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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Harry
Has kindly sent me a pic he came across and I would be interested in comments from members of the forum and those visitors to the forum.
Here is an invitation to all the visitors to the forum to register and have a say.

This is the method I use?

or

I would use a safer method.

I would be interested in how many members would use this method to rout rails similar to the ones used to create the plant stand.
 

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Tom I have always made legs with a cardboard template, used my jig saw to cut them out and then put two together and use the drum sander on my drill press. Fairly safe but slow.

With that said, I have never done any routing as shown in the pic you posted. I know that it is used fairly widely for patter routing. Bob and Rick perform lots of operations like that. I don't have any of those kind of clamps in my shop for one thing. It seems like this is a useful method used by many. Are you saying that this is not a safe method?

Corey
 

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Corey? Do you see the bit sticking up with no guarding? This is the point Tom and Harry are getting at: an unguarded bit is dangerous. It is very easy to slip and lose something that should remain attached for life. This is a major point in why Tom promotes using guide bushings and jigs, there is no way you can contact the bit.

Tom, my answer is to have a piece of wood with a plastic guard shield on the end clamped to the table so it extends over the bit. Quick, easy and safe.
 

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Mike said:
Corey? Do you see the bit sticking up with no guarding? This is the point Tom and Harry are getting at: an unguarded bit is dangerous. It is very easy to slip and lose something that should remain attached for life. This is a major point in why Tom promotes using guide bushings and jigs, there is no way you can contact the bit.

Tom, my answer is to have a piece of wood with a plastic guard shield on the end clamped to the table so it extends over the bit. Quick, easy and safe.
Hi Mike, yeah I saw the bit sticking up there. I wasn't sure what exactly Tom was trying to say. It definitely could cause injury but woodworking is inherently dangerous all by itself. I see a lot of woodworking videos etc. demonstrating this very method. My dovetail jig uses a very similar operation actually. So I guess for me it doesn't throw a red flag up immediately. Another easy fix is to put outboard handles on the jig to keep your hands free of the bit, kind of like the katie jig. You can get all crazy with all kinds of guards etc. but the key is not to be fooled into complacency with all that, but focus at all times when using power tools and know at all times where your hands are. If you can't focus then shut the tools off and go in and watch TV. I have had those days.

Given all of this, if Tom has a method to use the template guides to make the legs and do it safely at that I would like to hear and see more about it. Like I said, I wouldn't have used a router at all to make the legs. Maybe Tom can change my mind on that. :D

Thank God, the only injury I have ever gotten in the shop was a severely cut finger that required 10 stitches...the culprit... the Table Saw. The kicker is... the saw wasn't running. The blade was about an inch above the table and I wacked my hand hard on that blade and cut my around my finger to the bone :rolleyes: I hit is so hard I had carbide in my finger! Since then I have always kept my blade below the table after I use it.

Corey
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
This is the answer to routing with safety

Corey
Yes I do consider the method posted is unsafe (In my opinion) Here is my answer to the problem. In this instance dining room chairs are being produced with the router. This was the work of one of my students (Using my templates) some one who some 8 years ago was introduced to the use of the router and at that time he produced 6 chairs.
As I said in my explanation I would produce two templates one for the inside of the leg and one for the outside. In fact I have incorporated the two shapes in one template which can be reversed to complete the second side.
So safe I would have given it to one of my blind clients, the year before last when I was in charge of the class. Secondly by using the plunge mode we are able to produce a better surface routing in stages with a straight cutter. (do not cut all the way through). There is another approach (operation involved) to complete the shape. But one thing at a time.
If you look closely at one of the pics you will see a completed leg shaped to size and also with the mortices inserted. Mortices were also put in with the router before the material was taken from the Jig.
I hope all can see and understand what I am getting at. There is a safer method of using the router to produce such projects
 

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Tom,

Thank you for the detailed pictures of the operation.

I have to mention this... To me, it would have been easier to make a pattern out of 1/4" hardboard, mdf, or plywood real scale size, then just tape it to the workpiece which has been rough-cut on a bandsaw, and route it using a flush bearing bit getting it cut exactly to size in one simple operation.

In this case, what do you think?

I can see the guides & templates being used more when doing the 'carving' type projects.

Are bearing bits harder to get over there?

Thank you for your input.
 

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Joe Lyddon said:
Tom,

Thank you for the detailed pictures of the operation.

I have to mention this... To me, it would have been easier to make a pattern out of 1/4" hardboard, mdf, or plywood real scale size, then just tape it to the workpiece which has been rough-cut on a bandsaw, and route it using a flush bearing bit getting it cut exactly to size in one simple operation.

In this case, what do you think?

I can see the guides & templates being used more when doing the 'carving' type projects.

Are bearing bits harder to get over there?

Thank you for your input.
Joe, this is what I have done in the past only with a simple cardboard and then jig sawed and cleaned up on the drum sander in the drill press. I haven't used the router. Like Norm would do I guess. What you suggest is exactly what Tom is saying is unsafe due to the exposed cutter. And it is because you could slip if you are not careful and make hamburger out of your hand. But many use this method regardless. Personally I am not a fan of pattern routing like this at all so I have avoided it and use other tools instead. My Gifkin dovetail jig is somewhat of an operation like this but much more controlled.

