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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
THis isn't quite like the other posts I've found on Freud speed control issues - but there's a lot out there I haven't seen.

My Freud starts - but sometimes does not come up to full speed - just to a 'slow' speed that is probably less than 1,000 rpm.

Sometimes, when it does come up to speed, after routing a little while, it falls back to the 'slow' speed. I have to shut it off, and then hope it comes up to speed when its turned back on.

I have checked brushes, and they look OK, as does the commutator. I cleaned out the insides with dry air, including the speed controller and especially its dial. I did notice that when it starts and goes to the slow speed, if I lightly push the speed control dial 'up' or 'down' (as opposed to the directions it rotates in), sometimes it will jump to the selected speed on the dial.

The local Missouri repair shop is out of business, and I contacted Freud. He suggested shipping it to NC for them to repair. When I asked for a guesstimate of costs - he could not tell me until after they look at it.

I suspect a speed control issue, but since other posts on the site state that Freud doesn't make the exact part anymore (one in the router is dated March of 1996), and the replacement requires a different armature - total cost will be in excess of $200.

Long, detailed post (used to be an engineer before retiring - somethings you never get over). Looking for any suggestions.

Thanks

Milt
 

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Milt, there should be a repair shop somewhere close that can at least diagnose the problem, it doesn't have to be a designated Freud repair shop to do that. If it is a speed control, it may be possible to bypass it and you could use an external speed control instead. If it is an armature problem then just scrap it. I had a big Freud plunge from about that era and when it died I checked into a new armature and it was $10 cheaper than buying a new router. That router didn't last nearly long enough for what I paid for it and I won't buy another Freud because of that.
 

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Go to radio shack and get a can of what used to be TV tuner Cleaner (NO Lubricant) - Now called Electronics cleaner - spray into the potentiometer while rotating from side to side. IF the carbon disk is still whole this should rid you of the issue, IF the carbon disk is broken, it will come out in pieces. Either replace this part or junk the unit. You have already decided that it will cost >200.00 plus shipping to possibly get it fixed. You are an engineer - do the ROI calcs and you will see that a new router is in order. Anything that cost >2/3 of new is usually trashed. A repair cost that is greater than a new unit is a no-brainer. Happy Shopping - Baker
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Baker,
Thanks for the tip. It seems to have helped, but not solved.
The router started to speed a couple of times, and changed speeds throughout the range. I then put in a 3/8" roundover, adjusted to full height and took a small cut of a pine 2x4 at about 12,000 rpm. Went smooth - so I went for the gusto and made the next pass a full cut. The router dropped to the 'slow' speed, less than 1,000 rpm (seemed like I could almost count the cuts on the three bladed bit).

Restarted (took two tries to get up to speed), and set it around 20,000 rpm. Took a full cut with no problem. Went to a piece of red oak, full cut went OK. Tried another face full cut, and occasionally the speed went UP to max and then dropped back to the selected speed.

I'll never take a first pass full cut on wood for a project, so I'm going to limp along with this until it totally fails. When I do replace it I'll have to find a router that takes the Freud template guides I got as a gift right after picking the 2000E up at a garage sale.

I appreciate the thoughts on ROI - that's why I am not going to ship it to Freud for analysis and repairs. Odds are not with a positive cost analysis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Charles,
I have seen a few posts on other threads that indicated the Freud speed control is integral to the armature and that an external speed control won't work. However, I like the thought.

When this router fails totally, if the replacement router will support an external speed control, I will buy that first and see if I can get the Freud to work on it. If not, a few articles have indicated that the external speed control is 'better' in that it is not subject to vibration, dust, and poorer heat transfer (there is great air flow over the internal ones, but their heat sinks are typically so much smaller that components heat up more).
 

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bad bad freud

Baker,
Thanks for the tip. It seems to have helped, but not solved.
The router started to speed a couple of times, and changed speeds throughout the range. I then put in a 3/8" roundover, adjusted to full height and took a small cut of a pine 2x4 at about 12,000 rpm. Went smooth - so I went for the gusto and made the next pass a full cut. The router dropped to the 'slow' speed, less than 1,000 rpm (seemed like I could almost count the cuts on the three bladed bit).

Restarted (took two tries to get up to speed), and set it around 20,000 rpm. Took a full cut with no problem. Went to a piece of red oak, full cut went OK. Tried another face full cut, and occasionally the speed went UP to max and then dropped back to the selected speed.

I'll never take a first pass full cut on wood for a project, so I'm going to limp along with this until it totally fails. When I do replace it I'll have to find a router that takes the Freud template guides I got as a gift right after picking the 2000E up at a garage sale.

