[yfngoh]

Hi,I'm Frank from Dallas, I'd just started last year on the woodworking hobby.

I have a Ryobi BT3100 table saw (lots of uses for me; my son thinks my hobby is cutting wood) and a Dewalt 3-pack 618 router (no usage to date, hence my interest in this forum). While I had built and mounted the router to the aux. table in the table saw, I haven't gotten any worthwhile projects to work on it. I then came across the woodworkingchannel with the 2 router guys and it piqued my interest .. and triggered a big buying pang

I'm thinking of:

1. oak park router top (I'll build the stand myself).
Question: it looks rudimentary. The fence doesn't allow any featherboards?
Is it safe?
Is one tied to all oak-board accessories for other projects? e.g. can I build my own box-jig to go with it or do I have to buy the ones from oak-park?

2. I only saw half of one router show, so this question might be off-base.
Q. Is the show an advertisement for the oak-park system? or alternatively, is it possible to build one's own useful jigs following the show? If so, I intend on getting the DVDs from the site (seems a bargain at ~$20 for 4 DVDs?).
The resolution in the internet broadcast is too grainy for my mole-like eyes.

3. Does the oak-park folks send any discount coupons in the emails?
I sign up for it from one of the links in this site but haven't received any.

4. OFF-Topic (to moderator or person(s) that started this forum)
The application of whuffies (users' credit) in this site is interesting. Is there any info on why this is done and how useful it had been?

Thanks for your time.

 

[Hamlin]

Hello Frank and welcome to the router forums.
You can build any all of your jigs for the Oak Park table. As for featherboards, again, you can build your own. If you sign up through the oak park web site, you will receive notices on sales. You won't be dissappointed with the table. You may also wish to check out the project books that they've done.

 

[Mike]

Welcome Frank. Let me shoot you straight answers to your questions. 1. The Oak Park table top is a very nice way to start. Plans for the table frame and base cabinet are like $4 and it is easy to build. It is also well thought out. A nice removeable bit storage tray, room for clamps and wrenches under the tray. Horizontal featherboards may be clamped to the table top. All material is moved with a push stick or backer board so yes it is a safe method. This table design is very versatile, most any accessory can be used with it. Most Oak Park jigs are built with HDPE and once you have tried them you are amazed at how the wood glides along them. Simplicity of the design means easy to work with. Building your own jigs is great. The show will generate ideas for you to work from. 2. Oak Park sponsors the show, of course they hope you will purchase their products. The main purpose of the show is to teach a simple method for getting repeatable results. If you need to make too many measurements you are likely to make a mistake. By using jigs you eliminate the constant measuring and get consistant results. For example try setting your bit height to 1/4" above the table using a scale. A bit of squinting, checking to be sure your scale is even with the table surface... it's time consuming and easy to be off a bit. Using the brass set up bars means a light touch with a finger to check the adjustment and you are ready to go. (Always being sure to unplug the router) 3. There are monthly sales and at times special discounts available to subscribers. You just missed the great Fathers Day sale. Keep an eye out for future mailings. 4. Points were designed to allow members to get special titles and other goodies for their postings. It is still in the works to try applying this towards some sort of premium offer. There will be contests coming up in the near future with nice prizes for the winners. Ideas are always welcome, and again, thanks for joining!

 

[yfngoh]

Ken and Mike, thanks for the welcome and answers. I'll wait a few days or at least till after the 4th in case they have any sale soon. I'm now even more set on the oak-park system.

Mike, I agree with your points. A couple of followups:
1. Since the fence seems flat (i.e. squat and not tall), I dont see any place to hang a feather board on it. How is it done? or is it not ie. just pressure with a pair of push blocks?

2. On #4 i.e. the points, I'm thinking of the book: "Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom," by Cory Doctorow (free ebook, as well as also sold in stores as regular book). Google for author or whuffie.