With Tom's methods, I can see that it is much more in tune to making multiple items... such as several of the tables, multiple boxes of the same design, bunch of carved cabinet doors etc. A lot of time is put into making the templates etc. that in my opinion is just a little too much time spent for a one off project. And of course Tom's method makes it relatively safe for the blind to use the jig and use the router safely due to once the router is in the template they are not exposed to the cutter.

Corey
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Joe Lyddon said:
Tom,

Thank you for the detailed pictures of the operation.

My pleasure Joe

I have to mention this... To me, it would have been easier to make a pattern out of 1/4" hardboard, mdf, or plywood real scale size, then just tape it to the workpiece which has been rough-cut on a bandsaw, and route it using a flush bearing bit getting it cut exactly to size in one simple operation.

In this case, what do you think?

Joe; Of course it might seem easier to do exactly what you said that is because we have always done it that way. We have to approach the problem with an open mind and 'step outside the square'. If it is going to be safer then we should consider an alternative method. That is all I did. We must also keep in mind that we will produce a better surface as well. We spend the same time making a suitable template either way so why not give it a try.

I can see the guides & templates being used more when doing the 'carving' type projects.

Carving with the router was only an experimental project I was trying out. I have been using this method for over 20 years on many projects and I am sure you have seen many of my projects I have posted. if not have a look at some of my work on the various blogs I have been trying out.

http://www.woodshopphotos.com/main.php?g2_itemId=12542&g2_page=1&

http://tomodonnell.bigblog.com.au/

http://routermagic.blogspot.com/

http://templatetom.wordpress.com/2006/12/21/routing-new-projects/

http://theonlineauthor.com/templatetom/



Are bearing bits harder to get over there?

Joe we have a great range of bearing cutters readily available and I have a large number in my collection. I also have a large number of Face / Edge cutters which I use with the guides.

Thank you for your input.
I would like to see some more input and how to do presentations from other professionals out there on the forum.

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
challagan said:
Tom, I can see it now. Basically you need to make a large template holder first that will fit the larger item and then make the template itself. So what size of bit are you using in the router?

Corey
Corey
That is quite correct
The cutter size used when routing the chair backs was a 10mm straight cutter, but of course I can use a great range of cutter sizes because I have access to a 40mm Guide. When I am routing the front legs for the chair next week I will be using a 33mm Dish cutter as an example.

Tom
 

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Noticing that the bit IS sticking way up in the air, however, anyone notice the bearing on the bottom side of the bit? Other than using a shorter style of bit or as Tom would use, guides, what else is there? Only other thing I noticed not in the pic. is, where's the guide pin?
 

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Okay Tom, you have stired the waters of my curiosty. I would like to know more about templates and what is involved in making them. Is there anything you can point me too that explains the process of making a template? Perhaps a "how to" article or something?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Bob N said:
Okay Tom, you have stired the waters of my curiosty. I would like to know more about templates and what is involved in making them. Is there anything you can point me too that explains the process of making a template? Perhaps a "how to" article or something?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

Bob
That's what I am all about. Introducing new routing techniques. Have a look at the sticky 'Introduction to the use of template guides'
Keep in touch
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hamlin said:
Noticing that the bit IS sticking way up in the air, however, anyone notice the bearing on the bottom side of the bit? Other than using a shorter style of bit or as Tom would use, guides, what else is there? Only other thing I noticed not in the pic. is, where's the guide pin?
Ken
You had a good question there, re 'Where is the Guide Pin?'
Here is my explanation why the guide pin is not required in this instance
The template is longer than the material and the bearing will be guided by this extension and give a firm lead-in.

Note; In spite of thorough understanding the method shown it is not the method I would use. I will post some information if any interest is shown by members, as I do require to make some drawings to illustrate how I would produce such templates.

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
challagan said:
Tom, i would like to see more on how you design a template and bring it to the final template ready to use in your holder etc. Materials, tools used to make the template, design etc.

Corey
Corey
Have a look at the sticky 'Introduction to the use of the template guides' where the making of a simple template is illustrated.
Tom
 

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I for one would really like to see some drawings and pictures on your processes Tom. I'm what you might call a visual type person and can learn faster by seeing. Thank you for taking the time to teach a bunch of hard headed Yanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
curiousgeorge said:
I for one would really like to see some drawings and pictures on your processes Tom. I'm what you might call a visual type person and can learn faster by seeing. Thank you for taking the time to teach a bunch of hard headed Yanks.
George have you had a look at the Sticky at the top of the page. Or you may find some information on one of the blogs I have been trying out
Tom
 

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Thanks Tom. I printed your Introduction To Template Guides and if I can find time this weekend will attempt the picture frame. If successful I will post some pics... if not I will just try again. I have plenty of MDF laying around the shop. :p
 
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