My point was and still is that many people, including most of the group I consider master woodworkers, still refer to the box joint as first being a finger joint. When someone says finger joint it's not a given that they are talking about splicing lumber. If you paid attention to the sources in the links I gave you saw some very respectable sources referring to what you call a box joint as a finger joint, the reason being that the individual projections are called fingers and that when joined together they look like interlaced fingers, no matter what size they are. It's how I refer to them because that's how I learned to refer to them a very long time ago. You guys can argue all you want to but unless you know a way to change history then the traditional way to refer to that joint is as a finger joint.
Finger Joints & Plywood
Well as I hone my old rusty skills and learn new ones I have started another project for my shop by way of a hanging tool cabinet. The plans I'm using are from a Woodsmith book titles Shop Cabinets & Tool Stands. In this plan the box sides are all hardwood while the door panels and back are plywood. As I'm a bit short on hardwoods at the moment and have 10 sheets of plywood I asked myself why not make it all from plywood? I have an Incra IBox Jig which I've had very little practice with but am wondering if plywood could work well for this joint? I can't imagine a reason not and research hasn't turned up any negatives but I'd like to ask those who have the experience for suggestions. And yes, I can get hardwood but I thought the ply is cheaper, already on hand, and maybe a good practice exercise that may turn out just fine. Any thoughts?
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It's unfortunate that box joints have become called finger joints. It confuses the issue. Finger joints are made with long, skinny, pointy elements and are used to join flat parts to make them longer. At least in the commercial world that's what "finger joint" means. They are almost always done on high speed automated lines. I bet if you put "finger joint" into YouTube you can watch one of those line run. And yes you can make them with a shaper or even a router but gluing them up is a PIA.
calling it what it isn't till it's accepted doesn't make it a correct descriptive...My point was and still is that many people, including most of the group I consider master woodworkers, still refer to the box joint as first being a finger joint. When someone says finger joint it's not a given that they are talking about splicing lumber. If you paid attention to the sources in the links I gave you saw some very respectable sources referring to what you call a box joint as a finger joint, the reason being that the individual projections are called fingers and that when joined together they look like interlaced fingers, no matter what size they are. It's how I refer to them because that's how I learned to refer to them a very long time ago. You guys can argue all you want to but unless you know a way to change history then the traditional way to refer to that joint is as a finger joint.
an element of a box joint is called a finger..
but the final product is a box joint...
it is not a finger joint...
so call it what its, a box joint...
let's call the receiver for the ''finger'' a pocket... so now we have a pocket joint???
Have you noticed that posts about tapered finger joints require a picture and a long string of posts when they ask about a finger joint when they mean box joint? So first thing, we have to have either a picture or drawing or explanation to know whether they're talking about a box, or a finger joint? That is evidence that misuse of the terms leads to confusion, and long argumentative strings like this one.
The only way to correct this is a lifelong campaign of reaching every tool maker, every fixit guy who is making videos, responding to every article that misuses the terms and correcting them. And then, some guy in a garage in Idaho will misuse the term and the process starts again. So we'll probably keep arguing one side vs the other around here, and we'll probably repeat this string endlessly to some of our frustration, and for others, to their satisfaction. Clarity or ambiguity.. Which is better?
The only way to correct this is a lifelong campaign of reaching every tool maker, every fixit guy who is making videos, responding to every article that misuses the terms and correcting them. And then, some guy in a garage in Idaho will misuse the term and the process starts again. So we'll probably keep arguing one side vs the other around here, and we'll probably repeat this string endlessly to some of our frustration, and for others, to their satisfaction. Clarity or ambiguity.. Which is better?
Been here, done that, got over it.....
good news, I may be right after all!!!
Bad news, I could be wrong?????
Good news, I really don't care!!
good news, I may be right after all!!!
Bad news, I could be wrong?????
Good news, I really don't care!!
@CharleyL
I'm tellin' ya Charlie, everytime I see those boxes, I just want to go down to the shop and get started on a set. Affordable, practicable and
just damn fine lookin'!!!!!
I'm tellin' ya Charlie, everytime I see those boxes, I just want to go down to the shop and get started on a set. Affordable, practicable and
just damn fine lookin'!!!!!
Well, I guess I'll enter the discussion.
A "box joint" is typically used to join two boards at a corner. The protrusions are commonly known as "fingers".
A "tapered finger joint" is used to elongate a board "end to end".
From FineWoodworking, September 2005:
"The box joint, sometimes called a finger joint, interlocks two boards at a corner. It is similar to a dovetail (with the grain going in the same direction), however, instead of angled tails and pins, box-joint fingers are straight.
From "The Complete Illustrated Guide to Joinery", by Gary Rogowski:
On page 128, he refers to a box joint as "a finger joint" and further, on page 266 he refers to the "other" joint as a "tapered finger splice joint"
Having said that, typically when a member asks a question or makes a comment regarding a "case" or joining the corners of two boards, they are generally referring to a "box joint" or "finger joint". Rarely does anyone ask about, or comment on, elongating two boards, or splicing them.
The OP may have titled his thread as "finger joint" but in the text in post 1, he did refer to making a "hanging tool cabinet" and further stated that he had the "IBox jig".
So his intentions were clear and this discussion is for naught as he was clear in his description of his project and "wasn't wrong in his title".
When you make a dovetail joint, you refer to the elements as "tails" and "pins".
