[JayPOORJay]

Good Morning All.

I'm new here. Maybe some of y'all good people happened to read thru my intro. I appreciate all of y'all being here, and doing what you do.

I have a question. A big one, at least for me because lots rides on the the answer and what's possible. Also, the questions I'm asking will show my inexperience, so please, be kind.

Me and my fiancee just bought a big ol Colonial Craftsman Style Home. Lots and lots of molding and trim. I've counted at least 9 coats of old paint. Some areas of trim,,, ya can't even get CLOSE to seeing the profile underneath. Heat guns, scrapers and ladders, 25ft up, for this old body, not really doable. And for other reasons we've tentatively decided to take another route (making our own trim and molding) but are open to y'all's suggestions.

Anyways, I have a Milwaukee 5616-xx 2.25 HP router, and a DeWalt 1.75 HP, and a routing table. Also have a worksite rated DeWalt Table Saw.

Can I expect, if I take my time and run multiple slow passes - to route say 3 or 4 hundred feet of molding and trim that will match (or get close) to what's in the attached photos???

What would you do?

I am OPEN to any and every thought on the subject - and am not thin skinned.

 

[ger21]

That's a tricky one. Depends what you have more of, time, or money?
Is that 300-400 ft total, or 300-400 ft of each? I'd check around for a local millwork shop with a moulder, and get some prices. It may not be as expensive as you think to have it reproduced.FOr a total of 400 ft, maybe $1500-$2000? Which is not really that much, when you consider buying all the lumber, and multiple potentially expensive router bits.

It is possible to make them, but the less experienced you are, the harder it will be. Take the first one, which is some type of crown moulding? It's highly unlikely that you'll find off the shelf router bits to match, and even if you did, it would take more than one bit. So say you have your bits, and you start with either the roundover on one end, or the cove on the other.
Once you've routed that profile, there's very little wood left supporting the piece as you run it through the table. It might be easier to start with a 4"-5" board, so the edges can support the work until the profile is complete, then can be cut away on the table say last.

The second profile, is probably even more difficult. If I were doing this manually, I'd try to make all the flat surfaces with saw cuts on the table saw. The small roundover in the center would be tricky, so I'd probably do that with multiple passes with a smallerballnose bit, getting as close as possible and sanding to the final shape.

One issue you'll run into is the pieces will have some consistency issues, which is unavoidable. So any butt joints will need a fair amount of sanding to blend them. This is probably the least of your worries.

Now, after typing all this, I have another thought. If you are not concerned about historical accuracy, just replace it with a similar stock profile. Not from a big box store, but again, try to find a local millwork shop or moulding/stair company. Check commercial hardwood lumber dealers, too. The dealer we buy our lumber from has a huge moulding catalog, that they make to order.

Personally, making them would be my last choice.

 

[DesertRatTom]

First, that's a pretty big project for a DIY setup. Finding that much straight stock will be great fun. Personally, I'd rather buy it already milled because running 400 feet of 10 ft long stock is definitely going to take time. And you will need some sort of support for infeed and outfeed. Longer pieces than that will be harder to handle (you'll need help feeding and supporting the stock. The mills that shape moolding probably have a lock on really long, straight, knot free pieces.

The bit on your 2.5 hp router should handle that load, however, if you are using pine, you may need to clean it during the run, depending on how dry your stock is. Hardwood will be pretty costly for than much material.

You show the existing trim. If you are replacing ALL of it, you can cut any profile you'd like. Matching a profile is OK for dong one or two sections or rooms. The wider the molding, the more time and effort it will take to cut it. You'll find it hard to locate any bits tall enough to cut 3 or 4 inch profiles in one pass, so you will have to run the stock several times if you get the wide stuff. And if you wobble, or your attention lapses or change pressure on the stock, you may ruin pieces. So you'll need to cut extra just in case.

For me, I'd buy the molding already profiled. You can buy it in 20 foot lengths, in bulk, likely at a bulk discount. My take anyhow.

 

[Megs100]

If you're going to be taking the old mouldings down to replace them have you considered cleaning them up and restoring them whilst down and then put them back up? I wouldn't have thought it was any more work than routing new ones yourself etc, plus you're not doing it up a ladder.

