[Ed3443]

Hi Guys,

I bought a house in the last 10 years that needed a considerable amount of work. I started out with the knowledge that I gained from my father when I was about 9. Through this forum and you tube I have gained the knowledge of how to do this work as well as learning to use a number of tools.

How I got myself in this situation is a long story. The short version is my father gave me a broken car and a manual when I was 17 and told me if I fixed the car it was mine. I read that entire repair manual and fixed the car. Changed my life--gave me the confidence to try to do things even if I had no idea what I was doing. And now I am here. I still believe I can do this.

I should also say here that I had a head injury when I was little and it left me with spacial issues; in other words problems seeing how shapes fit together. Wood working is a great choice for a hobby. LOL. It probably is excellent cognitive rehab.

I have replaced almost every window in the house. I have 8 left. I have replaced 2 of the 3 exterior doors. I have jacked up sections of the house and replaced sill boards and repaired and replaced joists. Where I am stuck is with the trim. I am not a finish carpenter--not even a real carpenter. All the windows and doors have proud drywall. I am not sure why. The drywall is significantly proud 1/2" in most places. I have put the trim off for a long, embarrassing long time. When I have tried to do the trim I have not been able to get the trim to lay appropriately. I originally tried to use shims but I could not get it to look right because the drywall is not consistent in the 1/2". I watched a lot of you tube videos where they recommended crushing the drywall or removing it. I am worried if I do that then will the outside trim and wall will look weird? If the trim boards (using poplar) are 3/4" and I remove 1/2" then they are only 1/4" proud of the drywall. Or am I just not understanding? DO I use thicker boards 5/4 to compensate. Or am I just over thinking all of this like my wife keeps telling me--and I think she is right--if I keep thinking about it then I do not have to do it and screw it up and be super frustrated. Anyway, I need to figure this out and do it. I have thought about paying someone but I really do not want to admit defeat here.

I have seen some people are pre-assembling the trim frame so that it is square and plumb and then fitting the wall to fit the trim. Is that the way to do it? If so, any suggestions on the best way to fit the wall to the trim?

Other ways to do it that I am woefully unaware of?

If I am going to pre-assemble the trim to fit the wall, I have been thinking of using a biscuit jointer; but after reading so many bad things about them, I looked at Festool Domino for about 2 seconds--great idea but I am not paying that much. That is always my view of Festool wow that is amazing--OMG they want what--hello Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee.... This time I looked at Dowelmax and Jessem. Both systems look excellent. They would be very useful in other situations. I am looking for the dowels to strengthen the joint but mostly for alignment in glue up. Does this make sense? Advise on the buying decision of Dowelmax or Jessem. I am leaning towards Jessem.

Any advise here I will truly appreciate. Thanks

Happy Holidays!

 

[Marco]

Merry Christmas Ed, it sounds like we have a lot in common. Post a picture giving a good example. 2 things I have learned about fixing old houses is that nothing is square and sometimes it's worth it to pay the man.

 

[CharleyL]

In my last home, an added modification to the home left me with window frames that were about 1/2" shy of being level with the surrounding sheetrock. I couldn't come close to trimming out the window with this gap, without doing something to fix it. I simply made some 1/2 X 3/4" strips of pine and extended the window frames with them, enough to be flush with the surface of the sheetrock surrounding the window, then installed the trim around the window, and nobody to this day even sees these extensions. It worked so well that when working on a friend's home, he had a window with a frame that extended into the room and was about 1/4" proud of the sheetrock. I did the opposite on his window, making a thin strip to go behind the outside edges of the face trim pieces so they sit further out from the sheetrock. these strips that I made for his window fill the gap between the trim and the sheetrock. Again, nobody has noticed these strips except for he and I. When inside and looking out through a window, you see the trim around the window that's facing you. Shimming the trim in or out from the wall is not in your field of view, so it isn't seen.

Charley

 

[Rebelwork Woodworking]

You really need to show pictures of the problems. This would help with answers.

I bought a mobile home one time and put regular house windows in. That's a challenge, but even worse was when I trimmed out windows around plaster walls. That's a challenge...

 

[DesertRatTom]

When you put up the sheet rock, did you use the same thickness? Some is 5/8ths thick, some ceiling stuff is about a 3/8. If I am reading your post correctly, the broblem is at the top and bottom where you're putting in trim, that some sheets stick out from the wall further than others.

I grew up in an old farmhouse and nothing was square or level. So I feel for your situation. When putting up drywall, you can use a straight edge to determine if the studs where you're mounting the drywall are "flat" or line up straight against your straight edge BEFORE you start. If some stick out further than others, the straight edge (long level will do) will make that clear. Theoretically you could then plane that stud back so it does align, but old wood is more like metal than wood and the plane doesn't work well. So, before putting up any sheetrock, I'd cut some thin strips from good quality studs so they push the short studs out by thickening them. If your sheetrock/drywall doesn't fit because some studs have uneven spacing or are slanted, then attach another 2x4 beside it so you can screw in the drywall.

