[sreilly]

And I'd viewed more videos than I can take. As I haven't bought or used chisels in a long time, and those were Stanly's used to notch wood like 2x4's and the like, I bought a set of Narex Bench chisels and finally got around to taking them out of the packaging. I had also gotten a set of Narex Mortise chisels. So after seeing these videos and wanting to do the right thing I decided to flatten the back side of the chisels. I have the DMT Diamond Duo plates with Coarse/Fine/X-Fine diamond plate surfaces. I found from trying to flatten a bench plane iron that I needed something a bit more than coarse to start with as the iron had never been flattened. So I ended up with using some Norton wet/dry 220 grit paper which did a decent job of getting the stubborn edges flat all the way across and then proceed with the other three steps polishing it more and more as I went. I finished the iron using the Veritas MKII system and got a really shard iron. So this morning I was excited about taking on the chisels until I wasn't. As the shoulder isn't 100% yet and won't be for at least another 5-7 weeks I just wanted to flatten the widest chisel and check it's flatness. Hoping the coarse plate would be a good starting point I quickly became discouraged. I'm using water as my lubricant and I'm only trying to flatten from the tip back maybe 2-3" and quickly saw that this was far from flat. I had run my HF 3 chisels very quickly and they did well, mostly in about 10 minutes on coarse but the Narex was well into 40-45 minutes and that included the 220 grit sandpaper and coarse diamond stone, possibly longer. I was starting to feel some soreness in my hand and realized I was flattening them as well. As trying to hold the width of the chisel flat and with pressure I was using both hands similar in the same method you would for CPR except I was standing. They don't mention what to do with skin cells in the mesh of the diamond stone but I figured I'd clean that up for good measure and the slurry was stopping any bleeding.....and I have really smooth palms. The chisels in this subject are found here https://www.infinitytools.com/narex-premium-bench-chisels

So back to Google, DMT's website, and Amazon (the website not the jungle). So I ordered the Extra Extra Coarse Diamond Stone and should have that in a few days but I still have the issue with holding the chisels flat on the stones. So I immediately thought of the wisdom of this group and thought I could entertain you with my antics, abrasions, and newly smoothed skin while seeking some wisdom other then "send them to Louie's Sharpening Service and get it done for $50". I can't be the first, and if I am I loose, to have this kind of issue with sharpening, or at the least the flattening process. I was thinking that there must exist somewhere a holder that will allow a strong grip on a small part so it can be help down flat with pressure and allow good clear hand contact. Anything guys and gals? My palms would greatly appreciate it. Some pics included to hopefully see the problem.

Next thing to tackle would be the mortise chisels...........

 

[sreilly]

Thanks guys, I knew you'd come through. The first mention of magnets and my mind was swimming with ideas. I could use some rare earth magnets I have and use them recessed into a flat wooden handle to keep those chisels and plane irons steady and the hands off the surface. I know these things, just deep down farther then I looked it seems. Stick thanks for the advice and pdf. Those mortise chisels should be fun. Arthritis is having some affect as well so a larger surface to hold will help tons. Thanks again. Now where did I put those magnets.........

 

[sreilly]

The sharp comes from the edge of two points meeting, the bottom flat and the beveled angle.

 

[sreilly]

@sreilly - Steve: when I need to flatten the back of a chisel or plane iron, I use the magnetic base from a dial indicator to start. Saves me from having to exert pressure using just my fingers. I start with some 80 grit sandpaper on plate glass if the back needs a lot of flattening, moving up to 120, then 150. At that point I'll move to my diamond plates then onto my Japanese water stones.

Excellent idea and I'm ashamed I didn't think of it.

 

[sreilly]

​

Nope, not watching utube videos on it. Don't trust many utube videos. Got my belt sander sharpening idea many years ago, from a world class furniture maker, and darned if I can recall who it was, but it has worked very well for me, so not changing my sharpening method. From what I learned, got his chisels at the local hardware, and never flattened the backs of his chisels. Plane irons, fine, they always cut at the same angle - or at least supposed to. Chisels never cut at the same angle, they always are at a different angle, even if it is just a minute difference, so as far as I can tell a minor bit off on the sharpening is meaningless. My grandfather was what most would call a master carpenter today, and none of his chisels had flattened backs, as far as I know. Do chisel manufacturers recommend flattening the backs?