 

[mtlakejim]

Just throwing this out there as a possible option:
If your a machine nut like me and have the coin to drop then maybe look at one of the Woodmaster planer/mounders. It is my understanding that Woodmaster has good service and will actually make custom knives for their machines if you send them a piece of the old trim. It won't be as inexpensive as farming the work out to a pro but you will have a combination machine that will last a lifetime!! And there is somethng to be said about doing it yourself. I don't know about other folks but I take a bit of pride in being able to do my own work when I can.......

Besides, this is that perfect opportunity to use the old "well if I just had this machine, I could do that for you honey"!!! That's my excuse about half the time LOL.

 

[bob vaughan]

300 feet in 8' strips is 37-1/2 pieces. Thirty 10-foot strips. That's a lot of sticks to be making multiple passes on and that's only one profile. That's a lot of passes and material handling even for a shaper with a power feeder. ger21 makes good points to be considered.

 

[JayPOORJay]

Hello All. And apologies for the slow reply - but from the very first posts here - many many thoughts.

All the points made are spot on, and I want to thank you all for what you have offered up! Thank you!

The first set of thoughts has to do with my inexperience going into this and taking it on. Plain and simple. I simply don't know how much work and what skill sets are involved. I just don't. I am willing (and I dare say able) to learn.

I would imagine, that of the two profiles (there are more than the two pictured here on this ol house), that curvy one with the coves is the more labor and equipment intensive, and the second less so? The one with the curves is the least of the molding/trim when it comes to what is on the house.

The majority of what's on the house is the second profile without the coves and angles on the back side. Just for my understanding of what it will take, I'm tempted to get a bit that matches or comes close to the second (a cheap bit to begin) and run one, two or three sections of pine (soft wood - which is what I'll use as it WILL be painted front and back) to get a sense of what the work feels like and what's involved. I've never done ANYTHING like this.

I should and will post some images of just how much paint is on this house and trim/molding sections. It's pretty bad. I'm guessing that the deepest layers are original paint to the house and 100yrs old. In some places the paint is so gummed that the detail of profiles can't be seen at all. Then, the boarder between the trim and whatever is behind it, one can't even see the seam. The trim will need to be removed to get anything like a proper paint job.

I would like to get ALL (or nearly all) of the trim/molding down. I'm looking at the "Alderson Paint Stripping Systems" from a company in New Zealand to do looooong runs of clapboard and the long flat sections of lumber the boarder areas of the home (terrible with terminology - please forgive). I'm thinking, and am ok, with this taking as long as it takes.

Maybe the coved trim I could get from a mill and the straight simpler stuff (is it simpler?) I can do myself?

Anyways,,, I am VERY big on the DIY thing. And worse, a real glutton for punishment, lol. Example: I have 4 old cars, long story, but they were all rescued from the crusher. V12 XJS, 2 other older Jaguars (one spent time at the bottom of a lake), and 86 Porsche and an old Goldwing that I have stripped "naked" and should have in the road this season. Today, the cars could be and are daily drivers.

We recently bought this house. On cars, for the past years I have been doing all of the car work I do on the STREET in NYC. To the wonder and sympathy of friends and neighbors. Blah blah blah - so, if this takes a lot of work I am will and able to do it. I'm good with my hands and confident in my ability to learn (with you guys' help of course)... It's going to take a lot of learning - I'm game and willing.

For some reason I just started working on restoring vintage hand wind watches and pocket watches. My television 65inches I think, I found in the trash, disassembled it completely, found the problem and repaired it. I like to fix and rescue stuff, and am willing to put the energies into the learning curve.

I would love to be able to stand back and look at what I did, with help and guidance.

I guess my idea of not wanting to do all for this work on a ladder gets into the work smarter not harder idea. The way I see it, this work MUST be done,,, can't be done by hiring someone to do it ($$$$$),,, so what is best way for me to approach doing it? If you're getting my jist? I am willing to get home from work, go to the garage, run off 4, 5, 6 lengths, turn off the lights and go in.

There will be no vinyl siding!!!

Then, there's nuts and bolts - valuation of the home. Lots of change going on in the NYC housing market and ESPECIALLY in this neighborhood we just moved into. I think a lot of the reason we got the house for the cost we did, IS/WAS to do with the exterior. If made right (like close to right right) the place, with the market going the way it might, we could walk away nearly doubling at sale. Anywho...

