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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Here is a quick reference to different types of guide bushings.
Photo 1:
Top left: Old style Bosch. Installed by removing the bottom plate of the router.
Bottom left: New Quick change style Bosch. Installed by dropping into place and sliding a lever. Note the quick change adapter with a PC style bushing installed.
Bottom center: Typical Porter Cable base plate with bushing installed.
Bottom near right: PC style bushing.
Bottom far right: Rousseau mounting plate installation bushing. Note the removable top ring locked in place with an Allen screw. Guided by the template with a straight cutting bit installed; removes the main cut out for the router. Removing the top ring reveals a smaller guide used for cutting the lip that supports the plate.
Top right: Typical Craftsman router with guide bushing. Bushing is plastic and held in place with 3 screws.

Photo 2: Craftsman bushing; sits on top of the sub base plate, 3 screws.
Photo 3: The larger Oak Park/Lee Valley style on the left; PC style on the right.
Photo 4: Reducers in both styles.
Photo 5: Milescraft kit with base plate, bushings and an adapter to use PC style.
Photo 6: Trend metric or Imperial guide bushings in HD plastic, steel and the T3 adapter for PC.
Photo 7: Trend UniBase/bushing which will fit most routers.
Photo 8: Makita bushing; attaches with two screws on older models, new models have a quick release lever and require no screws. Bushings work with either style.
 

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Mike
Template guides listed will restrict the size of the cutter that can be used There is a need to purchase a 40mm Guide which will give a greater range of cutters that can be used and not only straight cutters.
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
At this time 40mm guide bushings are still not available in North America.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The only way to get the 40 MM guide bushing in North America is to order it and the matching base plate from Trend in the U.K. I have asked Trend N.A. to start carrying this product but so far no response.
 
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aniceone2hold said:
The only way to get the 40 MM guide bushing in North America is to order it and the matching base plate from Trend in the U.K. I have asked Trend N.A. to start carrying this product but so far no response.
Mike here is the reply I got from Trend

Dear Tom

Thanks for the follow up email. The 40mm guide bush is quite a slow mover in the UK which is a shame, as it is very useful.

I will mention you comment about the 40mm guide bush and it uses for the USA market to our USA office.

Thank you

Regards


Neil McMillan
Technical Director

Trend Machinery & Cutting Tools Ltd
Odhams Trading Estate, St. Albans Road, Watford, Herts, WD24 7TR England

( Direct Tel +44 (0)1923 212928
& Direct Fax +44 (0)1923 228656
* [email protected]
ü www.trendmachinery.co.uk
 

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Hi Tom

What is the big deal with a 40mm brass guide when most routers can't use it without a new base plate, I see Bob & Rick are using 1 1/2" one on some of the fixtures, what can be done with one that is 40mm (1 5/8" ) that you can't do with one that's 1 1/2" I still use the 1" one and it works for most of the fixtures I make or use.

Most bits that get that big should not be used on a plunge/hand held router anyway I think or I'm I wrong , most the ads I see, say to be used on a table router Only when the big gets
1 1/2" bigger, that's alot of steel spining under the router plate and if it gets hung up best hold on.

But I'm just asking :) :) :)
Bj :)
 

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bobj3 said:
Hi Tom

What is the big deal with a 40mm brass guide when most routers can't use it without a new base plate, I see Bob & Rick are using 1 1/2" one on some of the fixtures, what can be done with one that is 40mm (1 5/8" ) that you can't do with one that's 1 1/2" I still use the 1" one and it works for most of the fixtures I make or use.

Most bits that get that big should not be used on a plunge/hand held router anyway I think or I'm I wrong , most the ads I see, say to be used on a table router Only when the big gets
1 1/2" bigger, that's alot of steel spining under the router plate and if it gets hung up best hold on.

But I'm just asking :) :) :)
Bj :)
Thanks Bob for asking the questions:
To start all my guides are steel though I think brass is better. Most routers are unable to use 40mm without a new base plate (Except Makita and Hitachi in Australia.
I agree there is very little difference in the two guides you mentioned above and I am sure I could have used the smaller one but the 40mm guide is a regular size here in Australia.
You mention that you manage to complete all your projects or processes with the 1" (25mm) guide One of the reasons for the 40mm is there is a greater number of cutters that can be used 1" will restrict the number.
Another reason for the 40mm guide is that the cutter is usually visible when doing the process. (I would use the 40mm guide with the 2-6mm cutters not just for the larger cutters)
There is less chance of the cutter overheating say a 12mm cutter in a 16mm guide. also the 'swarf' will dissipate more readily using the 40mm.
Finally from a safety point of view: when using small cutters 1/4" they are usually short in length therefore sometimes difficult to reach the required depth because the collet (Chuck) will rub on the top of the guide wherar the 40mm guide will allow the chuck to penetrate through with safety.
Most larger cutters should not be used in a router without variable speed control
Tom
Thanks again for asking the questions
 

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Thanks Tom that helped :)

Most of the routers I have the collet (chuck) nuts are 22mm and some are 24mm, do you have routers that have collet nuts bigger than that ,if so what kind. ?

One more thing do you use 1 1/2" bits or bigger in your hand held router with a speed control, if so is it safe ?, with a steel guide or do you use the bearing on the bit ? as a guide .
I have not had the guts to try it,even at low speeds :) no pain no grain BUT this one I will let others try it I think :)

Thanks
Bj :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Outside of easier math, it strikes me the 1-1/2" (37.5 MM?) should be capable of most of the jobs using template guides that the 40 MM guide will do. Granted not all bits will fit but there is ample clearance for the collet and swarf removal. Since the 40 MM guide is not available isn't this a viable alternative for North American members?
 

