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New Chisels....

6422 Views 44 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  Barry747, 
sreilly
5
And I'd viewed more videos than I can take. As I haven't bought or used chisels in a long time, and those were Stanly's used to notch wood like 2x4's and the like, I bought a set of Narex Bench chisels and finally got around to taking them out of the packaging. I had also gotten a set of Narex Mortise chisels. So after seeing these videos and wanting to do the right thing I decided to flatten the back side of the chisels. I have the DMT Diamond Duo plates with Coarse/Fine/X-Fine diamond plate surfaces. I found from trying to flatten a bench plane iron that I needed something a bit more than coarse to start with as the iron had never been flattened. So I ended up with using some Norton wet/dry 220 grit paper which did a decent job of getting the stubborn edges flat all the way across and then proceed with the other three steps polishing it more and more as I went. I finished the iron using the Veritas MKII system and got a really shard iron. So this morning I was excited about taking on the chisels until I wasn't. As the shoulder isn't 100% yet and won't be for at least another 5-7 weeks I just wanted to flatten the widest chisel and check it's flatness. Hoping the coarse plate would be a good starting point I quickly became discouraged. I'm using water as my lubricant and I'm only trying to flatten from the tip back maybe 2-3" and quickly saw that this was far from flat. I had run my HF 3 chisels very quickly and they did well, mostly in about 10 minutes on coarse but the Narex was well into 40-45 minutes and that included the 220 grit sandpaper and coarse diamond stone, possibly longer. I was starting to feel some soreness in my hand and realized I was flattening them as well. As trying to hold the width of the chisel flat and with pressure I was using both hands similar in the same method you would for CPR except I was standing. They don't mention what to do with skin cells in the mesh of the diamond stone but I figured I'd clean that up for good measure and the slurry was stopping any bleeding.....and I have really smooth palms. The chisels in this subject are found here https://www.infinitytools.com/narex-premium-bench-chisels

So back to Google, DMT's website, and Amazon (the website not the jungle). So I ordered the Extra Extra Coarse Diamond Stone and should have that in a few days but I still have the issue with holding the chisels flat on the stones. So I immediately thought of the wisdom of this group and thought I could entertain you with my antics, abrasions, and newly smoothed skin while seeking some wisdom other then "send them to Louie's Sharpening Service and get it done for $50". I can't be the first, and if I am I loose, to have this kind of issue with sharpening, or at the least the flattening process. I was thinking that there must exist somewhere a holder that will allow a strong grip on a small part so it can be help down flat with pressure and allow good clear hand contact. Anything guys and gals? My palms would greatly appreciate it. Some pics included to hopefully see the problem.

Next thing to tackle would be the mortise chisels...........

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Danman1957
Steve,

I bought my Narex chisels from Lee Valley over 10 years ago and my students are still buying them today. In my opinion, they are by far the best bang for your buck on the market. You can find better but at an outrageous price. I have never had issues with flattening or sharpening. I flattened the backs when they were new and check them when I hone/sharp them and I have not had to re-do the backs so far. I know many people will disagree but, I use a stone with honing oil and I would not change from this, I get excellent results and all by hand, no guides or jigs. This is the method I was tought and it is what I teach my students. Sure you can get a slightly sharper edge from diamond plates and some machines, but for fast and easy I swear by my method that is also inexpensive.

Dan
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G
I use the magnet from an old speaker. it makes it comfortable to hold chisels and irons as small as 1/8". Another magnet type is the one from parts trays from HF. The tray must be removed. Using a magnet eliminated the cramping I would get when trying to hold chisels and irons. I have made several hand planes, some requiring very small irons, and this trick was a huge step forward.
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JOAT
sreilly said:
Hey if it works for you and you're happy with the results why change now.
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Has worked for me for years, am very satisfied with the results, and not about to change. Have realized tho, that I believe you all are doing things differently than me. You all seem to be using your chisels by hand. I don't, I use them for carving, and whack them with various sizes and weights of carving mallets. I've done the by hand thing, but found out that carving, with mallets, is a lot more fun. Speaking of which, have the material for another Tiki or three. And been wanting to make a totem pole for some time now, maybe I can fit one of those in too.
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sgcz75b
JOAT said:
Has worked for me for years, am very satisfied with the results, and not about to change. Have realized tho, that I believe you all are doing things differently than me. You all seem to be using your chisels by hand. I don't, I use them for carving, and whack them with various sizes and weights of carving mallets.
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I'm curious. What does it matter whether a chisel is used by hand or whacked with a mallet as to the edge sharpness and flattening the chisel back?

