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Discussion Starter #1
I live in England. Most of English measurements have now converted from Imperial to Metric. If I buy wood or steel or wire or tap fittings, they shall all be in metric.

My router is metric. It comes from Europe. I find my router satisfactory. It has good horsepower, it is easy to change bits and seems to be relatively accurate.

Realistically, if I buy router bits over the counter, they can only be bought in Imperial sizes. Obviously I can buy metric bits online, however quality tool stores such as Axminster, Derby Tool Supplies etc which I like shop at for for advice and help, simply only stock Imperial router bits. The same when I am in the USA at Rockler etc. I guess I would expect that when the USA is an Imperial measurement country.

In the post I made yesterday about Top Bearing Guided bits, I perhaps should have added that I shall have to borrow a friend's DeWalt for that task as I have only been able to buy Imperial bits - one in Rockler and one in Axminster.

Just thought I'd comment. Sorry if I'm in the wrong section of the Forum. I'm not safe in Rockler, my Wife would tell you!:no:
 

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Look again!

I live in England. Most of English measurements have now converted from Imperial to Metric. If I buy wood or steel or wire or tap fittings, they shall all be in metric.

My router is metric. It comes from Europe. I find my router satisfactory. It has good horsepower, it is easy to change bits and seems to be relatively accurate.

Realistically, if I buy router bits over the counter, they can only be bought in Imperial sizes. Obviously I can buy metric bits online, however quality tool stores such as Axminster, Derby Tool Supplies etc which I like shop at for for advice and help, simply only stock Imperial router bits. The same when I am in the USA at Rockler etc. I guess I would expect that when the USA is an Imperial measurement country.

In the post I made yesterday about Top Bearing Guided bits, I perhaps should have added that I shall have to borrow a friend's DeWalt for that task as I have only been able to buy Imperial bits - one in Rockler and one in Axminster.

Just thought I'd comment. Sorry if I'm in the wrong section of the Forum. I'm not safe in Rockler, my Wife would tell you!:no:
_____________________________________________________________________

This is a line copied from an Axminster page on their website: TCT cutters with either 6.3mm(1/4") or 12.7mm(1/2") shanks. Maybe you should look at their website again under.....Power Tools | Routers & Trimmers | Router Bits | Cutter Sets

IMHO
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That is the problem, Julian. They have 1/4" or 1/2" shanks only. Great place Axminster, I love it in there!
 

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Hi Mike

You say that your router comes from Europe and is metric. I have European routers (Bosch, Elu and deWalt) and they all have both metric and Imperial collets available. Same applies for other European brands, such as Felisatti. Freud, Metabo, Einheil, Scheer, etc. If you post the make and model of your router I'm certain that someone here will be able to help you source an Imperial collet

I agree with you about the availability of metric shank cutters - in mainland Europe 6mm, 8mm and 12mm are the standard sizes for portable routers with few (rare) places selling 1/4in or 1/2in shank cutters (the UK and Ireland standard sizes), but you can get some over the counter metric shank cutters - try a Trend or Titman stockist because both do a limited range of straight cutters (and some others) with metric shanks. For mail order I tend to go to Wealden Tool because over many years I've found their quality and service second to none. Good prices, too. They have a range of 8mm shank straight cutters which might be of interest to you.

As an aside I think the 8mm shank size in the UK goes back to Elu days - they always suppliedm (or made available) their smaller routers with 8mm collets. An 8mm shank is much stronger than a 1/4in one (60% more cross section area) which means that in the hands of ham-fisted tradesmen like me they are less likely to break! :no: Profile cutters often take a much lighter cut, so there was less urgency to have 8mm shanks on them, and that's where things seem to have stuck

Regards

Phil
 

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I have straight bit cutters in 6, 8, 10, and 12mm I've purchased from Onsrud in the states. Onsrud are very high quality. I've seen one post at least by a CNC member stating that he was getting far better service from Onsrud bits than he had been getting from Amana.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Trying different size collets

I must admit I haven't tried different size collets. I presume they are are available for metric routers. Up till now, i have only changed router bits not colletsDerby Tool Supplies (really good and almost equal to a Rockler outlet if more expensive!) specialise in Trend though they do have DeWalt and Bosch routers (they are a DeWalt Service Centre) and do not sell any metric shanked bits whatsoever. I asked at Axminster in Nuneton and got the "What the H___ do you want those for?!" type of replies.

I was just interested in asking why metric size shanks are realistically available only online in England.

I would love to do more routing and have a dedicated router table.

Just on another weird note, dado saw blades are either illegal or practically impossible to buy over the counter in England!:no:
 

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I have bushings to go from 1/2 down to the 6, 8, and 10s. I have to get a 12mm collet for those bits.

I have heard that some saws over there don't have a long enough spindle to mount dadoes on so getting a set from over here wouldn't help.Just as a by the way, I've been using a dado set for 30 years without ever having an incident of any type.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Chuck and Van, you ought to have seen the look on the faces of Arlington Texas Rockler people when I mentioned that dado blades don't seem to exist and from what I can gather are not permitted in England! Yes, you are correct about the nanny state. Gets awful cold in Canada though!
 

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We are gradually headed that way. It seems that it is easier to try and idiot proof every thing that to try and teach good sense and procedure. I've always said that if you think you can idiot proof something then it means you've yet to meet every idiot. I've always thought training and education was a better idea sort of like the parable about giving a man a fish or teaching him how to fish.
 

