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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The information in this sticky must be updated but due to the limitation of the forum program it is not possible to publish it here. These links are included in the new article which is located here: http://www.routerforums.com/woodworking-articles/34320-dust-collection-updated-important.html

This is a reference point for small dust collectors.

Please note that a recent update to the Bill Pentz website makes it a must read for everyone! Bill is living with the effects of dust damage and has undertaken to educate himself, and generously, us, with what really happens when you don't take dust control seriously.

You must realize that in the days of hand tools, little dust was created and was not an issue. Modern machines create so much dust as to absolutely require control. It doesn't have to cost a fortune. You'll realize that with Bill's research. It does have to be taken seriously.

Building Dust Collector A general thread.

Chris' Rockler Small Dust Collection Separator Review

Cassandra's custom dust collector

Santé's homebuilt dust collection installation and design Even if you don't read French, this is well worth the look see. Pictures can say a thousand words. If you have any questions, just ask. Santé reads and writes English and there are other members who speak French.

The Thien Cyclone Lid.

BillPentz.com :: Dust Collection Research

The Dust Deputy - Video

Who or what have I missed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Great information we have a 2HP DC2000 for chip/dust and a AC1000 air cleaner both work great but we still use a shopvac with some of our machines and set ups!
You bring up two issues, dust collection and air cleaning. There are a variety of answers to both requirements. For those people starting out, the shop vacuum with a cyclone lid (of some sort) for dust collection is adequate. The links above address that option.

The air cleaning is a separate issue. You can buy fine filter air cleaners but they all work the same way: air being blown around and sucked through a filter. I accomplish this with a 20" box fan (garage sale special) and a 20" furnace filter taped to the intake side of the fan. You can get these filters down to 5 micron filtering. There are two objectives here, to reduce the bio hazard of working in wood dust and to eliminate spontaneous combustion from dust laden air.

I did an experiment once with dust and I can tell you it really explodes. Gave me a 20' high fireball per shovel full of sawdust thrown into a barrel from about 4' above the barrel.

When we're starting out, we often overlook safety simply because we didn't think of it. The hazard of wood dust is very real and can be quite toxic. In tiny amounts, we can tolerate it but a continuous dose, and the medical bills add up.

As early as possible in your foray into the world of wood working, especially with modern machines, install air cleaning (first) and dust collection (not quite second.) Consider buying clean air before you buy the tool that fouls it up.:yes4:
 

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OR

You can just open the garage door and let the dust out or just roll your router table outside on the drive way and do the job outside, after all that's why you put the wheels on the router cabinet, many go over the deep end with getting all the dust and it's so simple :) now if you have 20,000 sq.ft. shop you need the high end stuff but most don't..

========
 

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dust control a start

I made a air cleaner with 2 80CFM fans pulling thre air through a pretty good furnace filter and then blowing the filtered air thru 2 3" pipes to either end of the shop. I haven't gotten a cyclone for the shop vac opt to just have to empty it frequently and wash the filter bags regularly. Just wondering about methods for collecting the dust from the table before it gets into the air or on the floor.




You bring up two issues, dust collection and air cleaning. There are a variety of answers to both requirements. For those people starting out, the shop vacuum with a cyclone lid (of some sort) for dust collection is adequate. The links above address that option.

The air cleaning is a separate issue. You can buy fine filter air cleaners but they all work the same way: air being blown around and sucked through a filter. I accomplish this with a 20" box fan (garage sale special) and a 20" furnace filter taped to the intake side of the fan. You can get these filters down to 5 micron filtering. There are two objectives here, to reduce the bio hazard of working in wood dust and to eliminate spontaneous combustion from dust laden air.

I did an experiment once with dust and I can tell you it really explodes. Gave me a 20' high fireball per shovel full of sawdust thrown into a barrel from about 4' above the barrel.

When we're starting out, we often overlook safety simply because we didn't think of it. The hazard of wood dust is very real and can be quite toxic. In tiny amounts, we can tolerate it but a continuous dose, and the medical bills add up.

As early as possible in your foray into the world of wood working, especially with modern machines, install air cleaning (first) and dust collection (not quite second.) Consider buying clean air before you buy the tool that fouls it up.:yes4:
 

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You need to read the references at the start of this thread. You will find that air cleaning and dust collection is not a luxury but a necessity. You will also find out that 5 microns is a large particle, and the particles finer than 5 microns are the most dangerous. Get both an air cleaner and cyclone dust collector and save your health.
 

