[Joe Lyddon]

This is easy and Very Safe!

Source:
Woodsmith #170 Vol. 29 Page 16

1. Make your template... 3/4" MDF
The inside of your bowl... mark it, cut it, sand it.
Drill screw holes in each corner; in a ways not to interfere with main bowl.
... out of a blank 18.75" x 10"


2. Prepare the parts; yes, parts... all being 15.75" x 7" of varied thicknesses.
Plane, sand, and glue them together.
For the Oval bowl, they used:
Three planks of 1/4" Padauk
Three planks of Maple; 1-3/16", 3/8", 3/8" (bottom toward top)
Ultimate sequence, Top down, will be:
Padauk 1/4"
Maple 3/8"
Padauk 1/4"
Maple 3/8"
Padauk 1/4"
Maple 1-3/16"


3. Route out the inside of the bowl...
Place template on top, screw it on, fully route (hog out) out the pattern.
You could start out with a straight bit and hog out most of the insides...
Then switch to a bowl / tray bit (with bearing) and route around the edge using a collet extension to get to bottom.


4. With a compass or simple marking gauge w/ pencil, mark the width (maybe 3/8" to allow for sanding) around the bowl from the inside of the bowl.


5. Band saw cut out the outside of the bowl.


6. Roundover the top edges 1/8"... Bottom 1/2" roundover.


7. Sand, using belt sander, the outside...

They didn't mention how to Finish them... mineral oil, I guess... (?)

They even show you how to make an 11" square 3/8" clear acrylic baseplate to be used with your router!

They show you four bowls... Plain Oval, Casserole rectangular type, Circular, and a Divided one. All done with just ONE template.

Check it out...

 

[template tom]

Joe
does that mean the material thickness is nearly 2-3/4" thick.
How deep is the bowl internal depth? You certainly will need a collet extension to produce the depth.

What about showing some pics of the process as I am sure most router users would require more details before attempting such a project. Or I could be wrong.

I would certainly be interested in their comments.

If my memory serves me correctly there was a similar elliptical bowl with two sections and swivel lids some time ago using the method outlined which as a matter of interest I was not in favour of the process at that time.

What you have outlined seems similar to the previous method
Joe have you tried the method????
Tom

 

[template tom]

Joe
I had a look at my drawing folder as I remember drawing the project out as there was little details of the size of the object at that time
Enclosed drawing

 

[Joe Lyddon]

Joe
does that mean the material thickness is nearly 2-3/4" thick.

Yes, 2.6875" thick.

How deep is the bowl internal depth? You certainly will need a collet extension to produce the depth.

The depth of the cut is about 2 5/16"...
Yes, they used a collet extension.
The "Bowl and Tray" bit they used has a bearing right on top of the cutter section so you are basically extending the intial Pattern after each cut around the Pattern (like a flush trim cut to the Pattern). They made each cut / pass 3/16" deep. They left the bottom thickness to be about 3/8" thick.

What about showing some pics of the process as I am sure most router users would require more details before attempting such a project. Or I could be wrong.

I think if I scanned and displayed pictures from their magazine, I would be breaking copyright rules... I think I have described it OK... really very simple.

I would certainly be interested in their comments.

If my memory serves me correctly there was a similar elliptical bowl with two sections and swivel lids some time ago using the method outlined which as a matter of interest I was not in favour of the process at that time.

Their 'divided' bowl is similar to your drawing (of next post) except theirs went straight across the center, with rounded bit corners. They just flopped the pattern over from left side to right side to cut each side leaving the uncut section in the middle.

They have a casserole dish, with extended handles on each end, all same wood.

Their divided and round bowls had a Padauk top only rim.

What you have outlined seems similar to the previous method
Joe have you tried the method????
Tom

I'm not sure what 'previous' method you're referring to...

I have not tried the method... I just received the magazine in the mail... It seemed so simple and straight forward, I felt I had to report it.

The Template is actually screwed down to the outside corners of the bowl blanks... when fully hogged out, they merely used a marking gauge, with pencil, to mark the 3/8" thick sides using the inside cut as the reference. Then, they just cut it on a band saw, rounded the rims and bottom, then belt sanded.

If you can give me an idea of what pictures you'd like to see, maybe I can make my own drawing(s) to describe it without violating copyright laws.

 

[template tom]

Joe

What I was really interested in was someone having a go with the method before posting as an 'Easily Routed Bowl'
I do believe a trial should have been done before you consider it an easy project. Or were you just quoting the magazine?

