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Mini Fence by Krymi Corp

16K views 43 replies 19 participants last post by  old55  
#1 ·
I'm looking for someone who has a "Mini Fence" by Kyrmi Corp that was sold at "The Woodworking Shows" in the early to mid 90's. It is a black plastic jig with a white plastic strip insert that you mount on a table saw to allow you to cut small box joints and to make inlay strips from multi-color wood. I need a copy of the manual for it, but would consider buying the whole jig from you if you have one to sell. There is a video of this jig on Youtube under "The Original Mini Fence" but this is all that I have managed to find for it. Mr Krymi stopped participating in the shows in the mid 1990's and his company no longer exists. If you can help, please send me a PM.

Thanks,
Charley
 
#2 ·
Charley, I doubt you will get a response to this. Woodsmith sells plans for a box joint jig of this type but the best design is from Oak Park and for use on your router table. MLCS and Peachtree sell this style of jig and you can also make angled cuts with them by using an angled push block.
 
#4 ·
MAFoElffen, I think the inventor ( Mr Kyrmi?) was 76 when I met him back in 1994, so he would be about 96 now, if he's still alive. He was the same person who demonstrates the jig in the Youtube video of The Mini Fence. At the time that I met him he told me that he was finally retiring at the end of the show season that year.

A reverse look up of the phone number on his literature comes up with an entirely different company name and location. The phone number that you supplied is a residence that belongs to a Mr and Mrs Seels so I've decided to hold off calling it for now.

Mike, the Woodsmith, I-Box, and other box joint jigs that are on the market don't make box joints as small as the Mini Fence can, which can make joints with kerfs as small as the narrowest kerf (1/16") 10" table saw blade. These other jigs seem to all be limited to 1/4" for their narrowest kerf width, except for the I-Box jig, which bottoms out at about 1/8" and is the closest in minimum kerf capability to the Kyrmi jig that I've found. I already own an I-box jig and use it for most of the box joints that I make, but I prefer the Kyrmi jig when doing the very small box joints because of it's narrow kerf capability.

Again, all I really need is a copy of the manual for the Kyrmi jig (don't know where mine went), but if someone has a complete working jig with the manual and wants to sell it I would consider buying it from them. It only sold for $49 back in 1994.

Charley
 
#5 · (Edited)
I have never seen it, heard of it, nor know anything about it...

All I found was a company listing of Kryrmi Plastics aliased as Krymi inc, that held some trademarks for some woodworking jigs. Other than that, nothing. No disrespect meant by that. Was just trying to help or come up wit ideas.

It is really sad about things like that. There have been some products in the past that were fantastic... well thought out and worked... Were well before their time. But just not well known. And went away when their originators retired. Woodworking jigs are just some of those. Reminds me of the Maxim Tool System, JoinTech and the products from Oak Park...

Do you have a picture you could share of this? I am curious to see it.
 
#6 ·
Mike, I very much appreciate your help. I also found the listings that you found, but very little else. He had told me that he was retiring at the end of the season when I bought the jig from him and I never saw him again after that, although I attended the woodworking shows every year. He and his jig disappeared from the shows.

Since I can't find my manual, or even all of the parts of my Mini Fence, all I have to show is a one page sales/ordering brochure for the Mini Fence. You can go to Youtube THE ORIGINAL MINI FENCE - YouTube and watch the video called "The Original Mini Fence" to learn more about it. Although not a professionally made video by today's standards, it does a good job of demonstrating the Mini Fence and it's capabilities. The gentleman in the video was also the inventor of the jig and the one that sold the jig to me.

I've used my Mini Fence to make some very small decorative boxes and inlays, but not in about the past 10 years or so. Now I want to do it again and I can only find part of the jig and no manual. I probably still have these some place, but I have moved and cleaned/reorganized my shop several times since then and I have no idea where they have gone. I'm usually very careful about keeping jigs/parts together, so I have no idea how this jig got scattered/lost.

It's not very hard to make a small box joint jig, but getting it to perform well is a bit tricky. The Mini Fence was easy to set up and use, and the manual provided great tips on making decorative inlays. The only problem that I had with it was using it on my Unisaw. On a Unisaw the blade is farther back from the front edge of the saw. This is usually very desirable in a table saw, but it causes you have to lean over the saw quite far to see and position the work in this jig. A smaller, lower powered table saw with the blade closer to the front of the saw table would be a better choice for using this jig.