I see the points here corresponding to the "whuffie" points in the future described by the book . They seem to be analogous to what the points are in this system ie. goodwill points. The idea is that in the future, when basic needs are satisfied, the economy then runs on "whuffie" points eg. u get the best seats for the folks with the most whuffie points.

I like this concept and think it has some merit and possible applications for certain commercial sites e.g. Amazon where recommendations are contrasted with the whuffie points of the recommenders. Personally I would trust a recommender with many whuffie points awarded by different users over the internet over that of an actor paid to do the advertisement etc.

 

[Mike]

Frank, what you have seen so far is the simplest fence the guys use. For the most part verticle featherboards are not required. Push pads and push sticks are used to keep the material where it belongs. That having been said, please realize that our members use many different router tables and fences. Some of us even have overhead routers, more commonly refered to as pin routers. The really nice thing about working with routers is there is often more than one solution to get the results you want. If you feel more comfortable using featherboards it is a simple matter to build your own fence design using the principles you see on the show. By the way, you can't always base your opinion by how many points are showing for a member. Many of us "banked" points. I think Ed (Reible) has around 5 million by now.

 

[reible]

Let me add my welcome!

I went the route of getting the table top and the base plate from oak-park and going the rest on my own for the table. I have a couple of jigs from them but to be honest they start getting very costly to buy... the jigs they use to make box joints and the miter gauge system are the ones I have and both very useful. Now my table top is the old one prior to then having added the holes for the box joint jig and the base plate is pre the new vacu-port design but if I had to buy one now I would opt for the vacu-port.

As far as finger boards from above... you can of course make your fence any way you like and if you want to make it taller and add mounting spots for finger boards that can be done. I don't ever recall seeing the router guys using finger boards that way?? I forgot the actual number of shows but I think it is around 180 and I have not seen all of them... maybe around half, so it could be I just haven't seen it.

Now as for the points:
"Welcome to the bank. You currently have 8280913568 points in the bank, last updated on Yesterday at 10:48 AM. You currently have 15382 points in your pocket." So far they have been fun to give away but that is about it.

Ed

 

[fibertech]

Welcome Frank from Dallas. You are in the right place. In addition to asking about particular products, make sure you check out Router Workshop on your local PBS station or at www.woodworkingchannel.com. Bob and Rick will show you so many different tips and tricks. Their Oak- Park products are the exact tools used. Your shop will really be a place you will want to spend a great deal of time in. -Derek

 

[Bob N]

Frank,

Welcome to the router forum.

I too have been looking at the Oak-Park table and have found a few things that I almost overlooked. Be sure you are aware that your brass inserts will need to come from Oak-Park as their router plate is not the "standard" size for the bit opening. Also be aware that if you need to go to a larger bit, like a 3 inch, you will need a 2nd router plate with the 3 inch opening and will need to re-mount your router back and forth between plates. The 3 inch opening plates do not appear to be available in the vaccu plates either. They do not offer a reducer insert ring for the 3 inch plate to allow it to be reduced to the 1 1/2 opening.

These are a couple of areas I am still looking at before making my final decision. I am hoping that if my information is incorrect, someone will jump in here and set me straight, but after intensive research on the Oak-Park site, this has been my findings thus far.

 

[Mark]

Welcome to the forums Frank!

 

[del schisler]

frank welcome: i also have the router top with the vac. ports wouldn't be with out it also the set up bar's and the fences i use the off set fence to do my glue up's it is the Jointer Fence it is 1/8" so it will give you a smooth edge of your board using the flush trim bit i use it all the time all the item's you get from the ROUTER WORK SHOP site cant be beat you can add some of your own idea's you wont be disapointed i also built the base also and the router base's that fit the router's you are going to use they fit and not messing around drilling to make them fit good luck del schisler

 

[reible]

Frank,

Welcome to the router forum.

