I need some opinions/thoughts

1185 Views 13 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Herb Stoops, May 9, 2018

smitty10101

Discussion Starter · May 7, 2018

I built a pool side box of Cyprus for daughter #2
It is currently about 800 miles from me at the moment so the following is my recollection. 39"w x 35"d x 36" h.
3/4" slat sides that are mortised into the four legs. 3/4 " thick slats x 6" tall. Full thickness mortise x 1/2 to 1" deep legs are approx 2" square.
top & bottom rails are pocket screwed into legs. Has 5 hinges from Rockler that are "anti-slam " type
Lid-Stay Torsion Hinge Lid Supports, Rustic Bronze Finish
50# per hinge b/c the leverage of the top is so great & the focal point is so far back the top becomes front heavy

The PROBLEM:
when you raise/lower the lid the top back rail twists. Torques.

Possible solutions:
(a) mortise the back upper rail into the legs
(b) somehow connive/obtain a different setup that will slowly allow the top to close.

Questions:
Can I mortise the upper rail into the rear legs w/o breaking the cheeks of the mortise. How thick should the tenon be & how deep into the 2" square leg can I make it? to avoid twisting.
Must I make the legs 3x3, 4x4

Any & all recommendations appreciated

thks

smitty

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Herb Stoops

· #2 · May 7, 2018 (Edited)

A picture would sure help, you did a good job describing it, tho. Those hinges are not cheap. Can you add some vertical pieces either inside or outside to tie the slats on the back of the bin together at the hinges? Maybe too heavy of hinges? when you are lifting or closing do you put extra pressure on the hinges,working against the hinge restraint causing the hinge to exert a twisting force to the top rail? Will the lid close by itself if it is left alone to do so, if not you have too strong hinges. A size lighter hinge might help.

Herb

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gmercer_48083

· #3 · May 8, 2018

Smitty, Sounds like there is so much torque exerted to the (3/4") top rail that it is bowing the top rail outward (at the center) when closing...and bowing the top rail inward (at the center) when opening. If that is the case, can it be beefed up by adding more structure to the inside or outside to keep it from bowing?

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woodknots

· #4 · May 8, 2018

Smitty - I'm not sure how your slats are attached to the top and bottom rails, but I'll guess that since your slats are mortised into the legs, they are not attached to the rails??? Correct me if I'm wrong, but a picture would sure help.

Anyway, not sure why you would have used 5 hinges - I'm wondering if the hinges are fighting against each other. In this thread of my blanket chest/toy box I used different hinges that stay open (to prevent the lid slamming on little fingers). I only used two, one at each end, with a piano hinge attaching the lid to the back of the box. I realize that I have raised panels for the sides/front but that shouldn't matter to what you did. Here's a link for the hinges from Lee Valley but I got mine at Home Depot for less money.

My blanket chest thread: http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/67706-blanket-chest-toy-box.html#post654794

Lee Valley Hinges: Lid Supports - Lee Valley Tools

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JOAT

· #5 · May 8, 2018

I have problems getting 2 hinges right, and you used 5? Really? Even a military footlocker only has 2. I would have done it different. Two regular hinges, and a chain to prevent the lid from going too far back. Either that or just a lift off lid. I like to keep things simple, at times, especially things like boxes and chests.

As for toy boxes, I do not like lids on them at all. This eliminates the possibility of a lid slamming on fingers or a head. It prevents a kid climbing in, then having another kid shut the lid and sit on it. Plus a small kid often has trouble enough just putting toys in a toy box, let alone messing with a lid. Once a kid gets older it is simple enough to add a lid, so it can be used as a seat, either lift-off or hinged.

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Stick486

· #6 · May 8, 2018

are the slat mortises free, glued or mechanically fastened??
WTB your pocket screwed joints have loosened...
the hinges are not in sync for operating load/tension...
the lid was closed by pushing down on a corner and the the lid acted as a torquing lever against it's self...

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Herb Stoops

· #7 · May 8, 2018

I had a trunk lid slam on my fingers once while I was working on it, Dang ...that hurt.
Herb

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woodknots

· #8 · May 8, 2018

Theo - agree that lids slamming on little fingers hurt a lot. The hinges I used on the toy box are designed to stay open at any angle and will not close without manual intervention. Now if a kid climbs in and another kid sits on the box, well, that's not an issue with the box, that's a case of bad parenting.

Stick -agreed. In my post I mentioned that I thought the hinges were fighting each other. Could be that one of those hinges isn't installed square, but again, I think the middle hinge, or possible the three middle hinges are exerting pressure against the rail when opening and closing. If one of the hinges isn't square, there's no way the lid can open squarely without bowing or racking.

Herb, at least you didn't climb in and have someone sit on the lid.

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DaninVan

· #9 · May 8, 2018

"Herb, at least you didn't climb in and have someone sit on the lid."
-Vince

The days not over.

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jj777746

· #10 · May 9, 2018

Remove all except the 2 outer hinges.Open & close lid then replace one hinge at a time,open & close test to see if the problem is caused by a hinge in the first place(initially)