The previous method I was referring to was the method of routing the shaped dish I submitted in the drawing. I must confess that I did not make the dish as I considered it was not the safest way go about it. In fact there was even a problem re the dimensions before I could get started to produce the drawings. Woodsmith usually produce wonderful drawings for the majorty of their projects.

I am not really in favour of the top bearing cutter for this type of projects as I prefer the template guide with the various cutters as I consider this to be a safer method.

I am still hopeful that some members of this forum will take up the challenge and produce projects with the use of the guides and submit their results for all to see.

Tom

 

[Joe Lyddon]

Joe

What I was really interested in was someone having a go with the method before posting as an 'Easily Routed Bowl'
I do believe a trial should have been done before you consider it an easy project. Or were you just quoting the magazine?

The previous method I was referring to was the method of routing the shaped dish I submitted in the drawing. I must confess that I did not make the dish as I considered it was not the safest way go about it. In fact there was even a problem re the dimensions before I could get started to produce the drawings. Woodsmith usually produce wonderful drawings for the majorty of their projects.

I am not really in favour of the top bearing cutter for this type of projects as I prefer the template guide with the various cutters as I consider this to be a safer method.

I am still hopeful that some members of this forum will take up the challenge and produce projects with the use of the guides and submit their results for all to see.

Tom

OK, Tom, I found something that you can look at... a short video that actually shows what I was trying to describe. You can now watch someone do it and see how simple it is.

http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/170/videos/routed-bowls/

The following is the way they described the article:

"You can make great-looking wood bowls without turning or carving.
A template and simple router accessories make it easy."

Since Woodsmith is one of my favorite magazines, I, among others I'm sure, will vouch for them... when they "make it easy", they really mean it.
After reading and studying the arcticle, I too, felt that would be easy to do.

I think if one wanted to, they could use a Guide on the template instead of using a Bearing fitted cutter... if they wanted to.

 

[challagan]

Hi Joe, thanks for the link. That is pretty cool and easy! My only concern would be the extension in the router.... having never used one I wonder how well they work in most routers... do they stay tight... add run out, vibration etc. with such a big bit.

Thanks again for the link, I viewed a bunch of their video, some good quick little videos.

Corey

 

[Joe Lyddon]

Hi Joe, thanks for the link. That is pretty cool and easy! My only concern would be the extension in the router.... having never used one I wonder how well they work in most routers... do they stay tight... add run out, vibration etc. with such a big bit.

Thanks again for the link, I viewed a bunch of their video, some good quick little videos.

Corey

Hi Corey...

I did a search on Amazon and found these links...

Extender - MLCS - (must be good)
http://www.amazon.com/MLCS-Router-C...13-8549747?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1174434807&sr=8-1

The Bowl & Tray bit they used... (CMT)
http://www.amazon.com/CMT-851-501-1...3-8549747?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1174435077&sr=8-16

I was hoping there would be some reviews... but didn't see any...
Both are made by good companies... I think they should be safe enough, using normal precautions that we all do when it comes to router bits...

I like their short videos too... I find myself watching, watching, and watching them... addicting & very informative.

Here are the sanding pads they used... 3" size...
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49254&cat=1,42500

Hope this helps...

 

[bobj3]

Now That's a GOOD ONE Joe

I hope Mark puts that up as sticky, It shows how to make a bowl from sq.1 to the end....with the plunge router.
It's hard to cache the part about the ( the brass/steel guide ) I had to view 3 times to get it , the brass guide is in place when the bit is put in to the router and below the guide,in that way you don't need to use a BIG guide just a standard guide (1 1/2" ID) will do the job, the only thing that's need if the 8" or 11" sq. base plate (MAYBE) and the Extender to get down inside deep.

I have both 1/4" and 1/2" (Extender) and they are safe but I also have 3/8" and 1/2" router bits that are 4" long with 3" long cutting blades that way you don't need to use the Extender for the bit unless you want a round inside bottom but the sanding pad should do that just fine.

NOTE** the 1/4" Extender has a smaller collet nut (just checked on it ,it's 18mm) than the big one on the 1/2" Extender I think it will pass in a 1" ID brass guide,so that's to say you can use a standard 1/4" shank bottom bit that one can get for 6.oo bucks to get the inside bottom done.