There is a lot - and I'm sorry this is so long. In many ways I'm rambling trying to come to terms with which direction to go.

Attached is the paint on one of the sections of wood I used as an example of profile. It's pretty bad.

Ok well, my subway ride is over (typing on my phone) and it's time to git to work.

Lol, thanks for being willing to deal with the PAIN of reading all my blathering. Good day. Talk soon!

 

[JayPOORJay]

Oh and,,, I LOVE the idea of the shaper planer,,, but the boss ain't having it, lol. Just NOPE! With a wagging finger. I'm sure y'all get the idea 😂

 

[JayPOORJay]

So, not this BIT and profile - and this is in response to Gers post - but a BIT like this one - but from a better company...

3 inch bit, on a 3 or 4 inch section of board that would need to be cut to size, in 2 or 3 passes... Would it work to produce something like that second example profile in post 1, the one without coves and rounds?

 

[mtlakejim]

If you're not going to go the proper machine route, I would lean heavily into the farm it out as others have suggested. It is almost for certain that no matter how careful you are, some of the moulding will be damaged in the process of removing it or stripping. One other way to strip paint is to sandblast (or soda blast maybe). I have never done it in place but that might even be possible?? The same argument applies, it is more expensive to farm it out but less work (you decide). Based on your description it sounds like a major job for little gain to reuse the old moulding.

And since your working 12' up you might want to consider a roll around scaffolding. Far more stable and easier to work from than a ladder!!

 

[ger21]

Would it work to produce something like that second example profile in post 1, the one without coves and rounds?

What it comes down to, is how close do you want/need to match what you have.
The less it needs to match, the easier it becomes, because you can just by a bit like you've shown. Number of passes will depend on the wood species, and how powerful you're router is. ANother thing to consider, is how long the bit will stay sharp. The more passes, the more wear on the bit, so you may need a couple of each bit to get through the project. You can get them sharpened, though.

Anyways,,, I am VERY big on the DIY thing.

I'm also very DIY
When I bought my first house, the next week I tore of the roof and re-shingled it. Then gutted it to the studs. Redid everything but the furnace 100% myself, including all plumbing and electrical, and built my own kitchen cabinets. (I work in a cabinet shop, but built them in my garage). Took me about 5 years to get 95% done. I did the last 5% after we moved out, before I listed it.
If I was in your shoes, I'd buy the mouldings. And I have about $15,000 worth of woodworking equipment in my garage. You have plenty of other places to spend your time.

 

[Rebelwork Woodworking]

That’s the problem with buying older homes. By the time you start trying to remodel, you end up breaking things you need to replace. ”Ballew Saw & Tool,Inc“ will make you cutters. Just not sure how far you your willing to go to get the match.

 

[mtlakejim]

That’s the problem with buying older homes. By the time you start trying to remodel, you end up breaking things you need to replace. ”Ballew Saw & Tool,Inc“ will make you cutters. Just not sure how far you your willing to go to get the match.

Yep, I have thought many times I would have been better off to tear this house down and build brand new!!! Probably cheaper too! And absolutely better built!!

Remodeling is almost always a comprise between what is there and what you would like to have!

 

[JayPOORJay]

I'm think'n I'm think'n...

Yes, there is plenty other stuff round the house to do.

Today I ordered a big old 35dollars Amazon bit. 3 inches. After work I'm going to go jump in the car and drive over to Lowes and grab a stretch of pine and see just how rough it would be. The bit I got is for the profile without the coves and bellies. We'll see.

I've also been looking around to see if I am able to find a mill in NJ who might be able to take care of us.

I have to say, I'm going to be a little disappointed if it's farmed out as y'all say. I was looking forward to being the MAN, lol. We'll see.

BTW - the inside of the place is pretty tight. Almost everything that needs doing is exterior. There will be no gutting going on here.

 

[bob vaughan]

Keep us posted.

 

[The Hobbyist]

If you get the urge to remodel an old house, first rent the movie, "Mr Blandings Builds His Dream House" starring Jimmy Stewart. It has MANY lessons to learn!

Joe

 

[mtlakejim]

If you get the urge to remodel an old house, first rent the movie, "Mr Blandings Builds His Dream House" starring Jimmy Stewart. It has MANY lessons to learn!

Joe

Money Pit starring Tom Hanks also comes to mind LOL.....

I own one too!!!