Magic Box vs Box Calculator question...

3566 Views 15 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Joe Lyddon, May 3, 2013

Joe Lyddon

Discussion Starter · Apr 18, 2013 (Edited)

Mike, or anyone else with the answer...

I want to make a Magic Box.

I use the Box Calculator:
A. Length... 12
B. Width..... 10
C. Height..... 6
D. # of boxes... 1
E. Material Thickness... 0.5

Gets results of:

2 12" x 10" x .5" Top & Bottom
2 12" x 5.5" x .5" Long Sides
2 9.5" x 5.5" x .5" Small sides

I want the finished size to be 6" high... from bottom to top...

According to the Plans of the Magic box, there is a 3/8" groove around the Inside of ALL Sides. When the box is all glued-up, another groove is cut around ALL sides so that the Top Lid is created which closes nicely into & over a nice fitting lip between the Lid & bottom section of the box.

Question:
As a result of those Side grooves, Inside & Outside of 3/8", wouldn't that cause the Height of the box end up to be about 3/8" shorter than the 6" I want? Therefore, requiring and additional 3/8" to be added to the Ht. of each Side to get a finished result of 6"?

Am I correct in my thinking?
Am I missing something?

Sure is a COOL project... :yes4:

Thank you very much...

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1 - 16 of 16 Posts

DaninVan

· #2 · Apr 18, 2013

Hey, Joe;if all the sides are made 6" tall, then rebating the bottom 3/8" leaves it sitting up at 6 1/8". if you also rebate the top 3/8" you gain another 1/8" for a total height of 6 1/4".
I don't see any plan on your post(?) so I'm sort of guessing at what it's finished appearance is.
If you fully rebate the top and bottom, 1/2" each, then you end up with exactly the 6" you intended.
I get the feeling though that there's something missing in your description...

Cherryville Chuck

· #3 · Apr 19, 2013

That doesn't make sense to me either Joe. I would say to rabbet all the pieces 1/4 wide x 1/4 deep and then place the sides on top of the bottom rabbets and under the rabbets for the top. That would be 1/4 + 5.5 + 1/4 = 6". But then if you cut a groove to part the top from the rest of the box you would lose that width of cut from the 6". At least that's how I'm seeing it. Like Dan suggested, it would be good to see a picture of how it is meant to be put together.

jw2170

· #4 · Apr 19, 2013 (Edited)

Hi Joe. I think from what I see in their book 'Router Projects and Jigs", once you cut the internal and external rebate to separate the top and bottom, the top drops 3/8" down onto the bottom. You therefore lose 3/8" height on the box.

DaninVan

· #5 · Apr 19, 2013

Ah! So there was a plan....but I still can't find it (?).

bobj3

· #6 · Apr 19, 2013

Oak Park Enterprises Ltd.: Catalogue

===

DaninVan said:
Ah! So there was a plan....but I still can't find it (?).

PaulH

· #7 · Apr 19, 2013

More info please--Intrigued

Joe , I'm so intrigued. Please point me to a diagram/plan/picture of this magic box. Paul

Joe Lyddon

Discussion Starter · #8 · Apr 20, 2013 (Edited)

I cannot include the Plan for these because I had to Buy them and it's not right for me to rePublish the Plan.

According to The Box Calculator, there are rabbets, etc. and the Glued-up box will be 6" high exactly... BUT, with the Magic Box Version, there are other things happening with grooves... When the Lid is cut off, the Lid will drop into the Bottom section... and according to my thinking, will take the height LOWER by approx. 3/8".

So, if I want the net result to really be 6" height, I should add 3/8" to the 5.5" dimension to allow for the eventual 3/8" reduction.
( 5.5 + 3/8" = 5-7/8")

People that have the Plans for the Magic Boxes, I guess, are the only people that can really understand my question.

Maybe I shouldn't have asked / Posted this question... (??)

I hope I have clarified the situation...

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TwoSkies57

· #9 · Apr 20, 2013 (Edited)

Joe...