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Just on another weird note, dado saw blades are either illegal or practically impossible to buy over the counter in England!:no:
Not illegal, Mike, but problematic because of the requirement for new table saws to come to a stop within 10 seconds of an emergency stop - manufacturers have tended to ensure that their arbors are therefore too short to accommodate, although a few European firms (e.g. Scheppach and Felder) do support their own 2-part split tenoning heads, which are anti-kickback designs much nearer to modern spindle moulder tooling and consequently a lot safer in use/smoother cutting than a stacked saw dado head. In any case, the biggest buyers (at one time, back in the 1960s, anyway) were in the trade - and virtually nobody in the joinery trades has really cut trenches for stuff like bookshelves for decades because of tools like biscuit jointers, Dominos, etc. Rebates are pretty much always cut on a spindle moulder or with a router in a commercial establishment, so the dado head really has limited appeal to what was the biggest market.

If you really want a dado head in the UK, the way to go would be to fix it onto a radial arm saw, make sure that you have a decent guard on the blade (see the HSE website for details) and make or fit an automatic return mechanism so thet when you let go of the handle the saw head retreats back out of the way.

I have heard that some saws over there don't have a long enough spindle to mount dadoes on so getting a set from over here wouldn't help.
A bigger problem would be the arbor size - the standard over here is 30mm - most USA 10in saws have 5/8in (16mm) arbors. The 10in deWalt radial saws we see here have for many years and still do have 5/8in arbors long enough to accommodate a 3/4in wide stacked saw dado head

As to the nanny state, whilst I'm not always keen on the interpretations some people place on the regulations, I have to admit that in general many of the rules we live by here in the UK save lives and reduce serious injuries. Maybe that's because I'm now the responsible individual on about a third of the jobs I go on so I can see things from a different perspective. The fact that I can be fined personally for the misdemeanours of others and even imprisoned in extremis is another stimulus to safe working practices

Regards

Phil
 

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Thanks, Andy

Regards

Phil
 

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Toolstation sell metric router bits, I have just purchase six of these, four 1/4" shank and two 1/2" shank, braded Silverline. They have stores all over the UK mine being only about ten minutes away and they are inexpensive.
Whether they will last is a differant matter. They need to be kept clean and occasionly sharpened with a diamond stone.

totallyhornby
 

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braded Silverline
That rings alarm bells for me! Silverline stuff really isn't that good - a lot like Harbor Freight in the USA, but a bit cheaper. :rolleyes: I'd say caveat emptor. You have a decent router, the DW625, Martyn, so why not buy some decent router bits for it? I'll recommend Wealden Tool - used them for years, excellent service, reasonable prices, next day delivery and they do metric in 1/4in, 8mm and 1/2in shank sizes. I've tried Silverline - poor quality brazing, not very sharp, break a tad too easily for my liking, bearings not always concentric and the 1/2in worktop cutters they sell tend to "scream" and can burn edges because they don't have sufficient clearance angle (same goes for a lot of the Screwfix 1/2in cutters - except for the Freuds). As I use 15 or more worktop cutters a year that becomes an issue. Very, very variable. But then I'm trade, and a bit picky because my livlihood sort of depends on using reliable kit. BTW no connection to Wealden other than being a satisfied, long term customer for more than 15 years

Regards

Phil
 

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As to the nanny state, whilst I'm not always keen on the interpretations some people place on the regulations, I have to admit that in general many of the rules we live by here in the UK save lives and reduce serious injuries. Maybe that's because I'm now the responsible individual on about a third of the jobs I go on so I can see things from a different perspective. The fact that I can be fined personally for the misdemeanours of others and even imprisoned in extremis is another stimulus to safe working practices

Regards

Phil
Phil,

I feel for you. I am out of the workshop and back into IT now, but in Aus the situation is pretty similar. WH&S have an attitude that someone is always responsible for an accident and will just keep going up the management chain until they find someone they can blame, at the same time making stupid rulings. I will always remember the inspection where the workshop was written up for bad housekeeping because there was rubbish on the floor, but overlooked 415V cables lying on the floor where people walked. That sort of thing only inspires cynicism. I hope you don't get caught up in such stupidities for your sake.

Darryl
 

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WH&S have an attitude that someone is always responsible for an accident and will just keep going up the management chain until they find someone they can blame, at the same time making stupid rulings.
Hi Daryll

At times I do wonder about some of the things which go on in the name of health & safety, but on the other hand I have generally had good relationships with the HSE (Health & Safety Exec = our version of OHSA). Personally, I've met very few HSE inspectors who are "jobsworths" (actually only one to date and he was a complete arriss) and in general they tend to only point out really obvious safety things and won't take action if you are willing to take on board the safety implications and do something about it. As it happens on my last inspection we had only a 15 minute chat about minor stuff and nothing more - the guys working on the adjoining site (same building) had a full site tour, an hour being admonished and about 12 pages on notes about their various infractions which were everything from no First Aid kit, no bathroom facilities and no fire extinguishers (they said they shared ours!!!) to nobody on site with a First Aid certificate. There were 5 guys on that job. The HSE red carded them on the spot.

Most of the time it's simply a case of thinking about the way you are going to set-up a job rather than jumping in and trusting to instinct. Instinct is often flawed, I've found. It's the big companies who hide behind H&S who anger me - they'll say something can't be done "because of health and safety". Most often they are really saying they don't want to do it and are just using H&S as a get out.

None of this accounts for my dislike of unguarded rio saws, missing riving knives or poor rip fences - training and experience still tells me just how dangerous they can be

Regards

Phil
 
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