[oldhudson49]

I’m not sure I’m posting this in the correct place and I’ll be happy to re-post to a different category if someone thinks I’m playing in the wrong park. All the operations I reference are with a table mounted router. And I’m afraid I’ll have to provide some idea of what I’m doing and why - so that my question makes more sense.

I’m building a kitchen cabinet. I’ve done a couple of complete kitchens but I’m no pro. When I did my first kitchen, I got excited about Marc Sommerfeld’s methods/tools and I purchased his matched tongue and groove bits. And I followed his suggestions using a rubber grommet/washer in the bottom of the collet. Each time a bit is placed in the collet it bottoms out on the washer. (This allows the user to cut a groove and then switch to a tongue cutter without changing bit heights and cut a matching tongue.)

This worked fine until my Craftsman 315.275062 started having switch problems. I might be able to sort them out??? But it just seems simpler to start using my Bosch 1617 EVS. EXCEPT that the collet shaft is about ½” too long. Thus the bits don’t bottom out like they did with the Craftsman. They slide down until the cutter head touches the collet nut.

So…. Can I safely add a short length of dowel to the bottom of the collet (along with the washer) so the set bottoms?

Thanks for reading all this and your input.

 

[jw2170]

In this case, I would make a set up block using your measuring guide, and keep handy for the next set up?

 

[DesertRatTom]

Use a grommet, not a washer. The grommet is larger and is less likely to crush. The 1617 should work fine if you're cutting both tongue and groove using the same router and matched bit set. Make certain you have the top surface down for every piece. If you're using big box stock, you may have some alignment issues. For something like this it's nice to have a planer and somewhat thicker stock. I've done face frames with big box store hardwood, but I am incredibly fussy about picking it out. I also go in to pick the pieces shortly after they get a new shipment of wood.

Cut some extra test pieces to set it up and use these as setup blocks. Test each piece to make sure it fits. Sometimes things move.

 

[mgmine]

No matter what you put on the bottom or top you are taking a chance. This is more or less of a "handyman trick" and not the best way to do it. If you are dealing with cheap wood then a mistake doesn't matter that much, A mistake would be that when the two pieces are put together there is a difference in height. A difference in height would be anything at all that doesn't match up. If the thickness was that of a piece of paper, that would be a big mistake. It can be sanded smooth but then the ends would be thinner than the middle. Commercial shops don't have this problem because they use shapers, and the distance is guaranteed. The best way to do it in a home shop is to use two routers both mounted to a plate. It Once set up properly it's just a matter of taken the one router and plate out and putting the other router and plate back in the table.

 

[Rebelwork Woodworking]

Problem is he has one router. Summerfield is no different than any other manufacturer selling their bits. There going to make it look easy and simple and anyone can achieve this.

 

[DesertRatTom]

Sommerfeld makes a star shaped device to set up bits for most of its most common bits. It can really help. They make two,Yellow one for their bits, red for Freud bits. They adjust to the thickness of the workpiece, which is terrific.

 

[wesmorgan]

I use a Porter Cable 7518 and have also used the Sommerfeld matched bits. You must insert a short dowel in the collet and then the grommet. This allows the bit to sit higher in the collet. Be careful to leave enough length to get a good grip on the bit shank.

 

[Alphonse53]

No matter what you put on the bottom or top you are taking a chance. This is more or less of a "handyman trick" and not the best way to do it. If you are dealing with cheap wood then a mistake doesn't matter that much, A mistake would be that when the two pieces are put together there is a difference in height. A difference in height would be anything at all that doesn't match up. If the thickness was that of a piece of paper, that would be a big mistake. It can be sanded smooth but then the ends would be thinner than the middle. Commercial shops don't have this problem because they use shapers, and the distance is guaranteed. The best way to do it in a home shop is to use two routers both mounted to a plate. It Once set up properly it's just a matter of taken the one router and plate out and putting the other router and plate back in the table.

I found two old Delta 9" table saws (about $100 each) and converted both to router tables using everything except the saw works and motors. Bolting them side by side gives me a large area and with two routers I can run tongues and grooves simultaneously. Works great for cope and stick door frames, too.

 

[Alphonse53]

I’m not sure I’m posting this in the correct place and I’ll be happy to re-post to a different category if someone thinks I’m playing in the wrong park. All the operations I reference are with a table mounted router. And I’m afraid I’ll have to provide some idea of what I’m doing and why - so that my question makes more sense.