If you cut the box in 2, to create the main body and lid, then a 3/8" rabbet around the outside of the main body and a 3/8" rabbet around the inside of the lid, the lid will slip down by the 3/8" inch. So you thinking is correct, add an additional 3/8" to the overall height of the sides.

come to think of it, you might want to add for the kerf of the blade your going to use to cut the box in 2....

Joe Lyddon

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 20, 2013

TwoSkies57 said:
Joe...

If you cut the box in 2, to create the main body and lid, then a 3/8" rabbet around the outside of the main body and a 3/8" rabbet around the inside of the lid, the lid will slip down by the 3/8" inch. So you thinking is correct, add an additional 3/8" to the overall height of the sides.

come to think of it, you might want to add for the kerf of the blade your going to use to cut the box in 2....

Thank you very much!

It made sense to me... but, I wanted to get confirmation...

There is no reason to account for a kerf... the 3/8 groove on the outside is cut in such a way, there is no 'kerf' at all...

It's Magic!

bobj3

· #11 · Apr 20, 2013 (Edited)

Hi

No saw blade needed to cut the top off the box (Lid ) that's why it's called a Magic Box all done with a 3/8" router Bit..on the router table,the box is glued up and then you just cut the top off with the router bit,if I recall this right Bob R. used a 3/8" router bit for that job as well..and a V bit to put in the V groove between the base and lid.

I hope that's right I have not made one for a very long time..10 years or so maybe longer

==

TwoSkies57 said:
Joe...

If you cut the box in 2, to create the main body and lid, then a 3/8" rabbet around the outside of the main body and a 3/8" rabbet around the inside of the lid, the lid will slip down by the 3/8" inch. So you thinking is correct, add an additional 3/8" to the overall height of the sides.

come to think of it, you might want to add for the kerf of the blade your going to use to cut the box in 2....

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Joe Lyddon

Discussion Starter · #12 · Apr 20, 2013

bobj3 said:
Hi

No saw blade needed to cut the top off the box (Lid ) that's why it called a Magic Box all done with a 3/8" router Bit..on the router table,the box is glued up and then you just cut the top off with the router bit,if I recall this right Bob R. used a 3/8" router bit for that job as well..and a V bit to put in the V groove between the base and lid.

I hope that's right I have not made one for a very long time..10 years or so maybe longer

==

Hi Bob,

I guess you agree with adding 3/8" to the HT. of the sides?

I think I said the same thing that you said... I was trying to be vague because I didn't want to spill the beans of something I bought, not having the right to do so.

Yes, it has been a LONG time... I only built one 'test' box... I'm thinking of building some more and just wanted to be sure about the 3/8" addition to the sides was needed to net-out at the height I wanted it to be.

:dance3: :dance3: :dance3:

TwoSkies57

· #13 · Apr 20, 2013

Sounds like you're good to go Joe....

looking forward to seeing the end result......

bobj3

· #14 · Apr 20, 2013

Hi Joe

Yes it's been a long time

I don't recall how Bob R put the top on the lid but I use a block with 45 deg.cuts on it and the sides so the height came out right..and so I didn't see any end grain showing..

==

Joe Lyddon said:
Hi Bob,

I guess you agree with adding 3/8" to the HT. of the sides?

I think I said the same thing that you said... I was trying to be vague because I didn't want to spill the beans of something I bought, not having the right to do so.

Yes, it has been a LONG time... I only built one 'test' box... I'm thinking of building some more and just wanted to be sure about the 3/8" addition to the sides was needed to net-out at the height I wanted it to be.

:dance3: :dance3: :dance3:

Mike

· #15 · May 3, 2013

Yes Joe, you are correct that you must add 3/8" to the height of the sides and ends if you need the outside dimension to be 6" tall.

Joe Lyddon

Discussion Starter · #16 · May 3, 2013

Mike said:
Yes Joe, you are correct that you must add 3/8" to the height of the sides and ends if you need the outside dimension to be 6" tall.

Mike,

Thank you very much... I just had to verify this... to be SAFE...

Hope you're having fun with your other activities!

:yes4:

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