Long bit ▼
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-pc-1-4-SH-3-B...emZ130092352317QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItem

Dish Cutter Bit, 1/4" Shank
http://www.grizzly.com/products/c1356

Bj


"You can now watch someone do it and see how simple it is."


http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/170/videos/routed-bowls/

 

[challagan]

Yeah, MLCS has a good one and I would use one to get a little more length out of a shorter bit but not sure with a big old bit like that. It is a cool process, but I would have a hard time taking my good flat stock and hogging all that waste out. Seems like an awful waste of good hardwood I quit making scroll saw boxes for that reason.. fun there is so much waste. I am more thrifty with my wood and stock budget!

Corey

 

[Joe Lyddon]

Yeah Bob!

I was going back to the article to get more detail on resourses for Tom and just happen to see the link about that movie!! What a great way to show Tom what I was talking about!! Hope he can get it!

Glad you like (like I do!).

Thank you.

 

[template tom]

Yeah Bob!

I was going back to the article to get more detail on resourses for Tom and just happen to see the link about that movie!! What a great way to show Tom what I was talking about!! Hope he can get it!

Glad you like (like I do!).

Thank you.

Hi Joe
Thanks for that, the video showed exactly what I was expecting as it was exactly the same method they used in the previous article with the design I submitted.

That would have made it very clear to anyone wishing to rout a dish that depth. There was some mention in one of the postings that it was completed with the router in the plunge mode well that was not really the case as the band saw was used to cut the external surface then a sander was used to finish it off, and finally the base was rounded over in the router table.

My concern is that the rough material could have been removed first with a straight cutter as it is easier to control the router with a straight cutter rather than a large Dish cutter. The cutter had to be larger than the diameter of the Chuck (Collet) of course. Also using the dish cutter to rout out so much of the waste material by the time it got to produce the final cut it could be requiring sharpening.

If I were to do the project first I would have to purchase a suitable extension.
I would make the template that little bigger (There is a need to workout the 'offset' to increase the size.)

I would secure the material to a simple jig within a simple jig holder. Harrysin has shown in previous postings a modified holder he was using to accommodate the thicker material he was routing, only it was a rectangular box.

The template would be made the same size as the Jig Holder (No need to screw it down)

I would also Rout the outside edge to produce a wall thickness that was constant in width. There is no way that cutting with the band saw will produce the desired results.

To achieve this I would require to produce a 'plug' that would fit neatly into the dish, then with the aid of a template guide and a straight cutter I would rout in stages to the required depth. (I would not rout all the way through)
Also what is very important is to achieve a straight side I would use a set of 'Skis'.

I would trim of the majority of the waste material to leave a small section for trimming with the trimming cutter.

To trim of the waste material screw the 'Plug' to a sacrificial board (Upside down) and again with the set of skis rout the edge.

It's time I completed my DVDs

Tom

 

[Joe Lyddon]

Hi Tom,

I'm glad you were able to see the video OK.

I agree with you on using a straight bit to cut out most of the center... finishing up with the bowl cutter (I think I mentioned that in my first post).

My VERY FIRST thought was to cut each plank BEFORE the glue-up using a jig like yours to force good registration. Any ole straight bit could be used, etc. with a template and guide bushing. Then glue them together and finish it with the Bowl cutter with extension, etc.

... I just thought that the outside trim could also be done while unglued... that would cut down on a lot of extra work... wouldn't it? What do you think of the unglued approach?

I'm not sure what you have against the bandsaw, sanding, & routing the edges... Harry did the same thing except it was just bottom 'holding' strip he cut with the bandsaw after routing down the outside edge. Is the bandsaw off limits? If you like the routed cut finish, why not cut the biggest part off with the bandsaw, then go to the router to finish it up...? ... leaving only a small amount of router cutting.

Good luck on your DVD's.

 

[Mike]

Joe, the answer about the band saw is this: The router will give you a nice clean finish from the start so why make the additional step of using the bandsaw? By the same token your way makes sense too. There is more than one way to complete this project and we will never get everyone to agree on a single method. Lets just call it a difference of opinion and leave it at that.

