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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all. I don't have many posts because I suffer from "Squirrel, squirrel!" complex and cycle in and out of way too many things. So I have now, uh, 3 routers, a Porter Cable I keep mounted on a table saw wing, a Bosh with a plunge base I use for hand held, and a newly purchased Makita trim router. This got longer than I'd intended, but I figured it would help to provide background.

What I'm working on is mounting a Japanese pole weapon blade in a shaft. I've done a fair amount of research on English language boards, my never that great 40 years in disuse Japanese not being up to the task of Japanese language research. Too keep the pieces straight, I've called the long one the pole, and a short piece the dowel. Even Sr. practitioners of the art admit there isn't much written. Techniques were passed master to apprentice. If you want to see a method that doesn't work, Forged in Fire, Season 3, episode 14, The Naginata. The armorer tried end drilling the pole and it left way too much slack around the tang. Catastrophic failure. As good as Mr. Doug Marcaida may be, he didn't use a naginata strike technique from any school I'm familiar with.

I've figured out that the most common method is to rip the pole off center the thickness of the tang to a, pick your length, longer than the blade tang. A dowel is ripped full length the same and the larger piece is used to account for the kerf. Then the tang is inset into the pole and and the dowel worked down to match the pole with the tang inset into it. Traditional arms would then have one of several methods used to secure the two pieces together. From bronze bands to wet rattan that shrinks in place. I'm working with 1-11/16" hickory and ash poles to be sanded down later to a teardrop profile.

I've done my first rehearsal with the hickory by making a sacrificial sled, sadly I didn't note where I found the technique, to hold the dowel/pole to rip on the table saw and cross cut out the piece with a hand saw. Cut too deep, but I know there are many practice pieces still to come. I then hand chiseled, after considerable time spend sharpening and polishing my chisels, and then more, the inset for the tang. Doing hickory by hand is interesting . . .

OK, so with that background, "if" you were to think of a power tool method to try to speed up waste removal, thoughts? I've thought of using a Forster bit to take out most of the waste or putting the dowel in a planing type jig with a template to remove most of the waste. Ideas?

Thanks anyone and everyone for ideas and input. It all gets passed forward in my basic bicycle maintenance classes I teach as a volunteer. Over 100 students to date. Or to anyone else with interest in making an ebu.

Ron
 

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do the bore w/ a tapered drill bit 1st...
then cut the flat w/ a TS and dado blade...
 
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A V point bit in a jig that is angled downward towards the tip of the pole. As you rout it gets progressively deeper and wider. Same idea as CMT's router carver bit https://www.amazon.ca/CMT-RCS-BIT-R...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0184XTGIQ and the templates for it CMT 3D Router Carver Templates The openings in the templates get wider and smaller and the line depth and width changes accordingly. Of course the CMT carver bit would also do the job without angling the jig. You'd just need to widen the gap in the template.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Stick, as you noted the possibility
the angle to the dangle and length is oddball...
is a very true statement.

The best one can hope for is quicker waste removal. The blades are all hand forged, often the tang is almost the length of the blade, with a taper in thickness (~ 9/32" to ~ 1/8") and width (1/4" over 11), and where one side generally isn't a mirror of the other, and has a curve. One side of the blade I'm working with is generally flat on one side, with a ~ 5/8" flat on the back side of the blade and a ~ 3/8" taper to the cutting edge side of the tang. That narrows down to ~ 3/8" X 3/8" at the end.

So many good suggestions. The old engineering challenge |Good|Quick|Cheap| pick any two . . . I have a 10ER ShopSmith and quite a few "extra" pieces I purchased with several ideas in the back of my head but later set aside. However I could use it as a horizontal drill as I could brace the pole. "But" bit drift over 11" for this blade, and possibly over 20" for the next is a concern. Thoughts?

I've thought of making a template for each tang out of hardboard. But couldn't puzzle out what to do for a follower. Check knew right off with the CMT bit. I'm thinking I can easily make a follower for a 1/4" chamfer or 1/2" radius bit. I could recess the face next to the bit to get the follower right down on the top of the cutting edge.

Stick gave me another thought. Maybe it's time to finish putting the mill back together and put the pole on vee blocks. . . . probably the most accurate and possibly safest. I do wonder about tear out . . . Stick, thanks much for the link, looks like a good company to do business with.
 