I can understand perhaps a different angle of bevel for a relative degree of edge strength, but don't understand why a sharp edge on a chisel primarily used for hand work would not apply to a wood carver's whacked chisel?

Any ideas?

Thanks.
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sreilly
I seem to be getting well invested in sharpening. I happened on a piece of granite at Woodcraft while at a demo this past Saturday and it's on sale. I figured that it will work great for sharpening and it's on sale. See https://www.woodcraft.com/products/granite-surface-plate-12-x-18-x-3-a-grade?via=573621f869702d06760016df%2C58051ef669702d7fa6002153 So even though the shoulder whined the whole time carrying it down to the basement shop it sits proudly in one corner for now. PT wasn't too keen about it either....seems I talk to much. And I do have a 8x10x1/4" sheet of plate glass. But along that line I have the slow speed Rikon grinder that has 2 CBN wheels from Wood Turners Wonders. The first is a 180 grit Mega Square and the other a 600 grit 4 in 1 wheel intended for sharpening my lathe tools. I also installed them using the Self-Aligning Spherical Washer Sets - for two CBN Wheels they sell. Seems there should be a way to hold the chisel backs to the square side for some quick flattening and then move over to the diamond plates. Just trying it on a HF 1" chisel while holding it flat using 3 fingers on the flat side of the wheel with the spinning on the clockwise side of the Mega Square 180 grit took it to flat quickly. Just how flat I'm not sure. I had emailed Wood Turners Wonders and asked about flattening and Joe's response was "The flat side of the CBN is 1 inch wide and a true flat so Chisels should be no problem.but it may be hard to align and flatten a plane iron on the side of the wheel. I would recommend using our flattening hone for that. It is 10x4 and has 80 grit on one side and 1000 on the other."

As for the plates I was kicking around the idea of taking a very flat piece of hardwood and installing two Magswitch 95# magnets that would be about 1/8-3/16" shy of flush to lock the iron/chisel in place while the wood itself would be above the surface that 1/8-3/16" thus keeping dry. Using a roundover bit to ease the holding edges and maybe even use something like a 1"x 1" rounded handle in the middle. I don't think getting any higher would be wise as it might be easier to tilt and that's not good. This should allow good gripping and control on the iron/chisel movement on the plates and allow better pressure if needed. At least that's how it plays out in my mind. Of course that's not always reality but that's why we build prototypes, over and over again. Thinking of this as we age, and some of us get arthritis or just weaker grips, it should be something that will allow us to accomplish the task at hand without stress. Just need to find the right design. Doesn't seem to be any out there that I've found and I've been looking for a few days. Is there a downside to this I'm not seeing?
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G
Steve, When a chisel is sharpened by first flattening the back (usually only once), the chisel's flat side can register against the wall of a mortice/tenon and you can achieve a straight cut. It also helps when paring to produce straight slices, like when making shoulder cuts. As far as the bevel...when you look at the sharpened cutting edge under a microscope, it becomes evident. Magnified... the scratch marks look wavy and corrugated. The finer the steel is abraded at the cutting edge, the easier and better it will perform. This is even more evident when paring across soft wood fibers like pine...where the fibers alternate from grain to grain. If a chisel is honed to 8000 plus grit, then stropped 50 to 100 times, the chisel is much sharper than your barbers best straight razor's edge. The same thing applies to hand plane irons sharpened this way, and will slice curls even on end grain. They also plane with less chatter.

On another note: Bench planes generally have longer chisel irons, and they make it easier to aim the chisel in the right direction because of that...Kind of like aiming a rifle versus a pistol.
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sreilly
For those who may be somewhat confused about the terms of mesh and micron versus the more commonly used grit the attached PDF will give you DMTs listing of Standard grits that they list as micron/mesh and a conversion chart to see what that relates to in grit.