Small errors and uneven walls kind of disappear with paper tape and mud and lots of sanding. If you texture the paint these errors become virtually invisible.

To fix this problem now, you must either settle for odd sizes and thicknesses of trim, patched together so that every time you look at it, you'll kick yourself. If there are just a few drywall panels that stick out, then you might consider removing them and if the thickness error is small, use a thinner piece, and if it's a large error, take out the adjoining piece. You can cut it in half vertically 2x8, then use the options I mention to align it as much as possible with the edges of the piece that's sticking out.

If you have just one sheet that's way off, remove that, then cut the two side pieces in half vertically. You can patch your replacement half sheet pieces in by adding strips (shims) to the studs so that the half pieces (2x8) come forward to line up with your replacement 4x8 sheet. If the error is large, buy a slightly thinner piece and shim it to line up pretty well with the side pieces. I hope that is clear.

I don't claim to be an experienced dry wall guy, but I've done a number of garages and sheds over the years, including my sunroom. Getting the drywall right makes what you're trying to do really easy, and will look great if you ever sell the place. It will take some time to do this process, but once done, you won't be kicking yourself for making do.

The other alternative is to pay someone to do it, or find a friend who has done it a number of times and who understands how to make it look great. Drywall always looks crappy when you put it up, but tape, mud, sanding and paint cover a lot of issues.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ed3443]

Thanks Everyone. I will post pictures on Saturday after Christmas.

Tom thank you for your ideas. I have not thought about removing the drywall. That makes a lot of sense. It would be a lot of work but it does make sense.

I will post pictures and I will hope there is an easier solution.

Thanks again everyone. And Merry Christmas!

Ed

 

[Roland Johnson]

I'm with Charleyl on this shimming out the windows and door jambs and heads is the way to go and if a little proud in areas that's what they make planes and caulking for. I have remodeled a lot of houses both old and new and do this all the time.

 

[Chris Itin]

In my last home, an added modification to the home left me with window frames that were about 1/2" shy of being level with the surrounding sheetrock. I couldn't come close to trimming out the window with this gap, without doing something to fix it. I simply made some 1/2 X 3/4" strips of pine and extended the window frames with them, enough to be flush with the surface of the sheetrock surrounding the window, then installed the trim around the window, and nobody to this day even sees these extensions. It worked so well that when working on a friend's home, he had a window with a frame that extended into the room and was about 1/4" proud of the sheetrock. I did the opposite on his window, making a thin strip to go behind the outside edges of the face trim pieces so they sit further out from the sheetrock. these strips that I made for his window fill the gap between the trim and the sheetrock. Again, nobody has noticed these strips except for he and I. When inside and looking out through a window, you see the trim around the window that's facing you. Shimming the trim in or out from the wall is not in your field of view, so it isn't seen.

Charley

I did this exact same thing in my 1937-vintage house some years ago. It worked perfectly and was relatively simple to accomplish.

 

[Ed3443]

Thank you for all the replies. Here are the pictures I promised. Thoughts? Thanks guys.

I

 

[Rebelwork Woodworking]

Painting or staining?

 

[Ed3443]

Painting or staining?

Painting. But Would like to hear your thoughts about staining as well. Thanks.

Ed

 

[Rebelwork Woodworking]

You would need to find out if you can purchase a wood similiar to the windows.

 

[Ed3443]

You would need to find out if you can purchase a wood similiar to the windows.

For painting you would suggest building a square trim with extensions that are 1/2 " deep going around the inside of the trim. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[Rebelwork Woodworking]

If your painting you need to build it out and flush it with the sheet rock.. you want to add a piece, but not flush, maybe off set about 1/8 so your not trying to flush it to the window frame...

 

[Ed3443]

If your painting you need to build it out and flush it with the sheet rock.. you want to add a piece, but not flush, maybe off set about 1/8 so your not trying to flush it to the window frame...

Which direction should you have the 1/8th offset. Do you have the extension sticking an 1/8th inch sticking outside of the trim (towards the window) or 1/8th inch inward so the trim hangs over the extension by an 1/8th inch? Sorry to be such a NEWBE. I really appreciate your help here. Thank you.

Ed

 

[DesertRatTom]

Is this the same on both sides on the window? Is yes, then extending the wood makes sense. If not, then something is off with the studs on the left side.

Is there a gap showing the drywall's edge above and below the window, or did you use mud to kind of fill in the mismatch? Is the top/bottom mismatch the same as the middle? I can't tell from the picture.