I’m building a kitchen cabinet. I’ve done a couple of complete kitchens but I’m no pro. When I did my first kitchen, I got excited about Marc Sommerfeld’s methods/tools and I purchased his matched tongue and groove bits. And I followed his suggestions using a rubber grommet/washer in the bottom of the collet. Each time a bit is placed in the collet it bottoms out on the washer. (This allows the user to cut a groove and then switch to a tongue cutter without changing bit heights and cut a matching tongue.)

This worked fine until my Craftsman 315.275062 started having switch problems. I might be able to sort them out??? But it just seems simpler to start using my Bosch 1617 EVS. EXCEPT that the collet shaft is about ½” too long. Thus the bits don’t bottom out like they did with the Craftsman. They slide down until the cutter head touches the collet nut.

So…. Can I safely add a short length of dowel to the bottom of the collet (along with the washer) so the set bottoms?

Thanks for reading all this and your input.

I wouldn't recommend using a dowel due to the bit shank not having any head space to move while the collet draws it tight. That would be the same as bottoming the cutter against the nut before tightening. After planing all stock to same thickness, run all of one or the other profiles, then trial fit the matching profile using a short piece without any snipe. I have O-rings on my bit shanks that allow about 1/16" 'draw in" headspace.

 

[lar120c]

I’m not sure I’m posting this in the correct place and I’ll be happy to re-post to a different category if someone thinks I’m playing in the wrong park. All the operations I reference are with a table mounted router. And I’m afraid I’ll have to provide some idea of what I’m doing and why - so that my question makes more sense.

I’m building a kitchen cabinet. I’ve done a couple of complete kitchens but I’m no pro. When I did my first kitchen, I got excited about Marc Sommerfeld’s methods/tools and I purchased his matched tongue and groove bits. And I followed his suggestions using a rubber grommet/washer in the bottom of the collet. Each time a bit is placed in the collet it bottoms out on the washer. (This allows the user to cut a groove and then switch to a tongue cutter without changing bit heights and cut a matching tongue.)

This worked fine until my Craftsman 315.275062 started having switch problems. I might be able to sort them out??? But it just seems simpler to start using my Bosch 1617 EVS. EXCEPT that the collet shaft is about ½” too long. Thus the bits don’t bottom out like they did with the Craftsman. They slide down until the cutter head touches the collet nut.

So…. Can I safely add a short length of dowel to the bottom of the collet (along with the washer) so the set bottoms?

Thanks for reading all this and your input.

Hello,
Re, "This worked fine until my Craftsman 315.275062 started having switch problems."...
I have that router, and had that some problem. After spending $100+ to have it fixed (back when Sears had such people to do that), I discovered the problem: The contact point between the switch and the power line is very small - small enough that a normal amount of dust will block it. Now, whenever that problem reoccurs, I use compressed air. blowing it right into the switch and the grille around it and that will usually remove the dust. If it is really bad, I just take off the grille (a couple of screws hold it) and blow the switch connection directly. This trick has never failed (I believe it is what the folks at Sears did - no wonder they were smiling wo much when I dropped it off).
Other than that, by the way, it is a fine router (I have had it for over 15 years).
Best of luck...
- Gregory
Ridgefield, CT

 

[cabinettechnology201]

I’m not sure I’m posting this in the correct place and I’ll be happy to re-post to a different category if someone thinks I’m playing in the wrong park. All the operations I reference are with a table mounted router. And I’m afraid I’ll have to provide some idea of what I’m doing and why - so that my question makes more sense.

I’m building a kitchen cabinet. I’ve done a couple of complete kitchens but I’m no pro. When I did my first kitchen, I got excited about Marc Sommerfeld’s methods/tools and I purchased his matched tongue and groove bits. And I followed his suggestions using a rubber grommet/washer in the bottom of the collet. Each time a bit is placed in the collet it bottoms out on the washer. (This allows the user to cut a groove and then switch to a tongue cutter without changing bit heights and cut a matching tongue.)

This worked fine until my Craftsman 315.275062 started having switch problems. I might be able to sort them out??? But it just seems simpler to start using my Bosch 1617 EVS. EXCEPT that the collet shaft is about ½” too long. Thus the bits don’t bottom out like they did with the Craftsman. They slide down until the cutter head touches the collet nut.

So…. Can I safely add a short length of dowel to the bottom of the collet (along with the washer) so the set bottoms?

