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#### edbd1100

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Hello,
I know this isn't a routing question persay, but does any body here get the Woodsmith Magazine?
There Fourm is down and I need help...
I have a question about the plans for the fold out picture frame in April/May 2006 Vol.28/No.164 page 16.
I'm really confused and need some new eyes to give me there take on this, if you would be so kind, please!!!!!
It states (page 20 'The Doors' ) that when building the doors that the grooves and assembly is the same as used for the back frame, except for some slight dimensional differences.
So when you look at page 20 (F) appears to be 5-1/2 x 15/16 and cut like (A) on page 18 or is it 7/8 like (E)?
Are there 2 (F's) and 2 (G's), if so how is (G) cut, like (B)?
And Dim'd like (B)?
And is (F) like (A)?
That would make (E) like (C)?
I'm trying to finish this up for a wedding present and now with the confusion I am running out of time, please help.... Very frustrated, tired, & confused.....Eric :'(

#### SandyT

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edbd1100 said:
Hello,
I know this isn't a routing question persay, but does any body here get the Woodsmith Magazine?
There Fourm is down and I need help...
I have a question about the plans for the fold out picture frame in April/May 2006 Vol.28/No.164 page 16.
I'm really confused and need some new eyes to give me there take on this, if you would be so kind, please!!!!!
It states (page 20 'The Doors' ) that when building the doors that the grooves and assembly is the same as used for the back frame, except for some slight dimensional differences.
So when you look at page 20 (F) appears to be 5-1/2 x 15/16 and cut like (A) on page 18 or is it 7/8 like (E)?
Are there 2 (F's) and 2 (G's), if so how is (G) cut, like (B)?
And Dim'd like (B)?
And is (F) like (A)?
That would make (E) like (C)?
I'm trying to finish this up for a wedding present and now with the confusion I am running out of time, please help.... Very frustrated, tired, & confused.....Eric :'(
This will make an excellent wedding gift. I don't know if you have already received the help you need, but I dug out my magazine and copied pages 18 and 20 to see if I could post it and maybe someone can figure it out?
Well, maybe the files were too big, but it didn't work. I"m sorry!

#### SandyT

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Hi Bj,
Thanks, and I will do that if this doesn't work. I remembered IrfanView and I have them saved to my desktop, smaller, but I don't know if they are small enough yet. We will see.
Ok, I see it didn't help.
I'm sending them to you.

#### SandyT

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Bj,
I just wanted to tell you that you are welcome to post them as soon as you rework them, unless you don't want to.

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Posted for Sandy

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Bj

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#### SandyT

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Question # 1: Is F cut 15/16" like A or 7/8" like E? Both. 7/8" is the dimension of A when you are seeing the top view as in view "a" on page 18. 15/16" is the dimension looking at A from the side view "c" on same page.
Question # 2: Are there 2 (F's) and 2 (G's), if so how is (G) cut, like (B)? Yes, 2 (F's) and 2 (G's). Cut the 2 (F's) like you did the (A's) and cut the 2 (G's) like you did the (B's). The only changes in any dimensions are the lengths. All the rails and stiles are cut the same as in the back, because the flat panels and acrylic will fit into the doors exactly as they do the back frame.
Question # 3: And Dim'd like (B)?And is (F) like (A)?That would make (E) like (C)?
Yes, G is dimensioned like (B), (F) is like (A) and (E) is like (C). Fortunately you won't have to make the divider in the middle this time.
Well, I know how it is to rush to make gifts and feel the pressure and anxiety when time is running out so I tried to figure it out myself, and can see where the confusion could come from, and then I finally saw the 7/8" dimension when looking at the top section view (a) on page 18.
Well, good luck and God speed on your frames.

#### SandyT

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Bj,
Thank you so much for your help. You're the best!

#### Mike

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Sandy, there is a program that makes sending full pages a breeze. This program is called Primo PDF, and it is a free download from http://www.primopdf.com/
Once you install the program it acts as a printer choice. Open your document, click file \ print and select primo pdf as the printer. A window will open and you choose "E-book" and your file is converted to a PDF.

#### SandyT

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Mike,
Ok, I made Promo my default printer and then everything seems to have gone well. I thought I might as well see how good I am at posting a pdf.
Thank you again. That looks like a great aid in posting pages when necessary.

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#### bobj3

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Thanks Mike

I downloaded and installed the Primo PDF just for kicks to see how it works.
The PDF files below are from that program, and you are right it's quick and easy one to use.

