Router Forums banner
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is a question about using a jointer. I've had my Ridgid 6" jointer for about 5 years. Early on I only used it for edge jointing since I bought s4s lumber and never had a problem. In the last couple of years I've been purchasing rough cut lumber from lumber yards. My problem is face jointing. I've checked the machine set up many times. The infeed and outfeed tables are coplanar, the blades are still fairly sharp and top dead center is still at the height of the outfeed table. This morning's work demonstrates my problem. I was trying to face plane a piece of 4/4 18" long Bloodwood. It was very rough but pretty flat with no appreciable cup or twist, so I took several passes on the jointer. It was set to take off 1/32". I used the push block that came with the jointer on the front of the board and a Gripper with a drop down hook on the back of the board. After the 3rd pass i'd only planned about 3/4 of the board and the front of the board was thinner than the back, giving the edge a triangular profile. (See attached photos) Since the machine seems to be set up right, but the end result is wrong, that tells me that I'm broken. My guess is that I'm not applying the proper pressure at the right places as I feed the board across the cutter head. That, or, there is a problem with the machine but I don't know what it is. This is driving me nuts, not to mention the cost of the wood that I've ruined trying to work it out on my own. Has anyone else had this problem and learned how to correct it? As always, any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,603 Posts
Barry I have a lot of the same problems your having. The way I understand it while face or edge jointing you need to press more on the rear part of the board then when it gets about half way across the cutter head press more on the front of the board and very little if any on the rear. I do this but still have problems. One thing that would help us both is to get helical cutter heads for our jointer and thickness planer. The problem is cost ( they ain't cheap ). I have heard that the best things in life are free but that doesn't apply to wood working.

PS- This is the reason I buy straight run lumber that is 13/16" thick. I was trying to edge joint a piece of hard maple yesterday that was 20" long. It had a slight bow on the edge with the two ends being high. I could never get it dead flat so I took it to the table saw and ripped the other side turned it around and ripped the bow out and then squared up both ends. There is some really good wood workers here so maybe they will help us out.
 

·
Retired Moderator
Joined
·
16,385 Posts
I try to keep pressure right at the knives or more precisely about two inches back so that my fingers aren't directly over the knives. If I'm having that problem I haven't noticed it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
David, i checked the tables by raising the infeed table to the height of the outfeed and used a couple of my longest straightedges to make sure they were flat from end to end and from front to back. The knife blade just barely touched the straightedge. Then, I took my Wixly angle gage, set it on the outfeed table and zeroed it. I moved it along the entire length of both infeed and outfeed tables and it remained at zero. Then, I lowered the infeed table about 1/2", which is more than I've ever lowered it, and the angle gage remained at zero which showed that moving the infeed table didn't cant it in any direction. Again, if there's more that I can do please let me know.

From what i've read, i might be putting too much pressure on the outfeed too early and letting up on the infeed too early. Tomorrow, if it's not too hot in the garage, I'm in Florida now, I'll experiment with some scrap lumber. I really can't afford to keep wasting hardwood.

And, Don, if I had the money to put helical heads on my jointer and planner, I'd use it to air condition my garage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,892 Posts
I found that the jointer was the least used piece of equipment in my shop. I sold it and never looked back. My planer works fine for surfacing the boards. If the board is so wide that the planer pushes it down in the center then I simply rip the board narrower. The secret is not buying lumber that is badly warped. As for the edges I run them through the planer or use the table saw or as a last resort a hand plane. I suppose I could use the router but for me that doesn't make sense unless I was doing a whole lot of edges. It takes longer to set the router up then it does to plane the edge by hand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
Few tips from finewoodworking for fixing a taper.

"First, try transferring pressure to the outfeed side of the workpiece as soon as possible. Keeping pressure on the infeed side will cause tapering.

If that doesn’t work, check that your outfeed table is set slightly below the highest point of the knives’ arc. Align the cutterhead so that one blade is at its high point and lay a straightedge across the knife and table. There should be a gap no greater than the thickness of a sheet of photocopier paper between the straightedge and outfeed table just after the cutterhead.

If aligning the outfeed table doesn’t get rid of the taper, check that the infeed and outfeed tables are coplanar. Raise the infeed table to full height, move the cutterhead so that no knife is above the tabletop, and lay a 4-ft. straightedge along the infeed and outfeed tables. If the tables aren’t in the same plane, you’ll have to shim the ways to fix the problem."

The second tip fixed my General jointer with blades.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,645 Posts
Barry,
Forgive me for asking this, but I don't understand from your photo what the problem is, I am not saying of course that you don't have one, it's just that I don't do well understanding pictures as well as most people do. Can explain it to me.

I do use my jointer and thickness planer with almost every piece of wood that I use in a project. I have never had the a problem with my 6" Grizzly jointer after getting it adusted so that I get no snipe. Getting the outfeed table adjusted so that I got no snipe took some putzzing with, but now I just run material over the jointer paying little attention to how I do it other than keeping the material hard down as it passes over the cutters and it does a perfect job every time. I do take several shallow cuts until the material is cleaned up and then to to the thickness planer and again take very shallow cuts with it also. The jointer does have helical cutting heads and tht might be why I have had such good luck with it.