I appreciate the thoughts on ROI - that's why I am not going to ship it to Freud for analysis and repairs. Odds are not with a positive cost analysis.
Your carbon pot, attached to the speed dial is probably cracked - this is a case of a 1.00 item costing 200.00 to repair - enjoy your new router and list the other on Craig's list as a red boat anchor.

good luck - Baker
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Baker,
Thanks, I think. Since the Freud is basically dead weight and will come in handy on next year's Canada fishing week - I can't really do any harm by messin' with it.

Any idea what the resistance and wattage of the speed control might be. Although doubtful, I might be able to put a fixed resistor in place of the speed control and make this a single speed router.

Lots of problems in doing so - will there be leads to solder to? Will the heat from soldering damage the electronics if I can't get a sink in place? Is full speed the max resistance on the pot, or is the minimum? What about just shorting it out?

I doubt our friends at Freud would share any of this info - I best check with some local repair shops to see what they know.

Milt
 

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Milt, I will get on the phone with Freud today and see what I can find out.
 

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Baker,
Thanks, I think. Since the Freud is basically dead weight and will come in handy on next year's Canada fishing week - I can't really do any harm by messin' with it.

Any idea what the resistance and wattage of the speed control might be. Although doubtful, I might be able to put a fixed resistor in place of the speed control and make this a single speed router.

First off, I would assume it is NOT "cracked"! More likely the carbon coating(assuming its a carbon pot.. it mayor may not be!) is worn or the wiper is dirty or worn.

Lots of problems in doing so - will there be leads to solder to? (probably) Will the heat from soldering damage the electronics if I can't get a sink in place?(If you are using 140W Soldering gun... good chance! if you are using a 25-40W iron and have any experience wit electronic soldering, you should be ok!) Is full speed the max resistance on the pot, or is the minimum? (Can't tell with out a diagram or a unit in front of me. But if you have to ask, maybe you should not?) What about just shorting it out?(yes you can.. I would recommend full speed if you do.. but see my answer with regard to which end of the pot is which!)

I doubt our friends at Freud would share any of this info - I best check with some local repair shops to see what they know.( I doubt it as well, but never know if you don't ask!)

Milt
Just a sidebar, any router that has constant speed regulation must have some speed headroom in order to regulate. This means that bypassing the speed control, will/may cause the router to run at faster than designed speeds. That is/was the concern with bypassing the speed control on this router. It's not a matter of it can't be done, or the router won't run. It is matter of excessive speed can cause other issues, including things flying apart! Even with an external speed control the router speed may exceed design when run at or near full speed! This and legal liability issues probably answer your question about Freud's possible help!

Please proceed with this in mind and use due caution!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Exactly why I need to know range on existing pot - I would plan on picking a resistor near the top speed end, but not 'at' the top speed end.

Then, the main issue is getting an external speed control to work with it - the router came with some large panel raising bits that would not be usable unless the router can be slowed.

The more I think about this, the more likely I am to just relegate the router to the fishing boat anchor position.

As I recently mentioned to a friend - I like 'elegant' engineering solutions - ones that address the root cause, are safe, and economical. Changing out the speed control just addresses economics - and may not be safe at all.
 

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Hello!

I can see here:
http://www.freud.ca/PDFs/FT2200Manual.pdf

That this router has got a real speed regulator , using ref 105 tachometer
as feedback sensor for regulation loop.

It means that using an external speed reducer / adjuster will be a lost in speed
accuracy as nothing is as good as this feedback loop type regulation it has.

I would suggest to show it to a good electronic practician.
The faultly part is probably a potentiometer that's 2 or3 usd worth.


It usualy has 3 connections leads and it's chachacteristics are easy to measure
if router is dismounted before it is totally broken.

It consist of disoldering it , using soldering iron and vacum pump or a special
copper wire made to attract the solder.

Desoldering Bulb:
Desoldering Bulb : Desoldering Bulbs | RadioShack.com

Desoldering Braid:
Desoldering Braid : Soldering Tools & Supplies | RadioShack.com

Then measuring resisting value between leads 1-3. Using Ohmmeter
The rotation characteristic is probably linear.And one can plot the curve whith
a few minutes of measurements.


Changing it requires a 20 or 30 w soldering iron and is usually easy.

In most circuit designs the 3 leads are used ( Not always).
In the case of 3 leads used, 2 fixed resistors could replace it at a fixed speed.

Did you try the spray cleaner idea ?
Personnaly been using it as a temporary solution, but i would recommand
special spray with lubricant, not the dry ones.

