simple roof over that space, I can store items out there, or even put the DC unit there. It is about 10 ft long so I could also store wood there, and even use the space for the DC unit. I'll have to enclose that space, which may be a challenge since nothing's really square there.

I'm having breathing problems these days, and I've been working in my dusty shop for a little over 10 years now. If I'm going to continue, it's urgent that I take action on this now.

I also bought a dust collection hood for the table saw and it sits, uninstalled, collecting sawdust, in my shop. It's a must to get that installed. There's a device called the Shark Guard that is simpler and cheaper that has a decent reputation for pulling top side dust off the table saw blade.

Since we're musing here, the most serious offender in the shop is the sliding miter saw. By building an 8-8 foot square "porch" onto the shop, I could easily move it outdoors for use, and that alone would go a long way toward cleaning up the shop air.

All of this is closing the barn door after the horses were stolen, so I'm sharing it not just for me, but for all of us who love woodworking and want to keep at it for the long haul.

First thing is fessing up to the reality of my shop conditions and my careless ways...and I'm more careful than most, yet cleaning out the shop is almost impossible given its present messy condition. And one thing you can now count on, I'll have that mask on during the cleanup and from now on, every time I step into the shop.

The WEN ceiling mounted air filter will also be running at least 4 hours after doing any project in there. I'm tapping my "secret" money stash to get started right away. I'll try to take pictures as I go. Thanks reuelt for the wake up.

Here's my action list:

Set up an easy access box for my dust mask.

Cover the space between sheds.
Put a level plywood floor under that cover.
If there's room, move the DC out there
If there isn't room, build a lean-to on the back of the shed for DC.
Punch through the wall and install a 4 inch port.

Build an 8x8 platform level with the shop door
Remove the present miter saw DC station
Relocate the sliding miter to near the door
Level floor and platform so saw rolls out easily.

Gather all cutoffs and place in a handy bin.
Use canvas or some other material to cover the bin.

Clean out all other items that fill the 16 inch clear space.
Suck up all sawdust hiding in corners and behind/beneath tools.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
Venting Outside may NOT be ideal

Although venting Outside makes a cleaner workshop it may not be always feasible
1. if you need aircond or heating
2. If you live in a City or a suburb where outside means neighbours house.

Bill Penz design (as sold by ClearVue) captures 99.9% of fine dust into the bin BEFORE the HEPA filters so air being returned back to the workshop is fairly clean.

I have proven Bill Penz's 2" design (DIY) by installing Made in USA SHOPVAC brand relatively expensive "drywall bag filter" + SHOPVAC HEPA cartridge filter in my Shopvac and those filters are always clean since almost all (>99.9%) fine dusts are in the big container below the cyclone.
I won't use another brand Vacuum cleaner because they don't sell "dry wall filter bags" for fine dusts that can be used at the same time with a HEPA cartridge filter.


Another reason I won't simply vent air outside is my (maybe paranoidal) fear of more CO (Carbon Monoxide) or herbicides being sucked into the workshop thru the door or windows when filtered air is simply vented outside. Badly tuned Vehicles passing by and 2-strokes Lawn Mowers exhaust have high concentration of CO until dispersed. Neighbours may sometimes use herbicides sprays in their garden or farm.

JUST FYI ONLY.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,698 Posts
I took some measurements today and worked out how to cover the space between the two sheds, as well as worked out a way to put a solid floor between the two. Each shed has a 2x holding in the crushed stone base on which the sheds sit. There's about 1.5 inches difference between the two shed's retainer height. So I'm going lay two rails out that fits between the two 2bys. Then 2x planks between the rails to form a floor. The planks will be very close spaced so I can roll stuff around on them.

Turns out the two shed walls are pretty close to parallel at 50 inches apart, so I can run a 12 foot long 2x4 high up on the walls and use 4 ft 2x4 spans to cover with sheet goods and some left over roll roffing. I'll slice some 2x4s on an angle and use them to fill the leftover space, then cover that angle with aluminum to seal it from rain and form a channel for runoff. Since two shed roofs spill runoff on this top, I'll get a water storage tank and water some plants with it.

I'll get some material tomorrow morning. I have two 2x8 planks as shelves on the side of the shed, I'll take those down and use them for the floor decking. The roof will also keep the rain off the power sub panel for the shop.

I think I'll break this out into a new project post.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top