I of course don't know what to tell you, but I maight have an idea if you can find time to give me a "verbal description of what is going on. I am sure that I am wrong about this or somebody would have mentioned it by now, but it looks like some sort of a snipe issue, but of course that can't be it. It is does however just about have to be omething in your set up. What planer do you have by the way?

Changing subjects now, I do recognize that many wood workers find no need for a jointer, and others, lsuch as myself do like them. I just understand how material can be milled without one so that it is square and all sides are parallel with each other, but that's probable due to my lack of experience and/or knowledge about such things so just cut me some slack on that point if you don't agree with me. I seem to do a lot of things that a lot of folks don't agree with.

I am looking forward to Barry getting his problem solved and know what he did to get the planer working to his satisfaction. I know that he is a perfectionist and very knowledgable about woodworking. I also hope that he can get settled into his new home and have more time to work in his new shop.

Jerry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,370 Posts
What about the grain direction? Is it possible you're running into the uphill side of the grain and tearing chunks out? Not sure I explained that well so I'm open to all considerations on the point.
 

·
Official Greeter
Joined
·
19,753 Posts
IMO, too much pressure on the infeed side of the table.

I have seen the guys from The Router Workshop use that method to put a square taper on a table leg...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
750 Posts
The only thing I can think of is the outfeed table is too high. You are eating the front of the board off and then with pressure on the front the rear part of the board raises up so you are missing planning the back half. But I have know idea. It is why I bought a gauge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,603 Posts
David, i checked the tables by raising the infeed table to the height of the outfeed and used a couple of my longest straightedges to make sure they were flat from end to end and from front to back. The knife blade just barely touched the straightedge. Then, I took my Wixly angle gage, set it on the outfeed table and zeroed it. I moved it along the entire length of both infeed and outfeed tables and it remained at zero. Then, I lowered the infeed table about 1/2", which is more than I've ever lowered it, and the angle gage remained at zero which showed that moving the infeed table didn't cant it in any direction. Again, if there's more that I can do please let me know.

From what i've read, i might be putting too much pressure on the outfeed too early and letting up on the infeed too early. Tomorrow, if it's not too hot in the garage, I'm in Florida now, I'll experiment with some scrap lumber. I really can't afford to keep wasting hardwood.

And, Don, if I had the money to put helical heads on my jointer and planner, I'd use it to air condition my garage.
I am with you on that Barry. Putting in an AC was the first thing I did. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
750 Posts
I was looking at my jointer and thinking maybe check the knives with a gauge. They could be too low which would make the table seem to be too high. I think the knives should be the same height as the outfeed table at the highest point of the knives all across.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,645 Posts
I was looking at my jointer and thinking maybe check the knives with a gauge. They could be too low which would make the table seem to be too high. I think the knives should be the same height as the outfeed table at the highest point of the knives all across.

What you are aluding to Lee is what I found to be the biggest issue in setting up my jointer. It took some messing with to get the outfeed table spot on level with the hightest point of the knives. Once that was accomplished the jointer works beautifully and it does not seem to make any difference where I apply the downward pressure to the workpiece. I do of course do my best to keep that pressure down hard above the knives.

Jerry
 

·
Retired Moderator
Joined
·
16,385 Posts
I was looking at my jointer and thinking maybe check the knives with a gauge. They could be too low which would make the table seem to be too high. I think the knives should be the same height as the outfeed table at the highest point of the knives all across.
All the gauge does is set the exposure of the blades relative to the head and hopefully keep them level. There is no fixed relationship between that and the out feed height. The out feed must be set independently of the blades to the head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
750 Posts
The problem I had setting the knives was getting the same height across the full 6 inches. My knives might match one spot or 2 but they were never even across the top of each knife. Each knife would be several thousandths out. Once I switched to the gauge it was then easy to make each knife the same height across the head matching the out feed table.

So I guess it is all working now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quick update. I pulled a muscle in my back putting some shelving in a new closet so I haven't been in the shop in a few days. This morning I decided to check the jointer setup once again. It turned out right but I had a "Duh!" moment that, somewhat embarrassing, I want to share. I knew the infeed and outfeed tables were coplanar. I checked it multiple times with every straightedge that I have in the shop. The last thing was the blade height. I had eyeballed it by laying a an engineers square on the outfeed table and turning the blades. They just touched it but that was eyeball. Then I began to wonder if there was some way I could use my Digiline gage to check it. I bought it for my table saw and that's all l used it for. I looked at the directions that came with it and it was all about table saws. As I turned the box around, there was a picture of how to set it up to check jointer blades. After my headache passed from slapping my forehead with the palm of my hand I decided to try it. Although the tip of the gage is round, a flat one would work better, I was able to check each knife at both ends and in the center. They were all within .002 so I figure that's close enough. Hopefully, in the next day or two my back will permit me to cut up some lumber and run it through the jointer taking note of how i'm putting pressure on the piece as it moves across the cutter head.

I guess my take away from this is to "think outside the box" since that's where the picture was :)
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top