This one seems approriate:
RadioShack TV Tuner Cleaner : Cleaners | RadioShack.com

Regards.
Gerard
 

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Exactly why I need to know range on existing pot - I would plan on picking a resistor near the top speed end, but not 'at' the top speed end.

Then, the main issue is getting an external speed control to work with it - the router came with some large panel raising bits that would not be usable unless the router can be slowed.

The more I think about this, the more likely I am to just relegate the router to the fishing boat anchor position.

As I recently mentioned to a friend - I like 'elegant' engineering solutions - ones that address the root cause, are safe, and economical. Changing out the speed control just addresses economics - and may not be safe at all.
Assuming the pot is the problem(by no means a sure thing) if you replace it with fixed resistor(s), the soft start function is still active... you CAN NOT use an external speed control that way! That kind of "fix" does not disable softstart!

The info Gerard gave you is correct. The trick to replacing the pot will be finding on the correct physical size and design to fit in the space and for the control knob to fit!

There are a number of possibilities as to what the actual failure might be

1. As already discussed... the control pot. I would try the contact cleaner first, and yes I would recommend one with a lubricant. Just don't drown the PCB. A little in the control it self is all that should be needed!

2. The triac(the part that is riveted to the heat sink) has failed or has poor solder connections on the foil side of the PCB. If just a connection issue, resoldering the connections should fix it. if failed, you will end up spending $10-25 with no guarantee it will work and no return usually on electronic parts!

3. A capacitor or 2 may be failing. This may show up as swelling/splitting on the top of the cap. These are quite inexpensive and relatively easy to change.

4. The control IC... the part with like 14-16 legs could be at fault. Fairly unlikely, but possible. Chance of finding the part? Slim to none.. many times manufactures remove the part number to prevent even identification, and it may well be custom to that model machine!
 

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Milt
Tool service center st Charles mo
Great repair, lots parts ask for estimate
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
John,
Lady at Tool Center said to bring it in for a free estimate on repairs - they are not familiar with Freud, but said that quite often parts from another supplier can be substituted.
 

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Mr

Baker,
Thanks, I think. Since the Freud is basically dead weight and will come in handy on next year's Canada fishing week - I can't really do any harm by messin' with it.

Any idea what the resistance and wattage of the speed control might be. Although doubtful, I might be able to put a fixed resistor in place of the speed control and make this a single speed router.

Lots of problems in doing so - will there be leads to solder to? Will the heat from soldering damage the electronics if I can't get a sink in place? Is full speed the max resistance on the pot, or is the minimum? What about just shorting it out?

I doubt our friends at Freud would share any of this info - I best check with some local repair shops to see what they know.

Milt
I've called Freud several times and the tech services have always been very helpful, the same with Jet and most other manufacturers. Before I retired I made sure all my techs gave the same degree of service to customers and competitors alike, and because it was the industrial world it had better have been good service. Give them a call, after all, all they can say is no and unless you have two boats who needs two anchors?

Best Regards - Baker
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Baker,
You're correct that manufacturers want to support users - and since much of my career was involved in troubleshooting/repairs to controls for pumps, valves, feedback control systems, etc., I have relied heavily on manufacturers.

Generally, manufacturers are concerned with the appropriate use of information to assure that implementation does not endanger people. If I represented Freud, I would not share the information needed to 'fix' my particular problem. If misapplied, (such as a 1/4 Watt resistor where a 1 W is needed, or if the leads wind up exposed and present a shock hazard) it not only could endanger an individual, but would also open up the manufacturer to litigation.

I am extremely confident in my ability to accomplish this task effectively, but I would not pass on the info to someone without equivalent skills and knowledge.

Regardless, I am not going to try this myself anyway - I will be taking it to the repair shop in St. Charles (delayed from doing so because of a death in the family, and some commitments in the next few weeks - so there will probably be a delay in posting their findings).

I agree with your thoughts. The info I got from this site on others issues with the speed control pretty well convinced me that sending the router in to Freud would be too costly a fix. I could be wrong, but a local shop willing to take an intelligent look (and presumably someone Freud would share the required technical info with) might provide a result I am willing to afford.
 

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Bosch tools often have this same problem. I have it on a jig saw too.
I bet they buy their speed controls from the same electronic supplier.

Reminds me of Jaguar and Triumph buying their electronics from Lucas (Prince of Darkness) Electronics corporation. They seemed incapable of contemplating another supplier for decades. But they are Brits so I guess it's understandable.
 

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Change that to ALL routers have problems with controller modules and I will agree.
 

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Change that to ALL routers have problems with controller modules and I will agree.
Yep, it's not the best environment for an electronic PCB!:no: And nearly no one repairs the PCB's anymore, at least commercially!
 
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