I'm clearly doing something wrong

3629 Views 39 Replies 12 Participants Last post by DaninVan, Oct 25, 2017

Barry747

Discussion Starter · Oct 10, 2017 (Edited)

2

This is a question about using a jointer. I've had my Ridgid 6" jointer for about 5 years. Early on I only used it for edge jointing since I bought s4s lumber and never had a problem. In the last couple of years I've been purchasing rough cut lumber from lumber yards. My problem is face jointing. I've checked the machine set up many times. The infeed and outfeed tables are coplanar, the blades are still fairly sharp and top dead center is still at the height of the outfeed table. This morning's work demonstrates my problem. I was trying to face plane a piece of 4/4 18" long Bloodwood. It was very rough but pretty flat with no appreciable cup or twist, so I took several passes on the jointer. It was set to take off 1/32". I used the push block that came with the jointer on the front of the board and a Gripper with a drop down hook on the back of the board. After the 3rd pass i'd only planned about 3/4 of the board and the front of the board was thinner than the back, giving the edge a triangular profile. (See attached photos) Since the machine seems to be set up right, but the end result is wrong, that tells me that I'm broken. My guess is that I'm not applying the proper pressure at the right places as I feed the board across the cutter head. That, or, there is a problem with the machine but I don't know what it is. This is driving me nuts, not to mention the cost of the wood that I've ruined trying to work it out on my own. Has anyone else had this problem and learned how to correct it? As always, any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

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Jerry Bowen

· #21 · Oct 17, 2017

Barry747 said:
Quick update. I pulled a muscle in my back putting some shelving in a new closet so I haven't been in the shop in a few days. This morning I decided to check the jointer setup once again. It turned out right but I had a "Duh!" moment that, somewhat embarrassing, I want to share. I knew the infeed and outfeed tables were coplanar. I checked it multiple times with every straightedge that I have in the shop. The last thing was the blade height. I had eyeballed it by laying a an engineers square on the outfeed table and turning the blades. They just touched it but that was eyeball. Then I began to wonder if there was some way I could use my Digiline gage to check it. I bought it for my table saw and that's all l used it for. I looked at the directions that came with it and it was all about table saws. As I turned the box around, there was a picture of how to set it up to check jointer blades. After my headache passed from slapping my forehead with the palm of my hand I decided to try it. Although the tip of the gage is round, a flat one would work better, I was able to check each knife at both ends and in the center. They were all within .002 so I figure that's close enough. Hopefully, in the next day or two my back will permit me to cut up some lumber and run it through the jointer taking note of how i'm putting pressure on the piece as it moves across the cutter head.

I guess my take away from this is to "think outside the box" since that's where the picture was

Good to get the good news Barry. Jerry

Reactions: 1

coxhaus

· #22 · Oct 17, 2017

Barry747 said:
Quick update. I pulled a muscle in my back putting some shelving in a new closet so I haven't been in the shop in a few days. This morning I decided to check the jointer setup once again. It turned out right but I had a "Duh!" moment that, somewhat embarrassing, I want to share. I knew the infeed and outfeed tables were coplanar. I checked it multiple times with every straightedge that I have in the shop. The last thing was the blade height. I had eyeballed it by laying a an engineers square on the outfeed table and turning the blades. They just touched it but that was eyeball. Then I began to wonder if there was some way I could use my Digiline gage to check it. I bought it for my table saw and that's all l used it for. I looked at the directions that came with it and it was all about table saws. As I turned the box around, there was a picture of how to set it up to check jointer blades. After my headache passed from slapping my forehead with the palm of my hand I decided to try it. Although the tip of the gage is round, a flat one would work better, I was able to check each knife at both ends and in the center. They were all within .002 so I figure that's close enough. Hopefully, in the next day or two my back will permit me to cut up some lumber and run it through the jointer taking note of how i'm putting pressure on the piece as it moves across the cutter head.

I guess my take away from this is to "think outside the box" since that's where the picture was

You did pretty good for eyeballing it. I hope you figure it out and post what you find.

Cherryville Chuck

· #23 · Oct 17, 2017

I set my knives by holding a piece of hardwood down on the out feed table and let the knife springs push the knife against it. Assuming that I haven't moved the table much from its neutral position then the exposure relative to the head is close enough. As you rotate the head back and forth it should just touch the board. If it doesn't touch or lifts the board then start over. A very fine adjustment of the out feed may be necessary to be perfect.

coxhaus

· #24 · Oct 17, 2017

Sounds easy. I don't have springs in my Delta. So I have to be careful that one end does not drop down when I raise the other side. I use my gauge sliding it back and forth to check the full length of the knife.

Barry747

Discussion Starter · #25 · Oct 18, 2017

I think I solved the problem. Shame on me.

Today my back felt well enough so that I could spend some time in the shop. For those of you who don't want to read a long story, it was the infeed table. For those of you who want to say "I told you so", you're more than welcome to do so. I hang my head in shame.

