Hi Jack.

Be careful with that stuff.....

Can you buy in smaller quantities? Most people would not use very much for fuming in a lifetime?

Great finish, BTW.

 

Just a question { proberly a dumb one }
but why do you need to fume?
and why Ammonia?

 

Yeah, I could've gotten 1 gallon, but it was a weaker strength, (is that an oxymoron?), and 5 gallons was slighty less than 2 gallons of the lower grade stuff... I bouight the 5 gallon jug. Oh well, we'll see.

 

Pete, you may be asking the wrong guy, but here is my answer; the tannin in the oak reacts with the fumes in the ammonia, (that's why ammonia), it gives it a richer brown grey color. This is really just a very expensive experiment for me. I hope it works out well or else I've wasted the money for the ammonia, and the time and materials for the urns.

 

I have seen articles whereby a fuming cabinet was built out of plastic to fume a full sized dresser.

Certainly adds to the finish.

Don't over-produce to begin with, Jack.

 

That sure makes the grain stand out Jack. According to a book I got (and then found online for free) on Windsor furniture, the process was quite common at one time. In the book, it shows a tent built around a large piece, as in a wooden frame and sheet plastic.

A few years ago I hauled 100% ammonia to farmers in the spring and fall for fertilizer. It is wicked stuff if you get a face full. I actually got used to the smell after a while and missed it when I quit.

 

NH3 Ammonia-Very Dangerous



I have worked, up close and personal, with ammonia in the production of nitric acid. It is attracted to moisture....in your lungs, eyes, etc. It is EXTREMELY dangerous, especially if you are working alone.
I strongly recommend that you review a MSDS sheet on ammonia and consider getting a very good, full-face, professional respirator. Seal test the respirator by covering the filter faces with both hands and try to draw air in. If your seal is good, it will pull the facemask tighter to your face. Again....do not take this chemical lightly!

 

James, I don't think I can over produce. It takes me too long to make them, and honestly I already have orders for 4 of them and I have only contacted 1 funeral home, there has to be close to 100 funeral homes in a 60 mile radius.

 

Unfinished and Darn close to finished, just needs latch installed.

OK, my question is: What's the purpose of the latch? Yes, I know, to keep the top closed, but I don't see people wanting to view the ashes or anything. I would think it more appropriate to glue the top on, i.e., closed. Do people actually want hinges and a latch?

My personal desire is to have my ashes fired out of a muzzloading cannon, over a nice mountainside. Used to be possible, but I've not found the link to the site that advertised it in years, so I don't know if it's still legal or not.
Had an Army buddy, he always said he wanted his ashes spread over the ocean. Then anytime any of his friends took a drink of water, they could say, "Here's to you Dolbow".

Nice work by the way.

 

Hey Theo, thanks. I think the hardware, which is a lot gold plated lock and key, really sets it off. Plus the key can be kept should someone wish to bury the urn, as we did with my moms urn, my dad has the key still. It's a connection to her, despite yes, all the other obvious connections, this is the last one. But you're right, and something Iwill cconsider.

 

How long do the urns sit in the barrel fuming and does that time period very with different types of wood ?

Buck

 

Buck, this is my first real attempt, I'm going for roughly 24 hours and we'll see how that looks. I understand that the wood needs to have tannin in it, so the lower the content, or if none at all then I don't know that fuming would have much effect regardless of the amount of time. I should have put a scrap of curly maple in with it, never thought of that til now. Next time.

 

Jack I think it is worth all the trouble you are going through to fume the oak. As people can see in the last picture the big difference the fuming makes in the final product, stain just won't work like the fuming.

As far as the key is concerned there are 2 ways of dealing with the construction of the urn, the way you are building it and also another way I have seen them built.

I have seen urns of this type built with a panel dividing the urn into 2 compartments, a large lower compartment that holds the ashes that is accessed from the bottom by removing a panel held on by screws, and the smaller upper compartment that can hold pictures and small items that is accessed by the keyed lock. This could be another option for you to offer to the funeral homes.

I worked in drafting offices many years ago and used ammonia to develop blue line prints. Some of the print machines were vented to the outside so you very seldom smelled fumes but some of the small offices used a tube in a corner that set over a small container of ammonia and the exposed print paper went into the top of the tube by removing a plug and replacing it when the print was inserted. The paper was left in the tube for 30 to 45 seconds and then removed. Every time the plug was removed the smell of the ammonia filled the room then was carried away by the air conditioning system.