Charley
 
#8 ·
I loved the video. I can see where there was a lot of thought put into that to make that easy to set up.

I also see that (since it isn't available any more) that it could be a DIY project worth making. Just trying to figure out how I could attach something to my sliding table or to one of my cross-cut fences. My new saw doesn't have miter slots, but has slots in the sliding table.

Darn it Charley. Now you have me making plans.

Thanks for sharing that.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Mike,

The plastic Mini Fence jig is almost toy quality and quite delicate. A jig made from wood with a plastic strip would likely last forever. I'm also considering making a jig to replace my Mini Fence jig. There are 2 slots for the fence strip in the original jig, one on each side of the saw blade. This is to allow you to be able to index the work in either direction past the blade by moving the fence strip to the other side of the blade. Only one slot is really needed. The moving section of the table part of the jig allows you to position the fence strip for making inserts in the center of mitered corners (see video). Wood spacers are used to get the cuts in the correct position. Only the first cut is made, then the fence strip is moved back to it's original position to make the follow on cuts. In my opinion, this movable base section isn't really needed, unless you plan to use the jig a lot for this purpose.

Can you lock your sliding table? Then you could use the miter slot to mount the jig. You could also drill and tap 2 holes in your saw table (you probably don't want to do this). The jig can be made mirror image to the one in the video and it will work the same, but you will index your work across the jig in the opposite direction. It always needs to go past the saw blade and toward the fence strip.

The strip that forms the working part of the Mini Fence needs to be narrower than your saw blade kerf, at least where it is above the base, and the ends of it are longer to keep it from sliding out of the slot while in use. If you look very closely in the video you will see this. When you use the jig you have to always position your work against this strip as you feed the work into the saw blade. The space from this side of the strip to the blade and the width of the saw blade kerf have to be exactly the same dimension for the jig to work properly. If there is any run-out in your blade you will have difficulty getting this fence to blade spacing correct. Once you get it right the first time, make a setup block, like in the video, so you can put it over the fence strip and then butt the blade against it, while you lock the jig in position on the saw. It will make life so much easier. The video makes this jig positioning part look way too easy. It will take many attempts to get it right the first time. It will be much easier after you have made the setup block, but if you use different blades with the jig you will need to make a setup block for each blade.

To make boxes with greater than 4 sides you will need to tilt the work back as you slide it over the saw blade. The original jig has wedges made from wood that are used to replace the wood fence on the miter gauge to make doing this much easier. The wedge shaped fence needs to be cut to match 1/2 the angle of the joint and it replaces the flat board on the miter fence. On the first use you will need a slot cut through it to clear the fence strip. I usually just mark where it will be and cut the slot before installing and using this new wedge on the jig the first time.

This is a fun jig to use. I hope others beside the two of us get inspired to make these jigs. But a router isn't required until you make inlay strips with the jig. Then you need a router to make the recess that you will glue the inlay strips into, so routers do eventually get used here :~).

To make inlays with the jig you simply make many finger cuts through a piece of wood, then cut these fingers off to make small square strips. You then make another similar strip of contrasting wood with shallow fingers. Then insert and glue the square strips into the saw cuts of this contrasting strip. Once these strips are assembled you can get creative, slicing them cross grain or diagonal and gluing them together to make miniature checkerboard or Indian art style inlays, or cut the checkerboards into squares and insert them turned at 45 deg angles into inlay strips, etc. Your imagination and time are the only limits once you start doing this. I use white glue when making these inlays. It dries transparent and seems more than adequate in strength for making inlay strips. Waxed paper above and below the inlay strips keeps them flat and from sticking to the bench and counterweights while the glue dries.You want the inlay strips to be just slightly proud of your work surface when installed, so you can sand them level and smooth.

The attached is all I have of the Kyrmi Mini Fence documentation. It is 20 years old, so please don't anyone try to order from it. I have posted it for "information only".

Charley
 

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#14 · (Edited)
Thanks DrRouterBob and lprugh. I now can see you uploaded the manual to the forum last year too. Last year was not a good health year for me and I didn't follow the forums much, so I must have missed your posts. But I have downloaded a copy today, thank you. Now that I have the manual, I'm going to have to go look for my half finished home made version of the jig. It's still somewhere in my shop, but my health and other matters seem to have relegated it to the very bottom of my todo list, but this project has now taken on a higher priority again.

Have either of you used your Mini Fence? Would you be interested in selling it? Please send me a PM.