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woodknots
Steve - I bought one of those surface plates from Lee Valley years ago and have rarely used it. If you've got a countertop company near you, you might see if they have a piece of granite lying around - it could be significantly cheaper or free - (I like free) and it will do the same thing as that $50 item.
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sreilly
vchiarelli said:
Steve - I bought one of those surface plates from Lee Valley years ago and have rarely used it. If you've got a countertop company near you, you might see if they have a piece of granite lying around - it could be significantly cheaper or free - (I like free) and it will do the same thing as that $50 item.
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Too late for me, I picked mine up last week. But I did get two free doughnuts......during the demo.
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sreilly
So now that I have compared my notes to the plates on hand, well the extra extra coarse will be here tomorrow, I have the plates in the following grits:

Extra Extra Coarse: 120
Coarse:325
Fine:800
Extra Fine: 1,800

If I should get the Extra Extra Fine that would be 8,000

From what I've been reading what I have now should suffice but I could always go higher it seems. I wonder just how high before the edge becomes brittle from being so thin? There has to be a reasonable point before it just becomes bragging rights. I guess depending on the hardness of the wood being chiseled or planed might make a difference. Highly figured wood even on the end grain should do well as 1,800 grit.
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sgcz75b
Paul Sellers, one of the masters of woodworking, takes a chisel bought at Aldi's, and sharpens it.

Shows that ability and knowledge, available to anyone, surpasses the myth that great price and name brands don't exactly correlate to quality.


Watch and learn from a master.

Steve
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Cherryville Chuck
It's true Steve. I've taken ones that are about Stanley/Fuller/newer Marples quality and gotten them sharp enough to shave the hair off my arm with. They say the really good ones will hold the edge longer. Maybe that's true.
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sreilly
Oh trust me I'm a believer and Paul Sellers is high on my video list. For those not aware you can see his website here. https://paulsellers.com/other-websites/ I'm a subscriber of his blog. I really like his style and ability to clearly teach.
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JOAT
sgcz75b said:
I'm curious. What does it matter whether a chisel is used by hand or whacked with a mallet as to the edge sharpness and flattening the chisel back?

I can understand perhaps a different angle of bevel for a relative degree of edge strength, but don't understand why a sharp edge on a chisel primarily used for hand work would not apply to a wood carver's whacked chisel?

Any ideas?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Dunno, the only way I use chisels is by whacking them with a mallet. I have no problem getting them sharp enough to shave hairs off my arm with, then I whack them with a mallet. l did a bit of hand use of a chisel when I first started, maybe 70 years ago, then discovered how much more fun it was with mallets - I don't do woodworking as such, I carve. What I do know is, it works for me, and I'm not gonna change now.
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sgcz75b
JOAT said:
Dunno, the only way I use chisels is by whacking them with a mallet. What I do know is, it works for me, and I'm not gonna change now.
Click to expand...

Now that I can believe.
Thanks for your reply.
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harrysin
sgcz75b said:
Paul Sellers, one of the masters of woodworking, takes a chisel bought at Aldi's, and sharpens it.

Shows that ability and knowledge, available to anyone, surpasses the myth that great price and name brands don't exactly correlate to quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki8tt-VjwqI

Watch and learn from a master.

Steve
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A very good video Steve. I'm heartened to see that he uses the exact method that I have used for many years and posted early in this thread.
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G
I use the Aldi chisels Paul Sellers recommended, and they are awesome. They hold an edge and sharpen very well. My only negative is that they are metric in sizes...but that is minor. They have nice wood handles and long beveled blades...perfect for bench work. The other drawback is you have to buy them when they make them available, which in the USA seems to be about 3 times a year.
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sgcz75b
gmercer_48083 said:
I use the Aldi chisels Paul Sellers recommended, and they are awesome. They hold an edge and sharpen very well. My only negative is that they are metric in sizes...but that is minor. They have nice wood handles and long beveled blades...perfect for bench work. The other drawback is you have to buy them when they make them available, which in the USA seems to be about 3 times a year.
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I have an Aldi's near me and I'm always looking for the chisels to appear to pick up a couple of sets one for me and one to sharpen and give away.
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Cherryville Chuck
One of the best things about Seller's video is that he does everything by hand, no sharpening aids. Proving you don't need a $700 Tormek to get sharp tools. I use diamond plates, the cheap ones that come 3 in a package for $10 on sale. The best ones for sharpening to a good edge are the ones that are 200-300, 400, and 600. Then 2500 grit carbide paper mostly for the bottoms. The most expensive part of my sharpening system is a hard felt 8" wheel and some green honing compound which is about 8000 grit. You can use the compound by hand like Sellers did but the powered wheel is a lot easier.
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sgcz75b
Another great thing about Seller's videos is there's no blasting music, he's confident without being an obnoxious woodworking jerk, he enjoys what he does, and is a natural teacher that loves his subject and helping others.

Long Live Paul Sellers.
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