Help with floating tenon joint.

2744 Views 19 Replies 9 Participants Last post by hawkeye10, Nov 16, 2017

hawkeye10

Discussion Starter · Nov 12, 2017

I am making a picnic basket out of Ash and I have several joints to make and a loose tendon joint is the only was I can figure to do it. The loose tendon is 1/4" T X 3/4" wide and 3/4" deep. The Ash is 1/2" T X 1 1/4" wide and the mortise needs to go in the end. I have been putting the mortise in the edges using a 1/4" spiral bit in my router table. Putting a mortise in the end seems a little scary to me. I sure could use some help.

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Gene Howe

· #2 · Nov 12, 2017 (Edited)

Use a 1/8" spiral and, hard board for the tenon.
You didn't specify the length of the piece that gets the end mortise. You'll ned a carrier board to hold the piece and ride the fence, with a 90 degree stop. I'd use toggle clamps attached to the stop.
The other alternative is to rout or saw a tenon on the end and forget the loose tenon.

Stick486

· #3 · Nov 12, 2017

hand drill using a brad point bit to hog it out..
clean to size w/ a chisel..

Reactions: 5

woodknots

· #4 · Nov 12, 2017

How about using a fluted wood dowel pin?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/General-Tools-1-13-in-x-1-4-in-Fluted-Dowel-Pins-840014/202252099

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hawkeye10

Discussion Starter · #5 · Nov 12, 2017

Gene Howe said:
Use a 1/8" spiral and, hard board for the tenon.
You didn't specify the length of the piece that gets the end mortise. You'll ned a carrier board to hold the piece and ride the fence, with a 90 degree stop. I'd use toggle clamps attached to the stop.
The other alternative is to rout or saw a tenon on the end and forget the loose tenon.

Gene I have a doweling jig but the spacing is to wide. The length is 19", 10 3/4", and 11 and something. I forget right now. I have a 1/8" spiral bit but no hard board. Of coarse I could get some hard board, no problem.

woodknots

· #6 · Nov 12, 2017

Don

No need for a doweling jig if you use dowel centers - you can space your dowels any way you want - I've got a set and although I don't use dowel that often, when I do, these come in handy. I have a similar set to these - they're not that expensive. Just drill a hole in one piece, place your dowel centre in, butt the two pieces in and give a slight push. The pin on the end will tell you where to drill the matching hole.

Set of Dowel Centers - Package of 8 | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware

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Cherryville Chuck

· #7 · Nov 13, 2017

It's only a picnic basket so I think I would go with Vince's method. The dowel centers and dowels keep it simple which is all you should need for a project that size. I made a plunge router jig for mortising the end of some cross members for a screen door not too long ago but the time it would take to do it just isn't warranted in this situation.

hawkeye10

Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 13, 2017

Cherryville Chuck said:
It's only a picnic basket so I think I would go with Vince's method. The dowel centers and dowels keep it simple which is all you should need for a project that size. I made a plunge router jig for mortising the end of some cross members for a screen door not too long ago but the time it would take to do it just isn't warranted in this situation.

Chuck I think I am going to make a jig. I found one that will not be hard to make and I will be able to use it again and again. I really don't think it will take that long to make.

Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=185&v=KyKgJKKUvH8

CharleyL

· #9 · Nov 13, 2017 (Edited)

Don,

Use your scroll saw to cut a template for your router and guide bushing. Attach two pieces of scrap wood to the bottom of this template so you can quickly locate the template in the right position on the end of your work. Drive a flat head screw through the template into the work, somewhere in the area of your work that won't be routed to hold the template in place, and then rout your mortise. It helps to plunge many holes and then go back and clean out the mortise to reduce the loading on the router bit. The mortise will be much more accurate if you make them this way.

By the way, a tendon is a part of your body. A tenon is the piece of your project that fits into the mortise that you make.

Did you see the photos that I posted in your thread "Port-A-Mate review"? Please look if you haven't already.

Charley

hawkeye10

Discussion Starter · #10 · Nov 13, 2017

CharleyL said:
Don,

Use your scroll saw to cut a template for your router and guide bushing. Attach two pieces of scrap wood to the bottom of this template so you can quickly locate the template in the right position on the end of your work. Drive a flat head screw through the template into the work, somewhere in the area of your work that won't be routed to hold the template in place, and then rout your mortise. It helps to plunge many holes and then go back and clean out the mortise to reduce the loading on the router bit. The mortise will be much more accurate if you make them this way.

By the way, a tendon is a part of your body. A tenon is the piece of your project that fits into the mortise that you make.

Did you see the photos that I posted in your thread "Port-A-Mate review"? Please look if you haven't already.

Charley

:laugh2: :laugh2: Charley I am not good at spelling, woodworking and many other things. If I wasn't born so darn good looking I don't know what would have happened. :wink:

Reactions: 3

Stick486

· #11 · Nov 13, 2017

and we're not fixing a loose tenon but trying to make a floating tenon..

hawkeye10

Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 13, 2017

I thought this was a wood working forum not an English class. :laugh2: :wink:

Pay back is going to be hell.

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Cherryville Chuck

· #13 · Nov 13, 2017

I edited the title so I guess I'm in your sights too.

denniswoody

· #14 · Nov 14, 2017

As I understand it your tenon is 3/4 inch in length. Only half of that will be in each piece and that is not enough for strength. Double that would be necessary at minimum. If you have a plunge router and a guide it is quite easy to do the mortises free hand. As pointed out earlier you first need a stable, wide base so sandwich your piece between two wider boards to make a good stable platform. Mark your mortises with a pencil making the width the same as a router bit you have. In your case it is 1/4 inch. Set up your guide so the bit is centered in the mortise. Take repeated shallow passes just touching the end marks. One final full-depth cut and you are done. Remember to mark the same reference face for all cuts as the cut will not be precisely centered no matter how careful you are. If you make a cut a little long it doesn't really matter very much as the glue is more than strong enough to hold. In fact one of the advantages of floating tenons is a loose tenon fit lengthwise gives you wiggle room in aligning pieces that must be flush at the horizontal/vertical end.

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chuckgray

· #15 · Nov 14, 2017

I love the humor. That alone makes it worth reading these posts.:laugh2:

CharleyL

· #16 · Nov 15, 2017

And I thought Don and I were close enough friends that I could correct his spelling without him getting mad at me.

Sorry Don. Spell it any way you want to. If I can figure out what you mean I'll not try to correct your spelling any more.

Charley

Reactions: 2

hawkeye10

Discussion Starter · #17 · Nov 15, 2017

2

CharleyL said:
And I thought Don and I were close enough friends that I could correct his spelling without him getting mad at me.

Sorry Don. Spell it any way you want to. If I can figure out what you mean I'll not try to correct your spelling any more.

Charley

Hey Charley we are friends and you and others that bug me about what ever doesn't bother at all. It's true that I have a problem with spelling. I don't see how I ever got of grade school.

I do have an update on making my mortises. Look at the pictures. They ain't pretty but it worked and was safe.

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Gene Howe

· #18 · Nov 15, 2017

Excellent solution.

harrysin

· #19 · Nov 15, 2017

I don't know if this simple mortise jig will be of any help.

hawkeye10

Discussion Starter · #20 · Nov 16, 2017

harrysin said:
I don't know if this simple mortise jig will be of any help.

Thanks Harry. That shows there is more than one way to do things.

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