Thanks Mike for the tip .
Bj

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#### Mike

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For anyone who isn't aware you can save a PDF file to your computer by right clicking on the link and selecting "save target as". This opens a window to let you choose the location you want to save it to. To keep life simple I have a dedicated folder on my C drive for all my PDF files called "PDF's".

#### edbd1100

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An update

Hello everyone,
Thanks for what you have done so far, I did get an answer of sorts from Woodsmith:

Hi Eric,

I do have corrections for this project. The corrections deal with pg
18 figure a the 7/8" listed should be 11/16" and the frame stile tenon
is 1 11/16" . I am forwarding your email to the editors to better
assist you.

Best regards,
Tammy

Well that through another wrench into the project, but things still aren't right.
I just spent all morning drawing just a door up in CAD by there dim's and it doesn't work. So I took the basic overalls and ideas and drew up something that looks like it will work. I am going to make more sawdust and see if I can get a door or both made, the present will just have to be late but they are good friends and a card will do for now.
I'm attaching a .tif file that shows one of the doors there way and you can see in the corners that the yellow and orange details don't match up with the miters of the red details.
I drew them up my way and I will try to attach those tiffs as well.
I tried to be nice and sent them another email inwhich I said this:

Tammy,
I drew up one of the doors (since they are the same) on CAD and they do not come out like the picture of the finished picture frame.
Also one of the other things I noticed is that on Page 17 (lower right hand corner) it states that the rails on the doors are narrower than the back frame for clearance to open the doors, but if you look at the top of the page it states all pieces are 3/4" thick, Page 18 states the same in numerous places, and on Page 20 (the door and panel page) it also states all parts are 3/4" thick. No narrower dimension is to be found.
This whole project needs to be looked over carefully, I'm no master woodworker but I've built the doors 3 different times now and have spent all morning redesigning the doors on cad to look like the finished product picture. I've used so far (2) 8 foot x 12" x 1" pieces of cherry, that my grandfather cut down and has been drying for the past 32 years. I'm going to try it my way and use the project as a guide only, I do like your magazine alot and this is the first project I have tried to do from you, just my luck that these plans are not right, the write up could have been alot better and the whole project should have been looked over better.
I'll let you know how it goes....Eric

And they just replied with this:

Thank you for your reply. Here is a material list for this project I hope this helps you.

Materials For Fold-out Picture Frame

(A) Frame Top Rail (1) 3/4 x 15/16 - 11 1/16
(B) Frame Bottom Rail (1) 3/4 x 15/16 - 11 1/16
(C) Frame Stiles (2) 3/4 x 15/16 - 7 5/8
(D) Frame Center Stile (1) 3/4 x 1 11/16 - 6 ½
(E) Door Stiles (4) 3/4 x 7/8 - 7 ½
(F) Door Top Rails (2) 3/4 x 7/8 - 5 ½
(G) Door Bottom Rails (2) 3/4 x 7/8 - 5 ½
(H) Top (1) 3/4 x 3 - 12 7/16
(I) Base (1) 3/4 x 3 - 12 7/16
(J) Panels (4) 7/16 x 4 - 6 1/4

All parts can be cut from one 3/4" x 6" - 72" Cherry board

There are corrections to that issue as well:

There's a measurement discrepancy on page 18, Figure a. The Frame Stiles part C should be 15/16" wide to match the other frame parts.

The dimension in detail 'a' on page 18 should be 15/16" and not 7/8". Also, if you choose to make the spline jig in the box on page 19, the height of the sides should be 8" and not 13".

Best regards,
Katie

I'll try to keep you updated as to how it goes....Eric

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#### SandyT

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Eric,
I was wondering how it was going. What a nightmare, huh? And to think I was considering making this someday myself. If they ever get totally revised and corrected instructions, maybe I still will. That is such a shame about all that cherry wood, too. That is just irreplacable because of the sentimental factor. This would really be a great reason to always make a prototype like that guy on DIY Woodworking program. I always felt it was unneccessary, but not when you can't trust the instructions! At least the people you are making this for are friends and can wait until it is finally done.
Please let me know how it goes and post pictures of the finished project?

#### Mike

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Plans often have mistakes, and building a prototype from pine is an easy and inexpensive way to test the suggested method. Any project worth building is usually worth building two. I learned my lesson with the "Heritage cradle" plan.

#### SandyT

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Bj,
Can you believe, I was wrong? hahahahhahaha! I thought I had it all figured out, but noooooooooo. Figures.
Just thought it was funny.

#### edbd1100

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Thanks Again

The pine idea is a smart move, I have some around, maybe I'll give it a try.
I'll keep you posted with pic's as soon as I have something to show that isn't a pile of dust.....Eric

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