Thanks for reading all this and your input.

Hello woodworkers and I address this to

I’m not sure I’m posting this in the correct place and I’ll be happy to re-post to a different category if someone thinks I’m playing in the wrong park. All the operations I reference are with a table mounted router. And I’m afraid I’ll have to provide some idea of what I’m doing and why - so that my question makes more sense.

I’m building a kitchen cabinet. I’ve done a couple of complete kitchens but I’m no pro. When I did my first kitchen, I got excited about Marc Sommerfeld’s methods/tools and I purchased his matched tongue and groove bits. And I followed his suggestions using a rubber grommet/washer in the bottom of the collet. Each time a bit is placed in the collet it bottoms out on the washer. (This allows the user to cut a groove and then switch to a tongue cutter without changing bit heights and cut a matching tongue.)

This worked fine until my Craftsman 315.275062 started having switch problems. I might be able to sort them out??? But it just seems simpler to start using my Bosch 1617 EVS. EXCEPT that the collet shaft is about ½” too long. Thus the bits don’t bottom out like they did with the Craftsman. They slide down until the cutter head touches the collet nut.

So…. Can I safely add a short length of dowel to the bottom of the collet (along with the washer) so the set bottoms?

Thanks for reading all this and your input.

Hello, I am Jay Boutwell and I own a business known as "Cabinet Technology" where I do custom high-end woodwork. I am currently assisting Sommerfeld tools by taking care of the Customer and Tools Support for Sommerfeld Tools. I have about 50 years woodworking experience and most of these years include using tools from Sommerfeld Tools. I will answer the above question from your member "oldhudson49' who is having some problems with the tongue and groove bit set from Sommerfeld tools that is made for the purpose of building cabinets boxes and attaching a face frame to the cabinet box. This set is identified as Item# 03004 which is the three-piece set shown on catalogue #25 page 10 and or also the Pro set Item # 04001 also shown on catalogue #25 page 10. (This also applies to the Sommerfeld on-line catalogue found at www.sommerfeldtools.com as the pages in the online catalogue are the same as the hard print catalogue #25)

When the Router bits are shipped from the company warehouse, they include a written article on a small tab of paper that gives you instruction on dealing with the Sommerfeld router bits and some router models that have a deeper than normal collet depth. The solution is to use a short length of 1/2 inch dia wooden dowel in the bottom of the collet and then the rubber grommet or bushing on top and in a regular depth router collet. The process is simple as you begin with a 7/8" long 1/2-inch dia dowel and begin a few of scrap wood tests. I will include a copy of the article that is included with the majority of the Sommerfeld router bit sets. Directions For Deep Collets On Routers 001 (2).jpg

If you are using the Sommerfeld Easy Set tool the process is to set the groove cutter first and then with the above router collet modification, they you simply set the groove cutter using the tongue and groove finger tab on the Easy Set tool and cut your grooves. Once ready to cut the tongues all you have to do is loosen the router collet and remove and insert the tongue cutter bit tighten and begin routing the tongues. the setting should be correct as that is the unique feature of the "Same Length" bits. The same goes for all the other bit sets known as "Same Length matched bits" such as the door making bits. It works on the principle of a collet tightening on the bit shank will pull down on the bit the same amount from a given point each time and will crush the rubber grommet the same amount each time. It should be noted that a person should replace the grommet after a few months of use as the rubber grommet will harden from age and use. They are available by order and are in-expensive. One should be included with each bit set that is ordered. I hope this will clear up all the questions about routers of which have deeper collets and allow the bit to bottom out without the shank sitting on the bottom of the collet. Most of the time it will be some models of the Bosch, Porter Cable, and other brands of routers. If the router bit bottoms out, then they will not work with matched bit length shanks without the modification. Yes, you can leave the dowel in the router as it will still operate properly with all the router bits and work safely as it places the shank well into the collet. Thank you for the opportunity to answer this question about the Sommerfeld router bits. Work safely and please stay well. Regards, Jay Boutwell Sommerfeld Tools.

 

[cabinettechnology201]

I wouldn't recommend using a dowel due to the bit shank not having any head space to move while the collet draws it tight. That would be the same as bottoming the cutter against the nut before tightening. After planing all stock to same thickness, run all of one or the other profiles, then trial fit the matching profile using a short piece without any snipe. I have O-rings on my bit shanks that allow about 1/16" 'draw in" headspace.