Hey if it works for you and you're happy with the results why change now. But as is with most things there are ways to do things and ways to do things properly. I tend to lean toward properly as there is a reason for these to develop. In my case I want quality tools that will help get the job done well. In the case of chisels and planes, as I'm finding out, there's cutting and shaving. In many cases you could think of it like shaving your face. Now I've seen some faces that could be shaved with an ax and not be any the worse for it while most it would destroy. The difference is the material and the sharpness of the cutters. The sharper the cutter the cleaner the cut. Like shaving with a new sharp blade, it will cleanly cut through while that 2 month old used every day blade with likely pull harder and whack off the cut leaving less than smooth in its wake. Question remains what to use and how to get there. The attachment Stick replied with takes you to that place as do many articles written by those we would consider professionals/experts.

My intent along this path is to learn the proper recommended way to first choose, setup, and use quality tools. Afterall someday these will belong to my son and they might as well be worth having. They don't have to be Lie-Nielsen quality but good quality non the least. Again it comes down to what is acceptable to you and how far you want to go. I'm not looking to become a master woodworker but I would like to acquire those skills.

 

[sreilly]

I seem to be getting well invested in sharpening. I happened on a piece of granite at Woodcraft while at a demo this past Saturday and it's on sale. I figured that it will work great for sharpening and it's on sale. See https://www.woodcraft.com/products/granite-surface-plate-12-x-18-x-3-a-grade?via=573621f869702d06760016df%2C58051ef669702d7fa6002153 So even though the shoulder whined the whole time carrying it down to the basement shop it sits proudly in one corner for now. PT wasn't too keen about it either....seems I talk to much. And I do have a 8x10x1/4" sheet of plate glass. But along that line I have the slow speed Rikon grinder that has 2 CBN wheels from Wood Turners Wonders. The first is a 180 grit Mega Square and the other a 600 grit 4 in 1 wheel intended for sharpening my lathe tools. I also installed them using the Self-Aligning Spherical Washer Sets - for two CBN Wheels they sell. Seems there should be a way to hold the chisel backs to the square side for some quick flattening and then move over to the diamond plates. Just trying it on a HF 1" chisel while holding it flat using 3 fingers on the flat side of the wheel with the spinning on the clockwise side of the Mega Square 180 grit took it to flat quickly. Just how flat I'm not sure. I had emailed Wood Turners Wonders and asked about flattening and Joe's response was "The flat side of the CBN is 1 inch wide and a true flat so Chisels should be no problem.but it may be hard to align and flatten a plane iron on the side of the wheel. I would recommend using our flattening hone for that. It is 10x4 and has 80 grit on one side and 1000 on the other."

As for the plates I was kicking around the idea of taking a very flat piece of hardwood and installing two Magswitch 95# magnets that would be about 1/8-3/16" shy of flush to lock the iron/chisel in place while the wood itself would be above the surface that 1/8-3/16" thus keeping dry. Using a roundover bit to ease the holding edges and maybe even use something like a 1"x 1" rounded handle in the middle. I don't think getting any higher would be wise as it might be easier to tilt and that's not good. This should allow good gripping and control on the iron/chisel movement on the plates and allow better pressure if needed. At least that's how it plays out in my mind. Of course that's not always reality but that's why we build prototypes, over and over again. Thinking of this as we age, and some of us get arthritis or just weaker grips, it should be something that will allow us to accomplish the task at hand without stress. Just need to find the right design. Doesn't seem to be any out there that I've found and I've been looking for a few days. Is there a downside to this I'm not seeing?

 

[sreilly]

For those who may be somewhat confused about the terms of mesh and micron versus the more commonly used grit the attached PDF will give you DMTs listing of Standard grits that they list as micron/mesh and a conversion chart to see what that relates to in grit.

 

[sreilly]

Steve - I bought one of those surface plates from Lee Valley years ago and have rarely used it. If you've got a countertop company near you, you might see if they have a piece of granite lying around - it could be significantly cheaper or free - (I like free) and it will do the same thing as that $50 item.

Too late for me, I picked mine up last week. But I did get two free doughnuts......during the demo.

 

[sreilly]

So now that I have compared my notes to the plates on hand, well the extra extra coarse will be here tomorrow, I have the plates in the following grits:

Extra Extra Coarse: 120
Coarse:325
Fine:800
Extra Fine: 1,800

If I should get the Extra Extra Fine that would be 8,000

From what I've been reading what I have now should suffice but I could always go higher it seems. I wonder just how high before the edge becomes brittle from being so thin? There has to be a reasonable point before it just becomes bragging rights. I guess depending on the hardness of the wood being chiseled or planed might make a difference. Highly figured wood even on the end grain should do well as 1,800 grit.

 

[sreilly]

Oh trust me I'm a believer and Paul Sellers is high on my video list. For those not aware you can see his website here. https://paulsellers.com/other-websites/ I'm a subscriber of his blog. I really like his style and ability to clearly teach.