Longer story. I had someone pick up a full sheet of 3/4" plywood for me (I don't have a truck) so I can put a new top on my workbench. I decided to extend it another 6", it's only 48" long due to space constraints when I first built it. The top is held up by a frame of 2 x 4's. I'm going to add a 6" frame to the end of it so I wanted to joint the 2 x 4's, that i'm going to use for the frame, so that the edges will be flat. As I said in my first post, I never had a problem with edge jointing, just face planing so I didn't expect to have a problem jointing a couple of 2' long 2x4's. Well, I did. Same darn problem as face planing. At this point I figured it has to be the setup. Over the weekend I found a 50" straight edge that had gotten buried in my last move. I had been using shorter straight edges to determine if the tables were co-planer. When I laid this one across the entire surface, the straight edge was flush to the outfeed table and touched the beginning of the infeed table in the same plane. However, the edge of the infeed table next to the knives did not touch the straight edge. I was able to get about 3 or 4 sheets of paper under it. Suddenly it all made sense since the tables were not coplanar. The jointer has been moved between houses twice in the last year. I'm guessing it happened in the first move. Anyway, I played around with it long enough that i got everything to line up. I jointed the other side of one of the 2 x 4 and I had it flat in two passes. I then took the bloodwood piece that originally caused me to post the problem and after 4 passes it was almost flat. About 10% of it was still rough but I didn't want to lose more of the board for that.

So, I hope I have the problem solved. If not, at this point, I may give it to a friend of mine who has a boat and tell him to use it as an anchor.

Thank you all for taking the time to make the suggestions that you did. You learn from your mistakes. I think I'm working on my PhD.

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DaninVan

· #26 · Oct 18, 2017

Barry; thank you! You've prompted me to get serious about adjusting my jointer.
Lee; I'm going with this YouTube description...

His home made magnetic jig is hugely less expensive than the $40+ gizmos available online!
I already have the Rare Earth magnets.

DaninVan

· #27 · Oct 18, 2017 (Edited)

I'm kinda leery about going into the garage/shop right now. There's strong winds blowing and we always get power outages as the Summer drought weakens the tree roots. All it takes is for a branch to fall off, touch both the 14.4kV primary and the neutral at the same time while it's falling. The other thing that happens is that a branchlet will hang up on the primary and the rest of the branch is left hanging down vertically...blowing in the wind. ZZZZZZap!

Sorry, meant to say the lights go off in there and the garage door opener will be out.

Jerry Bowen

· #28 · Oct 18, 2017

Perhaps one of the issues with setting up the tables on a jointer is that we need to do it so seldom and consequently we aren't as proficient at it as me would be if we had to do more often.

I am thankful that my jointer has the helican cutters. That along with the fact that I'm in the shop as much as I'd like to be means, or I think that it means, that I won't every have to mess with the set ever again.

Even though my time in the shop is relative shorter these days than it used to be, I would not want to be with out it. Almost of of my workpieces are run over the jointer and through the thickness planer. Why do I that you ask, just because I like to to is the ony answer that I can give.

Jerry

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Dejure

· #29 · Oct 19, 2017

Once in while, I get tappers. When I do, it's because of my push pattern. I try to keep all my pressure on the outfeed, near the blades, as soon as I can.

Mine is an 8" spiral long bed and I don't use it but once a month. That one time, makes it gold.

Barry747

Discussion Starter · #30 · Oct 19, 2017

Kelly, the push sequence is important. My problem wasn't the way I feed the piece, it was the downward slant of the infeed table in relation to the outfeed table. It was very small but it adds up through multiple passes. When I begin to feed the piece all of the pressure is on the infeed table. Once there's enough of the piece on the outfeed table then that's where the pressure is with only horizontal pressure in the infeed table to push the piece past the cutters. I had to edge joint another 2 foot piece of 2 x 4 for the frame i'm building to extend my workbench. It took 3 passes and it came out fine. No taper. Since I work with a lot of exotic wood i'd love to have a helix cutter head but it would cost 1/2 as much as the entire jointer so it's a bit too pricy for me right now.

Jerry Bowen

· #31 · Oct 19, 2017

Jerry Bowen said:
Perhaps one of the issues with setting up the tables on a jointer is that we need to do it so seldom and consequently we aren't as proficient at it as me would be if we had to do more often.

I am thankful that my jointer has the helican cutters. That along with the fact that I'm in the shop as much as I'd like to be means, or I think that it means, that I won't every have to mess with the set ever again.

Even though my time in the shop is relative shorter these days than it used to be, I would not want to be with out it. Almost of of my workpieces are run over the jointer and through the thickness planer. Why do I that you ask, just because I like to to is the ony answer that I can give.

Jerry

Actually the rough cut lumber that I buy has to be cleaned up as the surfaces of the lumber is actually, "very rogh" and needs to be cleaned before it can be used.

Jerry

coxhaus

· #32 · Oct 20, 2017

DaninVan said:
Barry; thank you! You've prompted me to get serious about adjusting my jointer.
Lee; I'm going with this YouTube description...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQBQfs3HZk
His home made magnetic jig is hugely less expensive than the $40+ gizmos available online!
I already have the Rare Earth magnets.