 

[harrysin]

The "routed" bowl

Thanks Mike for bringing some sanity into this "discussion"
I get the distinct impression that guys with no actual experience of a particular method have very firm beliefs in which is the correct one! Tom, and myself have for years used the old methods, (we are both into our seventies) but Tom has developed better methods for carring out various routing proceedures and these methods have been refined over the years.I and I'm sure Tom do not expect everyone to drop methods that they have used for years, but to just try them,there could be some surprises!
My routed box with lid is ready for posting but my computer is in hopital,I'm using my wifes' machine for this post and it doesn't have my photographs.Harry

 

[harrysin]

"safe project"

Joe,regarding using a collet extension,you may recall,or re-check my post,that I purchased a half inch CMT extension at a high cost to rout my box.There are two reasons why I doubt that I shall use it again
1...It is VERY noisy,which I guess is vibration
2...I consider it to be unsafe because the cutter cannot be retracted into the router so several inches of cutter/extension are protruding from the router,hardly a SAFE method.
Has anyone else had experience with these extensions,if so what are YOU'RE thoughts.
Cheers Joe, Harry
I just realised that I may have given the impression that I won't be routing more deep boxes, I certainly will but will settle for sharp internal corners by using a long straight cutter. Harry

 

[template tom]

"I'm not sure what you have against the bandsaw, sanding, & routing the edges... Harry did the same thing except it was just bottom 'holding' strip he cut with the bandsaw after routing down the outside edge. Is the bandsaw off limits? If you like the routed cut finish, why not cut the biggest part off with the bandsaw, then go to the router to finish it up...? ... leaving only a small amount of router cutting"

Joe
Certainly the band saw is not off limits. Today I was routing the chair legs using 32mm thick American Oak and there was no way I was going to use a bearing cutter and a 'Male' Template The pics I posted earlier shows the 'Female' Templates in position routing to a reasonable depth (not all the way through leaving 5 - 6mm for trimming with the router.
Tom

 

[template tom]

"... I just thought that the outside trim could also be done while unglued... that would cut down on a lot of extra work... wouldn't it? What do you think of the unglued approach?"

Sorry Joe
I did not complete the posting you had submitted.

I do not think trimming the outside before gluing would be the answer. I see lots of problems when gluing them all together then there is the other problem of holding the material when routing out the inside.
That is only my feeling on the matter
Tom

 

[Joe Lyddon]

Joe, the answer about the band saw is this: The router will give you a nice clean finish from the start so why make the additional step of using the bandsaw? By the same token your way makes sense too. There is more than one way to complete this project and we will never get everyone to agree on a single method. Lets just call it a difference of opinion and leave it at that.

Mike,

I was not trying to get everyone to agree to just ONE method.

I was merely trying to explore some alternative methods to SOME methods, not necesarily ALL methods.

I agree with you...

I don't think alternative methods want to be discussed in this thread or other related threads, so why try?

This thread started by just reporting a new Woodsmith article on bowl making... eventually, even a video was available to everyone so they could see all methods used in making their bowl. We can't even agree with the published methods of Woodsmith magazine! :sold:

 

[template tom]

Mike,

I was not trying to get everyone to agree to just ONE method.

I was merely trying to explore some alternative methods to SOME methods, not necessarily ALL methods.

I agree with you...

I don't think alternative methods want to be discussed in this thread or other related threads, so why try?

This thread started by just reporting a new Woodsmith article on bowl making... eventually, even a video was available to everyone so they could see all methods used in making their bowl. We can't even agree with the published methods of Woodsmith magazine! :sold:

Joe
I know you were not trying to get everyone to agree to one method as you said you were only trying to explore alternative methods to some methods not to all methods as you say.

Sorry all if I have upset any others with my reply to the published article by Woodsmith posted by Joe.

I am sure we all have read an article in many magazines where we consider an alternative method would be better if it was approached from a different angle and we go ahead and change it, and this one was no exception. Because it has been published by a reputable source, does not mean we cannot comment on the procedure used. I have taken other publications and changed the method of construction of a number of projects on many occasions.

I appreciate Joe bringing forward the project and then finding the video to make his explanation of construction clearer but this does not mean that is the best way to produce the boxes. I only hope that anyone going to try to produce the boxes will give careful consideration to safety awareness.

I had my concerns on the depth of the box requiring the use of the 'Extender' and Harry's comments has confirmed my belief that the extender is not really the answer to the problem. I am only happy I suggested to Harry that he does not purchase the cheaper version.

Any article put forward on this forum no matter where it comes from should be open to constructive criticism. (I have received many comments on what I have posted) which I accept. Nobody has to follow or use the method I use if they do not want to but at least I am offering an alternative solution to the problem. You can take it or leave it.
Tom