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My dust control system has progressed from what it was a little over two years ago consisting of one Ridgid shop vac to what it is today, two Ridgid shop vacs, one Jet 1000B (1 micron air filter), one Jet 650 Dust collector (not yet in use full time), one HF 2hp 1500cfm dust collector retro fitted with the Wynn 35A Series Cartridge kit (filters to .5 micron) in series with and downstream from a Onida Super Dust Deputy fitted to a 35 gallon barrel to collect dust and chips from my TS, two planers and joiner. My router table, osculating sander, compound miter slider saw, band saw and anything else are handled by the two shop vacs. All but the Jet filter and the shop vacs are located in an adjacent garage. My shop is located in a walkout basement and occupies about 435 sqft plus the garage where I store most of my wood and my Jeep. For now all the ducts lie on the floor and will be raised to the ceiling or at least part way up the wall. I would be open to suggestion as to what material to use for duct work and how high to move it up the wall or to the ceiling.

Pic 1 My DC system in the garage, HF 1500 dust collector with the Wynn 35A series cartridge kit and the Onida Dust Deputy at the far left.
Pic 2 the Jet 1000B It my opinion that a good air filter system should be a top priority item. You can have shop vacs and a big DC unit but the fine and hazardous particles are still in the air. When sanding I often wear my 3M mask.
Pic 3 The trusty shop vac.
Pics 4-7 the present duct system, this will change.

The reason there is anything in the bag on the HF 1500 is I didn't empty the blue barrel soon enough on two occasions. Prior to that there was just a skiff of dust in the bag.

It interesting to note that the garage has almost no dust from the DC system collecting anywhere. I do not want dust in the house from the shop so much so that we just spent a sizable amount of money to air condition and heat the shop and the rest of the basement keeping that area isolated from the rest of the house and each room separate from each other.

Pics 8&9 the A/C heat unit in the shop.
Pics 10&11 the outside condenser unit
 

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I do agree with Ron and Jerry. I have as Jerry does a HF dust collector with a Wynn 35A filter in series with a cyclone lidded container. I have drops to my lathe, bandsaw, router table, jointer, planer and tablesaw all controlled with blast gates. I have a Delta DC on my Jet lathe. I also have a Penn State Industries air cleaner. Along with this I wear a Airstream AS 400 respirator with a HEPA filter which goes on when I enter the shop and doesn't come off till I leave the shop. Merrill is absolutely right in that it is the dust particles less than 5 micron that are dangerous when taken in your lungs. I have a 12 X 24 shop with no garage door or window to open. I go thru my clock shop to get to my wood shop which are in the same building. I don't want dust to get into there. I do some flat work but mostly turning which involves a lot of sanding and that means a lot of fine dust. After my third bout with bronchitis and my Doctor telling me it could lead to emphysema I took notice. My grandfather died from it and it wasn't a pleasant way to go. So is it overkill or over the top? To some I guess that answer is "yes" but I can say I have not had any problems since adding the above plus my shop is a lot more dust free.

Ron thanks for posting the info. For those new to woodworking or woodturning it is important info and glad Mark is going to make a sticky of this info.
 

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Bernie how have you run your duct work and what material did you use? I too have blast gates at each drop and it can be a little inconvenient but I will live with it for now.

Ron I did not properly thank you for helping me see the hazards with the dust exposure. I wish I had the $$$ to add what ever is needed to complete my system. My safety equipment is the one best investment in my shop.
 

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I am using PVC pipe at about 7 ft. I then drop off that with a Y with 4 inch flex hose to the machine. I actually mistated I have 4 drops. These 4 drops take 4 Y PVC connetors. I would take a picture of it but it is actually behind the wall. I have my DC in a seperate room at the end of the shop. So when I used OSB to sheet it I actually built a second wall out 5" on the one side so I could run air lines, water lines and DC lines behind it that way it wouldn't interfer with shelving. One drop is with quick disconnects from Penn State for the router, jointer and planer. Takes about 2 seconds to change.
 

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Howdy! I was wondering if anyone had experemented with a furnace squirrel cage for an air mover and filter? Maybe incorporate into an air vac system? I have used air vacs that were small and came with a bag. Any ideas??
 

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what is the best way to mount the air filtration system
I know this is old but the generally accepted "best" is at or near the ceiling, so it's not a head-knocker and catches the small stuff floating in the air. I have strategically positioned mine to supplement the natural flow of air from my garage-shop's heater. A side benefit to me is more even temperatures around the shop. That's handy in Alaska. <g>
 

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Howdy! I was wondering if anyone had experemented with a furnace squirrel cage for an air mover and filter? Maybe incorporate into an air vac system? I have used air vacs that were small and came with a bag. Any ideas??
Smitty,

I *strongly* recommend reading Bill Pentz's site on duct collection. A link is in post #1 of this thread. He talks about both dust collectors and room air filters. He will has done a bunch of research into the topic. Bill's site is generally accepted as the best site on dust collection and filtration. I'm merely repeating what I've read on his site. :)

In synopsis, he says that the classic house air filter is worse than useless for, while it captures the bigger floating particles, it keeps the tiny ones that damage your lungs moving in the room.