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bobj3 said:
Thanks Tom that helped :)

Most of the routers I have the collet (chuck) nuts are 22mm and some are 24mm, do you have routers that have collet nuts bigger than that ,if so what kind. ?

One more thing do you use 1 1/2" bits or bigger in your hand held router with a speed control, if so is it safe ?, with a steel guide or do you use the bearing on the bit ? as a guide .
I have not had the guts to try it,even at low speeds :) no pain no grain BUT this one I will let others try it I think :)

Thanks
Bj :)
Bob
All the routers I have the collet nuts are much larger than 22mm and they will not fit through a 30mm guide which would have an internal diameter of say 27mm . Hence the reason for the 40mm. This is Makita and Hitachi 1/2" Routers which are excellent routers for use in the plunge mode. Note the latest Hitachi comes with a smaller Collet (Chuck)

The largest cutter I have used with the aid of the template Guides is 33mm (Dish Cutter) and yes it was used at variable speed (slower). Bob yes it is safe when using the template guide and using Female Templates, there is no bearing required.
I think I see your concern (or maybe I am wrong) I am not using a Male Template to produce something larger than the template I am using a Female template which will control the path of the cutter. I hope this explaination is ok Feel free to ask further and maybe I can submit a drawing to illustrate what I mean.
Tom
 

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aniceone2hold said:
Outside of easier math, it strikes me the 1-1/2" (37.5 MM?) should be capable of most of the jobs using template guides that the 40 MM guide will do. Granted not all bits will fit but there is ample clearance for the collet and swarf removal. Since the 40 MM guide is not available isn't this a viable alternative for North American members?
Mike
Yes you are correct of course all that is required is to make the necessary calculations for the various guides. I began my experimentation with the 40mm 30mm 16mm because they were the guides supplied by Makita and Hitachi. (They also produce other sizes of course which I have purchased to complete a process not available with the 'standard' Guides). I have also had manufactured 39mm 41mm 50mm 60mm 70mm 80mm 90mm 100mm The latter were modifications to a 30mm guide or I had a special holder made to take the larger Guides. I know I have opened up a 'can of worms' so to say by mentioning the larger guides. I did have a couple of projects that required the larger guides when I had my Cabinet-making Business
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Tom, in thinking over the goals of using the larger guide bushings wouldn't pattern following bits with bearings accomplish the same results? By way of example Whiteside makes bearings in 11? different OD's which fit a multitude of their bits, and that is just the 3/16" ID bearings. These are tip mounted and perfect for table use but they also manufacture larger ID bearings which can be mounted on the shank. Is there a safety consideration using bearings as opposed to guide bushings? I can't see any. Am I missing something?
 

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aniceone2hold said:
Tom, in thinking over the goals of using the larger guide bushings wouldn't pattern following bits with bearings accomplish the same results? By way of example Whiteside makes bearings in 11? different OD's which fit a multitude of their bits, and that is just the 3/16" ID bearings. These are tip mounted and perfect for table use but they also manufacture larger ID bearings which can be mounted on the shank. Is there a safety consideration using bearings as opposed to guide bushings? I can't see any. Am I missing something?
Mike
The cutters I use with the template guides do not have bearings added and they are not all straight cutters. I would say that there was safety involved in the use of the template guides as I've said before consider a blind person using the method
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok, the guide bushings will allow you to set the router in place before plunging the bit. I can see the safety difference between this and using a bearing guided bit. With a bearing you do not have proper alignment until the bit is fully plunged into the work. There is also the depth of cut to consider, it is not variable using a bearing. The bit would need to be fully extended for the bearing to contact the template. This makes sense to me. Thanks for helping me sort this out.
 

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aniceone2hold said:
Ok, the guide bushings will allow you to set the router in place before plunging the bit. I can see the safety difference between this and using a bearing guided bit. With a bearing you do not have proper alignment until the bit is fully plunged into the work. There is also the depth of cut to consider, it is not variable using a bearing. The bit would need to be fully extended for the bearing to contact the template. This makes sense to me. Thanks for helping me sort this out.
Mike
As a matter of interest I do not usually work with top bearing cutters In fact no bearings at all. I have two top bearing cutters 10mm and 19mm and for the reasons you have stated I do not even talk about them when I give demonstrations at woodshows.
I have enclosed samples of the cutters I use with the guides
Tom
 

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Mike said:
Outside of easier math, it strikes me the 1-1/2" (37.5 MM?) should be capable of most of the jobs using template guides that the 40 MM guide will do. Granted not all bits will fit but there is ample clearance for the collet and swarf removal. Since the 40 MM guide is not available isn't this a viable alternative for North American members?
Quick lesson in metric conversion.
1½" = 38.1mm not 37.5 ;)

¼" = 6.35mm
1" = 25.4mm
½" = 12.7mm
¾" = 19.05mm
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Dewy, I dont normally work with metric sizes and took a guess which was close enough to make my point. The bushing IS large enough for Tom's method.
 

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I for one have always been confused by the metric system, (always will be), but, I'm like Mike, I don't work with it very much.

Tom, could you by chance post a pic of the 40mm? I have a Makita3612C, purchased through amazon, and I don't have any guides except that from Oak Park.
Also, I think you answered this one other time not sure, do you use any type of bit extension(s) with your guides?
 
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