Charley
 
#15 ·
Hi Charley
Was cleaning my garage tonight and came across this jig. I did not have a manual, but I did have a vcr tape. I googled it to see what I could find out about it and why I never used it. Not sure if vcr tape is any good will try to watch in next few days. Not sure if it can be copied or not. Was still in the bag from woodworking shows when I bought it about 20 years ago. Will watch utube. When I bought it he must have gave me some samples of what he cut as there were 4 tiny boards with finger joints cut in them.

Fred
 
#16 ·
And here, ladies and gentlemen, is the finest sort of example of one woodworker coming to the aid of another.

This is Fred's very first post, and he has obviously gone to the trouble of reading this thread and has responded in the kindest possible way. I think he deserves a round of applause from us all. :smile:
 
#17 ·
Welcome, Fred. That's the spirit! I agree with Keith, jumped right in and helped. Good job.

Bill
 

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#20 ·
Mini Fence by Kyrmi

Gents,
I have one still in the bag also, plus the three angled boards for the different shaped boxes.... I want to learn to do the fine checkerboard inlay boards that he did at the shows so effortlessly. The old gentleman demonstrating the mini fence said in the video that it is not very good for long cuts, but with a metal fence on a board and a thin enough blade, it could be very interesting.
The VHS is poor quality as you said, and Kyrmi Inc. is still in Eckert, Co. I intend to call them tomorrow, and see if there are any better videos available. If I get any replies from this post, I will post the results.
Scotty
mr.scottyatcomcast.net
 
#21 · (Edited)
Scotty,

I tried to call them last year, without success. I hope you have better luck. The last time that I saw Mr. Krymi was at a Woodworking show. He was in his late 70's and the show was back in 1998. During my discussion with him he told me that he would be retiring after that show season. I hope he's still alive, but I doubt it.

I've found that Youtube has the video available, but it's the low resolution VHS copy.

I'm still looking for a complete Krymi Original bMini Fence Jig . If someone should decide to sell theirs, please send me a PM..

Charley
 
#22 · (Edited by Moderator)
Charley,
I tried the phone number too, but I got some nice lady who said it was no longer Kyrmi. I just wish the technology of the time had been better to fix the focus in the VHS, and he had explained the glue up of the inlay strips better to show how he made the different designs. I would like to make some of those beautiful inlays that I see on the web for guitar rosettes around the sound hole. Those guys work at a ninja level and I am still a grasshopper.

I still have the jig, the angle blocks, the instruction folder, and the VHS from 20+ years ago. I have been trying it for a couple of days. Making the ends for a box/finger joint appears easy, but I want to make the long cuts like he demonstrates at the end of the video for inlay. I am making lots of saw dust, but as you said, it is difficult to set for the first cut.

My table saw's channels for the miter bar are about an inch too far out for the Original mini Fence (OMF) base, so I have made a plate from 1/2" plywood to which I have attached the OMF. So far the cuts are not parallel to the side of the wood block, and I cannot get them to fit together - - so I must have the distance from the cut to the fence wrong, and the blade not parallel to the fence. More sawdust today. I glued rails on the plywood plate last night to sit in the saw's table top slots. Today's experiment. If I get totally exasperated with this device, I will let you know. A jig for a jig - - how 'bout that. Jury-rigging at it's finest.
Scotty
PM Scotty
 

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#27 ·
This is great stuff guys. I wonder if this jig could be used on the router tale. You would not have to lean over the top of your table saw. Another thing I saw on the video was him holding with his hands some narrow pieces of wood at 90* to the fence. It seems to me that some kind of aid is in order to make the cut more accurate and safer.
 
#28 ·
After trying many times, and making mucho saw dust, the system finally works acceptably for the corner finger joints. Measuring with tape, and even micrometer messed up every time. Kentucky windage and the eyeball finally worked. 4 sided box is next. As yet, I haven't been able to make acceptable long cuts to make the contrasting interlacing checker board patterns for inlay, that he shows in the VHS. You can see the gaps in the cuts, but tightbond 3 fills well.

Has anyone made this in wood yet, or tried it on a router?
 

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#31 · (Edited)
I started to, but then got way too busy and it got put aside. Right now I'm still too busy to put any time into it, or even get to do much woodworking, so I won't likely get caught up and get another chance until the Fall. I can't even be on here as much as I would like to this time of year. I'm not a farmer, but I might as well be for the amount of outside work that this place requires. When everything is growing, I'm very busy. The lawn alone is about 3 acres, and it's raining almost every afternoon this Spring/Summer.