Also, a squirrel cage fan (like I use on my homemade air compressor aftercooler) moves a relatively high volume of air (usually hundreds of cfm) at very low pressure (suction) while, (assuming air vac = shop vac) shop vacs provide a lot of suction but generally move less that 100 cfm.

He does give some really good ideas for all kinds of dust-related things such as how much air is needed for a certain size of downdraft sanding table, and why.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Please note: the Bill Pentz website is a must read for everyone! Bill is living with the effects of dust damage and has undertaken to educate himself, and generously, us, with what really happens when you don't take dust control seriously. It is one of the few sites based on research and not marketing.

You must realize that in the days of hand tools, little dust was created and was not an issue. I use scrapers and hand planes and I don’t generate any dust at all. But, turn on my table saw for a moment and the workshop is filled with fine dust particles scraped off the board and flung into the air, millions of times per second. Modern machines create so much dust as to absolutely require control. It doesn't have to cost a fortune. But, you'll realize that with Bill's research, It does have to be taken seriously.

There are two parts to dust collection, the implement collector and the air cleaner.

Let's start with the implement collector:

This is a chain of parts that moves dust-laden air from a tool to a particle removing method. This starts as a hose connected to the tool, i.e. the table saw. This hose gets connected to a fan that sucks dust laden air from the tool and blows it into a filter/collector of some sort.

1. One type of “dust collection” consists of bags on the end of a blower. The blower moves the air from the tool and pushes it into a filtering method. Commercial dust collection use cotton bags to provide the filtering. These bags are more or less effective as filters. This one is BusyBee’s.



2. Another type of “dust collection” is the cyclone. There are a variety of them available on the market and there are plenty of plans showing how these work and can be easily made. Again, a BusyBee implementation.



This one is a simple garbage can with a lid that directs moving air in a “cyclone” that removes particles from the air like a centrifuge. The suction comes from a vacuum cleaner that can be equipped with a drywall bag to serve as a fine particle filter.

Veritas® Cyclone Lids - Lee Valley Tools

Oneida Air Systems - Dust Deputy is a more sophisticated implementation of the cyclone philosophy. However, there’s the same philosophy, different adaptation from BusyBee and even Triton has(had?) a contribution.

Then, there's Phil Thein's "The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle." (cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm) The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle Phil has several versions of this and he shows you how to make it. If you dig around, I've come across various versions of the Thein lid.

Here are more links to dust collection methods:

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/21764-building-dust-collector.html#post185854

http://www.routerforums.com/shop-sa...st-collection-separator-small.html#post186610

http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/15742-lucky-me-new-cyclone.html#post128460

Santé's homebuilt dust collection installation and design http://www.lescopeaux.asso.fr/Equipement_Atelier/clic.php3?url=Docs/Sante_Cyclone.pdf Even if you don't read French, this is well worth the look see. Pictures can say a thousand words. If you have any questions, just ask. Santé reads and writes English and there are other members who speak French.

The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle

Oneida-air.com

The other part of dust control is the air filter.

No dust collection system can collect all of the particles that get flung around. That leaves the need for an air cleaning method. Typically, this is a blower with some sort of fine filtering. Over time, technology started to measure airborne particles in terms of microns. All you could figure was that if your filter was rated at 10 micron that was pretty course and 1 micron was pretty fine. In 2012, that no longer is sufficient. Now we have “MERV ratings.” This chart is copied from:

HTML:
<body><table><thead>MERV rating Particle Size</thead>
<tr><td>0.3 - 1.0 Microns</td><td>1.0-3.0 Microns</td><td>3.0-10.0 Microns</td></tr>
<tr><td>1-4</td><td>	-</td><td>	-</td><td>	Less than 20%</td></tr>
<tr><td>5</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>20-35%</td></tr>
<tr><td>6</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>35-50%</td></tr>
<tr><td>7</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>50-70%</td></tr>
<tr><td>8</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>70-85%</td></tr>
<tr><td>9</td><td>-</td><td>Less than 50%</td><td>More than 85%</td></tr>
<tr><td>10</td><td>-</td><td>50-65%</td><td>More than 85%</td></tr>
<tr><td>11</td><td>-</td><td>65-80%</td><td>More than 85%</td></tr>
<tr><td>12</td><td>-</td><td>80-90%</td><td>More than 90%</td></tr>
<tr><td>13</td><td>Less than 75%</td><td>	More than 90%</td><td>More than 90%</td></tr>
<tr><td>14</td><td>75-85%	</td><td>More than 90%</td><td>More than 90%</td></tr>
<tr><td>15</td><td>85-95%	</td><td>More than 90%</td><td>More than 90%</td></tr>
<tr><td>16</td><td>More than 95%</td><td>	More than 95%</td><td>More than 95%</td></tr>
</table>
</body>
Read the chart from left to right as follows:
A filter with a MERV rating of 14...
Will capture 75 - 85% of particles that are between 0.3 and 1 micron in size
Will capture more than 90% of particles that are between 1 and 3 microns in size
Will capture more than 90% of particles that are between 3 and 10 microns in size

No sooner do we figure we’ve got it figured out when someone else comes along and takes it to “the next step.”

The 3M Company has created the Microparticle Performance Rating (MPR). The 3M Filtrete MPR focuses on the smallest, and most troublesome particles - those between 0.3 and 1.0 Microns in size. Generally speaking, a filter with an MPR of 1000 is twice as effective at removing those tiny particles as a filter with a 500 MPR.



Micron

One micron is one millionth of a meter or approximately 1/25,000 of an inch. For comparison, a human hair is about 70 microns thick.

Typically, air filters are rated by the size of the particles they can remove. Most decent furnace filters can easily remove particles larger than 10 microns in size, but the best filters are able to remove particles smaller than 3 microns.

 

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Shop Made Air Filtration Completed

Since moving the shop now attached to the house, I have started with dust control. This weekend I completed a Shop Made Air Filtration System (Box) with input from this site and others posted in this thread. The Filtration uses furnace filters with a cheapo for the outside and 2 more inside that have increasing filtration. Cost was around $35 for the filters $30 for the fan and $10 for wood and screws. Next is a dust collector........ I'll be saving probably for HF's and having it outside the shop

Pic #1 Shows a cheap furnace filters results after just one week of Part-Time work attached to the front of the shops AC Window Unit. Some of the finer dust was captured by the Window Units filter but even more dust (Finer) made it to the Window Units Fins and beyond. I had cleaned the unit right before adding the furnace filter and the Fins were clean........ a visual of why Filtration is needed

Pic#2 Is the High Velocity Fan I had for the shop outback. It blows 5000 cfm

Pic#3 Is the Pocket holed 1x6 frame with the fan removed from its stand.

Pic#4 Is the channels that the finer filters will ride on inside the filtration box.

Pic#5 Is The interior channels installed and at the bottom of the shot is a set of exterior channels with a filter in it.

Pic#6 Is the botoom of the Filtration box with the exterior channels and filters on

Pic#7 Is the Air Filtration Box in the shop. The pieces of white paper towel show that it has suction from air flow
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi Jim:

I like your concepts. I believe it to be true that the volume of space between your filters and your fan will only improve the efficiency of your filters. By reducing the air pressure and increasing the filter surface, you've improved the efficiency of your filters.

I especially like the size of your fan. 6,000 cfm is lots and waaaaayyy beyond anything that's available commercially.

I am going to offer two observations though:

1. that this is the air filtering for fines that compliments a full dust collection system behind the tools. Filtering is not a replacement for collection, it is a partner.

2. I note that your filters are unrated: I would suggest if at all possible, that you stack filters (with no space between them) as much as four deep. The courser ones are to the outside and are for trapping the large particles so as not to plug up the more expensive finer filters. The finest filters should trap somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1/3 to 1/2 micron particles. That means that you need a minimum filter rating of MERV 13 and preferably MERV 15. With the power of your fan, you'll need to support your filters or the fan will pull air and dust around your filters quite quickly and possibly distort your filters, rendering them useless. Perhaps a piece of extruded steel mesh or something might do the trick.

One of the things I'm struggling with at the moment is how to determine the degree of fines in the air without a full blown pollution laboratory. One of the members is working on an alternative to the Dylos Air Quality Monitor. If anyone has any suggestions please speak up.

One of the things I found that will help with the fines is a very fine water mister sprayed around the shop occasionally. This will give the finest particles something to adhere to and speed their movement through the airflow or fall to the floor.

You have taken the bull by the horns and effected a solution. That you have done so draws the admiration of everyone on this forum. I'm offering comments based on that solution and problems I've had with my own solutions. This is not to diminish your efforts but to improve your health.

Thank you for putting your ideas forth. By your efforts, we are all learning.

Ron
 
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