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dimension your drawing if you would please...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Stick, I will, "but" each hand forged blade is different. I've not put any time into learning Sketchup, always too many more pressing desires. There are other vector programs I can put something together in, but I can't promise quick and good . . .

Ron
 

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sloped V block for the long slope...
chamfer bit for the kants...
but are kants actually full chamfers???



 

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the process for chamfering or kanting usint the table and the bit needed to get the angle you want...



 

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Ron, I'm not sure but it could be that the slot is originally straight, then the tapered tang tightens the bond as it's inserted. Kinda wedged in, like old garden tools. The end of the handle would be tapped on the floor to get the tang inserted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
... chamfer bit for the kants... but are kants actually full chamfers???
No, and I probably used the incorrect term. It's the slope toward the cutting edge but not to a sharp edge. The crosswise profile goes from ~ 1/4" thick down to ~ 3/32" thick as the tang tapers, and the profile narrows from ~ 1" to ~3/4" with the non-cutting edge staying relatively flat as the cutting edge side stays, at least on this one, the cutting edge side is ~3/8" wide as it "slopes" down retaining the ~ 3/32" edge all the way down the tang.

I think your suggestion of staying with the vee block is probably the one to go with. A semi-sacrificial vee block sled is what I started with, and the too deep cross cut rather then using the dado set. Using the dado set prevents that. So that's the first cut to rip the diameter. What height from the table would you be comfortable with? I used a 2 X 4" vee cut to place the dowel ~ 3/16" above the table and the blade height was the minimum necessary to get the rip, maybe 2".

For removing the waste, the addition of a slope to a template takes care of depth control. What are thoughts on using a 1/8" up cut busing set up like a Mastercraft or Whiteside? Or better to stick with the vee point as Chuck suggested?

That would get me close and I can hand chisel the uneven final fit.
 

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you lost me...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sorry. Bottom line.
First rip cut on table say with the pole on a Vee block with a dado set.

Remove waste with a template and sloped ramp. Use a bushing against the template. Consider a 3D setup, but time to task/cost may be prohibitive. Chuck suggests a Vee bit.

My question was on using a vee bit vs. a bit with a 1/8" up cut cutter like is used for cutting inlays.

Ron
 

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Is the tang a tapered rectangle, i e pyramidal shaped? If it is then I would use a straight bit, slope the jig to still get depth control and just widen the slot the guide bushing follows to get the slot wider at the tip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Yes Chuck, exactly. Thanks for providing the description I couldn't come up with! And the advice on the bit. I ordered one in case that was the answer figuring I could use it for something else it it wasn't the best option.

I think I'll scroll saw saw out the template to the same size as the tang and by using the bushing that will give me the material for final fitting. Maybe as my skills improve I can modify the template to allow cutting to the line. Now I have a much better idea of where I'm headed for a jig.

My plan is to make a 3 sided sled wider than the pole with a vee in the bottom. I'm leaning toward a ~ 12" block with a long cove turned to face the pole and held in place with a pair of wedges. That will keep the top clear for mounting the template. Because the template needs to be clear as a base for the router, maybe I can use nut plates and counter sunk screws to hold the template in place. The slope isn't much, so I think I can simply use spacers to lift one end.

As an FYI in case anyone ever stumbles across this, the brake pads used on Shimano Vee brakes/linear pull brakes pivot on a set of 6.2mm bore concave/convex washers so both are always in full contact with the pad/brake arm. They make great spacer sets and are simply pitched when new pads are installed. So ask at your local bike shop or bike coop if you have a need.
 

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Ron if you are going to use a bit as small as the 1/8" spiral then you need to be aware of the general rule that you only take bites of about 1/2 of the bit's diameter per pass so in this case about 1/16" deep at a time. That's pretty slow going so you may want to just do the outline and then switch to a larger bit and template guide to hog out the waste in the middle of the cut.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ron if you are going to use a bit as small as the 1/8" spiral then you need to be aware of the general rule that you only take bites of about 1/2 of the bit's diameter per pass so in this case about 1/16" deep at a time.
I knew to take small bites, but hadn't heard that nice rule before. Thanks for the advice on how to go about it. Changing the bit is probably far less frustrating and, more importantly, less dangerous to the bit, than trying to hog it all out with the small bit. :smile:
 
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