That is the reason for the rubber grommet. It allows the bit to suck down in the collet as it tightens on the bit. You put the dowel in first with the rubber grommet next and then the router bit.

 

[oldhudson49]

Hello,
Re, "This worked fine until my Craftsman 315.275062 started having switch problems."...
I have that router, and had that some problem. After spending $100+ to have it fixed (back when Sears had such people to do that), I discovered the problem: The contact point between the switch and the power line is very small - small enough that a normal amount of dust will block it. Now, whenever that problem reoccurs, I use compressed air. blowing it right into the switch and the grille around it and that will usually remove the dust. If it is really bad, I just take off the grille (a couple of screws hold it) and blow the switch connection directly. This trick has never failed (I believe it is what the folks at Sears did - no wonder they were smiling wo much when I dropped it off).
Other than that, by the way, it is a fine router (I have had it for over 15 years).
Best of luck...
- Gregory
Ridgefield, CT

I'll certainly give that a try. Thanks.

 

[oldhudson49]

Hello woodworkers and I address this to

Hello, I am Jay Boutwell and I own a business known as "Cabinet Technology" where I do custom high-end woodwork. I am currently assisting Sommerfeld tools by taking care of the Customer and Tools Support for Sommerfeld Tools. I have about 50 years woodworking experience and most of these years include using tools from Sommerfeld Tools. I will answer the above question from your member "oldhudson49' who is having some problems with the tongue and groove bit set from Sommerfeld tools that is made for the purpose of building cabinets boxes and attaching a face frame to the cabinet box. This set is identified as Item# 03004 which is the three-piece set shown on catalogue #25 page 10 and or also the Pro set Item # 04001 also shown on catalogue #25 page 10. (This also applies to the Sommerfeld on-line catalogue found at www.sommerfeldtools.com as the pages in the online catalogue are the same as the hard print catalogue #25)

When the Router bits are shipped from the company warehouse, they include a written article on a small tab of paper that gives you instruction on dealing with the Sommerfeld router bits and some router models that have a deeper than normal collet depth. The solution is to use a short length of 1/2 inch dia wooden dowel in the bottom of the collet and then the rubber grommet or bushing on top and in a regular depth router collet. The process is simple as you begin with a 7/8" long 1/2-inch dia dowel and begin a few of scrap wood tests. I will include a copy of the article that is included with the majority of the Sommerfeld router bit sets. Directions For Deep Collets On Routers 001 (2).jpg View attachment 401013 View attachment 401013

If you are using the Sommerfeld Easy Set tool the process is to set the groove cutter first and then with the above router collet modification, they you simply set the groove cutter using the tongue and groove finger tab on the Easy Set tool and cut your grooves. Once ready to cut the tongues all you have to do is loosen the router collet and remove and insert the tongue cutter bit tighten and begin routing the tongues. the setting should be correct as that is the unique feature of the "Same Length" bits. The same goes for all the other bit sets known as "Same Length matched bits" such as the door making bits. It works on the principle of a collet tightening on the bit shank will pull down on the bit the same amount from a given point each time and will crush the rubber grommet the same amount each time. It should be noted that a person should replace the grommet after a few months of use as the rubber grommet will harden from age and use. They are available by order and are in-expensive. One should be included with each bit set that is ordered. I hope this will clear up all the questions about routers of which have deeper collets and allow the bit to bottom out without the shank sitting on the bottom of the collet. Most of the time it will be some models of the Bosch, Porter Cable, and other brands of routers. If the router bit bottoms out, then they will not work with matched bit length shanks without the modification. Yes, you can leave the dowel in the router as it will still operate properly with all the router bits and work safely as it places the shank well into the collet. Thank you for the opportunity to answer this question about the Sommerfeld router bits. Work safely and please stay well. Regards, Jay Boutwell Sommerfeld Tools.

Thanks for you detailed and authoritative reply. It just made sense that adding dowel would solve my issue. Certainly the difference in collet shaft lengths couldn't be unusual and the fix had to be simple.

 

[jw2170]

Welcome to the forum @cabinettechnology201 , Jay...

 

[Alphonse53]

That is the reason for the rubber grommet. It allows the bit to suck down in the collet as it tightens on the bit. You put the dowel in first with the rubber grommet next and then the router bit.

Thanks for the tip! I have several 890's (obsolete marvels) I can use that on.

 

[old55]

Welcome to the forum @cabinettechnology201