Just make sure that you change the filters on your respirator when needed and ventilate the area when possible.

 

You have some really beautiful there.

If you have not been using activated charcoal filters, the you may wish to try them. I have not found anything they can not handle.

 

Any pictures of fumed next to non-fumed?
Preferably cut from the same source?

 

Mike, to clarify, the last photo shows unstained and stained curly maple. Ralph, great idea, but nothing at this point. I'll try to do that, as well as fume some maple on my next go round.

 

Hi Jack , so if it just a process of aging the wood have you tried using White vineger and steelwool.[ leave steelwool in solution over night]
i used it on a couple of my renovation projects comes up trumps

 

Thank you for sharing, absolutely beautiful effect, it's great to learn new ( even if it's old ) things. Someday I'll have a reason to try this finish as it certainly makes a fantastic wood grain display. Your wood work is also great I love the feet, someday you should show everyone how you make the trim and feet on those urns.

Thanks again

 

Hi Jack, If it's just a process for aging wood maybe you could use a solution of White vineger with steel wool left in it overnight{ no longer} it brings out the grain aswell.
Maybe also you could look into pet cementary's for customers

 

24 hour update

It's been 24 hours, roughly, and I pulled my first set of urns out of my "fume box" to have a look at them, I am less than impressed. Have a look, not much difference. I put them back in again for another 24 hours, along with a scrap of maple and some fresh ammonia, not that I think I needed it.

I also want to apologize for the confusion I seem to be causing with that first set of pictures. The two urns side by side are both curly maple, one is STAINED, NOT fumed, the other of course is unstained. I probably should not have shown those two in this thread.

 

Pete, I have not tried that, perhaps I should but it won't be right away. Lets face it, it takes me too long to do just about anything unless I'm super motivated, or getting paid .

 

Jack you are correct to be careful with Ammonia, when I was an apprentice then the pollisher's were using ammonia and peroxide to bleach Tasmanian Blackwood to look like Tasmanian Oak, that all worked very well and I had not seen that happen before still that day the head polisher gave me a bottle and told me to "smell this" so I did, I have never forgotten the pain after I took a sniff, Ammonia cannot be treated with a lack of care, nice job on the chest. Neville

 

Even after only 24 hours there is a noticeable difference. The accounts I read suggested days of fuming.

 

Chuck, thanks for the heads up, now I don’t feel so bad. I was expecting a MAJOR difference after 24 hours. So maybe I'll wait it out another day for a total of 72 hours in fumes and then check again.

 

Jack I think it was you that pointed out that the ammonia reacts with the tannin in the wood. Some species have a lot less that others and will respond differently. Oak is really high in tannin which is why it is used for barrels to store wine in. The tannin is a natural preservative which is also why it is used to "tan" leather. I would be patient up to a week if you can but I wouldn't expect it to change much more after that. Keep posting pictures, there are a bunch of us interested in seeing your results. Maybe this is a lost art that is worth reviving.

 

Jack, I think this is the link to the free Windsor Furniture book download. I remember coming across a page or 2 about fuming. Based on what I read, I don't think commercial stains had been invented yet. There were some references to a "blackening compound" that was home made. My guess is that when commercial stains did become readily available the time and smell involved with fuming sent it out of favor.

Mission Furniture by H. H. Windsor - Free Ebook

 

Jack, I think this is the link to the free Windsor Furniture book download. I remember coming across a page or 2 about fuming.

Mission Furniture by H. H. Windsor - Free Ebook

Thanks for the link, I will take advantage of that and I hope many others will as well. As far as pictures, I will keep you posted, any time I open the chamber to inspect progress, I will photograph a comparison, I might even think to post an incremental progress series that builds so you don't have to scroll back thru looking for the previous shot.

 

Ok we are now at about 76-77 hours in the fuming process. I will post 2 pictures, the first shows 24 hours, the secong 77 hours, not sure how much difference there is. Also, took a scrap of curly maple, cut it in two and placed one piece of it in the chamber, its been in about 2 days, it is somewhat darker than its other half. I don't know that I care for the color in the maple. I will post contrasting pictures of the maple when I complete the oak fuming.

Now that I look at these photos side by side I really don't see any difference. The oak looked a little darker to me when I pulled it out to photograph, maybe it was just wishful thinking. Anyways I plan to leave it in now 'til Monday night, maybe Tuesday night, we'll see how my schedule goes. I will take 1 last photo of them then, along with that side by side comparison of the maple.