Right now I'm inside on a heat break, and cooling off. It's 92 F outside right now with 62% humidity (lower than usual), and there are very few clouds to provide shade. By around 6 we will likely have another thunderstorm and heavy rain. By 8 we usually get to watch the Sunset. Then tomorrow it will very likely do the same all over again.

Charley
 
#30 · (Edited)
Very impressive. You have done well.

Box joints are much harder to make than they appear, especially these little 1/8" ones.
Mr Krymi was able to adjust his jig without fancy measurement equipment, but I never seem to be able to do it this way. I have all kinds of digital measurement tools and readouts on my power tools to get the results that I want. A machinists caliper will let you measure both inside and outside measurements, so the pins and spaces can more easily be compared. A micrometer measures only outside dimensions, so only the pin width can be measured with it. The relation between the pins and the spaces (saw cuts)
are what is important, and not the actual dimensions of either.

I always make the pins of my box joints a little long and then trim them off flush on the router table, using a flush cutting bit, after the box has been assembled and glued, but they don't need to be as long as in your first picture. By making them just a little long I never have any short pins after the glue up. Be careful not to make them too short, because there is no good fix for "too short" pins after box assembly. You can fill the small voids and chip outs with sanding dust from the same kind of wood, mixed to a thick bpaste with glue and then apply it before the final sanding steps and the joint will look good from the outside after the sanding.

You will do better with a FTG Flat Tooth Ground blade. Your's looks like it is ATG Alternate Tooth Ground from the little triangle voids at the bottom of the cut. I believe that Mr Krymi had a ATG blade in his demo saw. It will leave the bottom of the cuts clean and square. A 1/8" FTG blade is available from several sources. Mine is a Freud LM72R010 (actually 0.0126 width). It does a much better job of cutting 1/8" box joints with smooth sides and bottoms. I have the blade, but it's difficult for me to get my I-Box jig set narrow enough to get the 1/8" box joints to fit perfectly, which is why I've been hoping to find a an Original Mini Fence.

Long cuts will require the jig's white strip to be very parallel to the blade. If it isn't, the cuts will be wider than they should be, making the pins narrower than they should be. Getting them truly parallel with each other should solve your long cut problem.

A sacrificial backer of some MDF or other thin scrap wood will also reduce some of the chipping and.splintering when used behind your work as you make the cuts. If you use scrap wood, keep the grain direction the same as your work. Mr Krymi used 1/4" red cedar for his demonstration wood, because it is soft, cheap, and cuts very clean. Most other woods do not cut as clean this easily.

Please update your profile, at least enough so we know your first name. We have too many members with the first name of N/a. I could guess that it's Clive, but have been wrong before.




@hawkeye10

Don,

This jig was designed for use with a table saw. A 1/8" router bit is available, but they are very fragile, especially if made from solid carbide, and when long enough to use with a jig that's about 5/8" thick, I think this size of box joint is best done on a table saw.

Actually, I tried making larger box joints on my router table and didn't like the result, even though the I-Box jig that I was using is designed for use with either the table saw or router table. It caused too much splintering of the pin edges as the cutter exited the wood. I now only make them on my Unisaw with the I-Box jig and either my Freud 1/8" box joint blade or their 1/4 & 3/8" box joint blade set. It will also work with a good DADO set for wider pins, but I have never used it with either of my DADO blade sets. The I-Box jig has a 1/4" MDF sacrificial backer in it's design to reduce edge chipping and splintering. I use a different position in this sacrificial piece each time that I set up the jig. It's just 1/4" MDF and the first thing that I did when I received the I-Box jig was to get some 1/4" MDF and make a bunch of copies of this piece. They can be used many times before both the top and bottom of each one is completely cut up and needs replacing (they can be inverted). I'm now on my third since getting the I-Box, but I have about a dozen more of my copies left. Incra now sells these for about $3 each in 3 packs, but they are so easy and cheap to make that I will just make more myself when I begin running low. They are just rectangular strips with four countersunk holes in the middle area of each. Cut them to size with a table saw, and then set up stops on the drill press for one of the hole positions, Then drill and flip the piece 4 ways until all four holes are drilled, then change the bit for a countersink, remove the stops from the drill press, and then countersink all four holes of each piece from the smoothest side. Done. I bundle the excess and wrap them with stretch wrap, then put them in my shop cabinet for future use.

Charley