So, when you make a box joint, how do you refer to the elements???? As boxes?? Nope, as fingers.
Some of you may not agree but it is what it is - experts have long called the "box joint" a "finger joint" - and I do consider Gary Rogowski an expert.
A "box joint" is typically used to join two boards at a corner. The protrusions are commonly known as "fingers".
A "tapered finger joint" is used to elongate a board "end to end".
From FineWoodworking, September 2005:
"The box joint, sometimes called a finger joint, interlocks two boards at a corner. It is similar to a dovetail (with the grain going in the same direction), however, instead of angled tails and pins, box-joint fingers are straight.
From "The Complete Illustrated Guide to Joinery", by Gary Rogowski:
On page 128, he refers to a box joint as "a finger joint" and further, on page 266 he refers to the "other" joint as a "tapered finger splice joint"
Having said that, typically when a member asks a question or makes a comment regarding a "case" or joining the corners of two boards, they are generally referring to a "box joint" or "finger joint". Rarely does anyone ask about, or comment on, elongating two boards, or splicing them.
The OP may have titled his thread as "finger joint" but in the text in post 1, he did refer to making a "hanging tool cabinet" and further stated that he had the "IBox jig".
So his intentions were clear and this discussion is for naught as he was clear in his description of his project and "wasn't wrong in his title".
When you make a dovetail joint, you refer to the elements as "tails" and "pins".
So, when you make a box joint, how do you refer to the elements???? As boxes?? Nope, as fingers.
Some of you may not agree but it is what it is - experts have long called the "box joint" a "finger joint" - and I do consider Gary Rogowski an expert.
It all depends on which finger and which joint on the finger you are talking about. Every night when I go to bed i remember how thankful I am I have all my fingers and finger joints after all these years of working with power tools.
Herb
Herb
What do Boxes, fingers and cannabis all have in common................JOINTS.
Herb
Herb
Sorry guys......I didn't mean to create this all this ruckus. How about we call what I made "Square Finger Joints" versus the other "Taper Finger Joints" for joining boards end to end "board stretcher style", but we still can't fix this mess here. It's a global woodworking problem that I believe was created by the woodworking tool sales people, some of who sell woodworking tools, but don't know the first thing about them or the differences between them. I think it's now way beyond fixing. That's why I always ask the question as to which one the poster is referring to.
Charley
Charley
Don't worry Charley, we like to thrash about on issues like this. We've had our say and are satisfied, for now at least.
You missed a lot of the conversation Larry. They were always called finger joints until only recently when, as Charley pointed out, the manufacturers started referring to them as something else. The ones with tapered fingers were called just that or were called splice joints. If you find old literature, that will be the nomenclature you find. When I read articles in Fine Woodworking almost all of their contributors refer to a box joint as a finger joint. Most of those guys went through a training period by old masters. One of the very first contributors to FWW was Tage Frid (pronounced Tay) who was a Danish born and educated master. I'm not sure if FWW would have made it without him. He was trained the old fashioned (European) way and started as an apprentice in a traditional European wood shop. That's what he called the joint in his book on how to make wood joints. It's an excellent book by the way, one of the best woodworking books I've ever read. So that was how he was taught by an even older master than himself. And so on, and so on, and so on.It's unfortunate that box joints have become called finger joints. It confuses the issue. Finger joints are made with long, skinny, pointy elements and are used to join flat parts to make them longer. At least in the commercial world that's what "finger joint" means. They are almost always done on high speed automated lines. I bet if you put "finger joint" into YouTube you can watch one of those line run. And yes you can make them with a shaper or even a router but gluing them up is a PIA.
Maybe one day the terminology will change. Ain't was't in the dictionary when I was young but it is now. Maybe one day no one will refer to it as a finger joint anymore but for now you can still find as many or more references to it being a finger joint and those references are from professional sources. In the mean time the one thing that should happen is for everyone to quit correcting people who call it the other term. It IS a finger joint. It also IS a box joint. Both are correct.
and this all boiled down says to eat dung because 500 bazillion flies can't possibly be wrong...You missed a lot of the conversation Larry. They were always called finger joints until only recently when, as Charley pointed out, the manufacturers started referring to them as something else. The ones with tapered fingers were called just that or were called splice joints. If you find old literature, that will be the nomenclature you find. When I read articles in Fine Woodworking almost all of their contributors refer to a box joint as a finger joint. Most of those guys went through a training period by old masters. One of the very first contributors to FWW was Tage Frid (pronounced Tay) who was a Danish born and educated master. I'm not sure if FWW would have made it without him. He was trained the old fashioned (European) way and started as an apprentice in a traditional European wood shop. That's what he called the joint in his book on how to make wood joints. It's an excellent book by the way, one of the best woodworking books I've ever read. So that was how he was taught by an even older master than himself. And so on, and so on, and so on.
Maybe one day the terminology will change. Ain't was't in the dictionary when I was young but it is now. Maybe one day no one will refer to it as a finger joint anymore but for now you can still find as many or more references to it being a finger joint and those references are from professional sources. In the mean time the one thing that should happen is for everyone to quit correcting people who call it the other term. It IS a finger joint. It also IS a box joint. Both are correct.
Doncha love a food fight, Larry and Moe? I was having some trouble making a wanglewhoozer joint the other day, because the tapered box from the Orange place was trapezoidal rather than curvalinear. So my fence had to be tapered instead.
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