I think something has been added to the jack stud and or king stud to the sides of the window. If it has, then you may be able to remove it. If the top and or bottom of the drywall align and are relatively even with the drywall there, then the protrusion in the middle is the problem. A leaky window could have warped the stud. If it's off just on one side, then I think you have to take the drywall down and find out what's making it stick out that way. Fiddling with extending the jamb in this case will make it look worse.

If the window is leaking into the studs, then it needs to come out, do the repairs and fix any water damage to the jamb, and put it back in, properly fitted and sealed. Not likely to be much fun in an old house, and window can completely fall apart (at worst). It may be time to hire someone and watch how they do it so if other windows have problems, you will have an idea what to do.

 

[Ed3443]

Is this the same on both sides on the window? Is yes, then extending the wood makes sense. If not, then something is off with the studs on the left side.

Is there a gap showing the drywall's edge above and below the window, or did you use mud to kind of fill in the mismatch? Is the top/bottom mismatch the same as the middle? I can't tell from the picture.

I think something has been added to the jack stud and or king stud to the sides of the window. If it has, then you may be able to remove it. If the top and or bottom of the drywall align and are relatively even with the drywall there, then the protrusion in the middle is the problem. A leaky window could have warped the stud. If it's off just on one side, then I think you have to take the drywall down and find out what's making it stick out that way. Fiddling with extending the jamb in this case will make it look worse.

If the window is leaking into the studs, then it needs to come out, do the repairs and fix any water damage to the jamb, and put it back in, properly fitted and sealed. Not likely to be much fun in an old house, and window can completely fall apart (at worst). It may be time to hire someone and watch how they do it so if other windows have problems, you will have an idea what to do.

Thanks Tom. The drywall is about 1/2"proud uniformly. Some places maybe 3/8 and others maybe as much as 5/8. I pulled and replaced the windows myself. In some situations I rebuilt part of the wall. When I did I made sure the studs were aligned with the studs that were present. In those situations I replaced some of the drywall. I have the same issue in situations were I just replaced the windows. It is like the windows I replaced where 1/2" thinner. The original windows were Andersons and I replaced with Andersons. The house was built in 1974, but they did not do a great job. There was no flashing anyplace I removed a window. Every window has rotten out. I checked all the studs, and I replaced the studs if they looked bad at all. Everything is in plumb and level. I used new windows with plastic nailing fin. I used rubber membrane and house wrap. I just do not get why I am running into this on every window.

Here is a picture of the original window followed by the new window with no change in anything but the window. The third picture is different window that I replaced again with the same issues.

 

[DesertRatTom]

As best I can tell, the drywall is proud on both sides by about the same amount. If that's so, then you might be able to cut nice, wide inside casing so it overlaps the inside of the window frame, then fill in the gap with strips of wood that match the window. If the casing is painted, say white, it will at least look uniform. You can use a little calk to fill any small gaps between the inside casing and the strip you added.

If you want it to match the wood window material and finish, you will have to experiment with stain and finish to get a close match. Painting will be easier. Paint before you install the filler strip.

If the thickness of the entire new window is the same as the total thickness of your old windows, then it may be that the exterior casing on the new window is thicker. Or adding the flashing or any calk to seal the exterior casing to the outside wall might have added to the difference.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Ed3443]

As best I can tell, the drywall is proud on both sides by about the same amount. If that's so, then you might be able to cut nice, wide inside casing so it overlaps the inside of the window frame, then fill in the gap with strips of wood that match the window. If the casing is painted, say white, it will at least look uniform. You can use a little calk to fill any small gaps between the inside casing and the strip you added.

If you want it to match the wood window material and finish, you will have to experiment with stain and finish to get a close match. Painting will be easier. Paint before you install the filler strip.

If the thickness of the entire new window is the same as the total thickness of your old windows, then it may be that the exterior casing on the new window is thicker. Or adding the flashing or any calk to seal the exterior casing to the outside wall might have added to the difference.

Hope this is helpful.

Thanks Tom. Your feedback is very helpful and extremely appreciated. I am going to paint it white. From what you and Jack said about the inside casing there should be about an 1/8th inch gap between the window frame and the extension and that gets filled with caulk. So the extension is attached to the outer casing and not the window. Am I understanding you correctly? Then outside casing overlaps the inner casing (extensions) and there should be a reveal there of about 1/4". I am understanding this correctly? Thanks again.

 

[DesertRatTom]

Thanks Tom. Your feedback is very helpful and extremely appreciated. I am going to paint it white. From what you and Jack said about the inside casing there should be about an 1/8th inch gap between the window frame and the extension and that gets filled with caulk. So the extension is attached to the outer casing and not the window. Am I understanding you correctly? Then outside casing overlaps the inner casing (extensions) and there should be a reveal there of about 1/4". I am understanding this correctly? Thanks again.

Sounds right to me. I wouldn't really want to nail or tack into the Anderson window, and calk can cover a lot of sins. Sounds like you've got this handled!