Let me know how it works out. I watched the video and he using a gauge to check everything just to be sure. I think my gauge is faster but it is not cheap. I also don't think my gauge will work on the Powermatic jointers with the springs in there. You would need to remove them.

DaninVan

· #33 · Oct 20, 2017

Lee; mine's a 6" JET. The usual gibb bolts,and Allen type jacking screws which catch the bottom edge of the knife and raise or lower it.
I was playing with it this afternoon and realized that the knives need honing. I'll try to get into Vancouver on Saturday and pick up one of those handheld honers.
This process has been a learning experience. So far I haven't found any serious issues...
Rotating and holding the cutter head is a p.i.t.a.

coxhaus

· #34 · Oct 20, 2017

It is probably best to leave the jointer alone unless you are having a problem. It is so easy to get things out of whack. Just ask me how I know.

I bought new blades a few weeks ago. I am waiting to the last minute because I hate working on the jointer. I guess I am one of the few which still likes the knife blades.

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Barry747

Discussion Starter · #35 · Oct 20, 2017

Lee, I agree and I guess you know how I feel about working on the jointer based on my posts. I really like using it, when it works, but I really hate futzing around with the settings. So much so that i'm living with blades that are still sharp but have a couple of small nicks in them. This leave very small raised lines on the work piece when I face plane. For edge jointing I move the fence over the nicks so I get clean cuts. It only takes a couple passes with some sandpaper to remove the raised lines. I'm waiting for the blades to get dull or the nicks to get bigger before I try to change the blades. To me, the choice between changing and setting the blades, and having a root canal, is a toss up.

Jerry, when I lived "up north" most of the lumber I bought was already milled and only some of it was rough cut. Since moving to Florida, and finding a lumber yard that includes a saw mill, all of the lumber I buy is rough cut from their own mill or from mills in South America that they own. So, the jointer and thickness planner are always the first machines I use in any project. That's why I originally made this post since I was losing too much lumber on the jointer. Hopefully, that won't happen any more and, if it does, I have a better idea now of what to check.

Since I buy rough cut lumber I'm not always sure of what the boards really look like. I don't own a hand plane that I could take with me to the yard. But I'm rarely dissatisfied with what I bring home. To me, one of the joys of face planning a rough board is to really see the figure as the rough outer surface is planned away. Most of the time i'm pretty happy with the result, occasionally, i get a dud. Even those without great figure have uses.

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Dejure

· #36 · Oct 24, 2017

I caught that after my post. You're off the hook and don't have to hang out with the "I screwed up" crowd this week.

Barry747 said:
Kelly, the push sequence is important. My problem wasn't the way I feed the piece, it was the downward slant of the infeed table in relation to the outfeed table. It was very small but it adds up through multiple passes. When I begin to feed the piece all of the pressure is on the infeed table. Once there's enough of the piece on the outfeed table then that's where the pressure is with only horizontal pressure in the infeed table to push the piece past the cutters. I had to edge joint another 2 foot piece of 2 x 4 for the frame i'm building to extend my workbench. It took 3 passes and it came out fine. No taper. Since I work with a lot of exotic wood i'd love to have a helix cutter head but it would cost 1/2 as much as the entire jointer so it's a bit too pricy for me right now.

DaninVan

· #37 · Oct 24, 2017

Yessss!

coxhaus said:
Let me know how it works out. I watched the video and he using a gauge to check everything just to be sure. I think my gauge is faster but it is not cheap. I also don't think my gauge will work on the Powermatic jointers with the springs in there. You would need to remove them.

Well; colour me happy!
I was in Vancouver last Saturday; stopped in at Summit Tools. They were clearing out some stuff and I spotted this puppy...
https://www.amazon.com/ROK-Planer-J...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01N1VD4EK
$34 reg price last one in stock...$19! I grabbed it. Works like a hot damn!!! Seriously, if you've fought with getting the knives just right, get one of these. Perfect ht. adjustment in seconds.
The jointer problems I was having seem to be cured, but I tried to manually hone the knives and I'm guessing I didn't do a great job...I'm just going to replace them now (maybe also get the existing ones professionally sharpened...price dependent.)

Anyways; thanks guys for getting me off my butt and doing something about the jointer. :x

coxhaus

· #38 · Oct 25, 2017

Sounds like a good price for a setup tool. I am not sure what to do with the old jointer knives. I may try to sharpen them. I only paid $25 for a set of Titan knives for my jointer. I think it would cost that much to have them sharpened.

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Cherryville Chuck

· #39 · Oct 25, 2017

DaninVan said:
The jointer problems I was having seem to be cured, but I tried to manually hone the knives and I'm guessing I didn't do a great job...I'm just going to replace them now (maybe also get the existing ones professionally sharpened...:x

Derek Willis posted a very simple home made jig years ago that claimed worked very well. It would take me a while to find it using my phone.

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DaninVan

· #40 · Oct 25, 2017

I'm willing to give it a try, Charles.

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