I too have been looking at the Oak-Park table and have found a few things that I almost overlooked. Be sure you are aware that your brass inserts will need to come from Oak-Park as their router plate is not the "standard" size for the bit opening. Also be aware that if you need to go to a larger bit, like a 3 inch, you will need a 2nd router plate with the 3 inch opening and will need to re-mount your router back and forth between plates. The 3 inch opening plates do not appear to be available in the vaccu plates either. They do not offer a reducer insert ring for the 3 inch plate to allow it to be reduced to the 1 1/2 opening.

These are a couple of areas I am still looking at before making my final decision. I am hoping that if my information is incorrect, someone will jump in here and set me straight, but after intensive research on the Oak-Park site, this has been my findings thus far.

Some good points here....

I have several router tables so the center hole size is not an issue for me, in fact I have one of my 2.25 hp routers for the oak-park set-up and my 3.5 hp router in a different table all together (non-oak-park) for spinning the larger bits.

For guide bushings I went to lee valley, they have the basic ones (set of 7 includes 6 guides and 1 ring nut for $18.95 US. If you want the full set of 1/16" steps the only place I know that sells that is oak-park. Same for the reducers... lee valley. If you are having problems finding them at lee valley it is because they are labled 1-3/4 the major dia. of the bushing.

Ed

 

[bobj3]

Frank

Just a note about "finger boards" most new user of the router table are just a bit uptite about putting there hands down by the cutter.
Bob and Rick say it all the time if you get in a jam just pull the stock away from the bit and the finger boards will not let you do that easy.
The key is the push block(s) to hold the stock to the fence and down to the table.
And to keep your hands away from the cutters....(bits)
Most get a finger board at 1st and then they stop using them just like the table saw guard...some will not turn on the saw without them in place but most remove them.
The router table is like any power tool you have in the shop it must be used with care it's not a toy....
I will say the finger board has a place sometimes like when you are milling small stock (window panels/doors but then you make them longer and cut off what you need)) but it always best to mill wide stock and then cut off what you need.
I see Norm (of the NYWS) will use the finger board sometimes with a push stick but take a hard look at what is is doing and the look on his face.
He is Not to sure about the router table but I do see is getting smarter about using wider stock and then cut off what he needs.

Just my 2 cents
Bj

 

[yfngoh]

All, thanks for your replies. BTW, I heard back from Oak Park and they do have a sale for this weekend thru Tuesday (started already), up to 20% with combo of 10% sales (but not on all) and 10% discount code: 617348

BTW, here's a tip I came up with to use those super-magnets (neodymium): stick one of the 1/2 inch diameter magnets inside a metal clip
and you'll have an instant magnetic clip. These are useful for attaching to the Herman Miller walls in most offices/cubes. This is not possible with regular magnets as they're not strong enough. I got my neodymium magnet from a magnet specialy retailer on the web (more selections than a ww company)

 

[Bob N]

All, thanks for your replies. BTW, I heard back from Oak Park and they do have a sale for this weekend thru Tuesday (started already), up to 20% with combo of 10% sales (but not on all) and 10% discount code: 617348

BTW, here's a tip I came up with to use those super-magnets (neodymium): stick one of the 1/2 inch diameter magnets inside a metal clip
and you'll have an instant magnetic clip. These are useful for attaching to the Herman Miller walls in most offices/cubes. This is not possible with regular magnets as they're not strong enough. I got my neodymium magnet from a magnet specialy retailer on the web (more selections than a ww company)

Yep.... Just got my email on that sale also. Now I'm really going to have to work on my decision and stop fence sitting.

BTW.... Thanks Ed for the tip on the Lee Valley bushings, I'm going to check them out.

 

[yfngoh]

Bobj, thanks, I'll try without the featherboard on the router.

On using the tableSaw without bladeguard, I'd heard too many horror stories to not use one. Latest was a pal that had to learn to play music left-handed (somehow cut off some tendons in his right hand... and he's a heriloom-quality carpenter with >20 years expereince).

My solution to that (what overcame my biggest resistance to working with tablesaw):
1. taking a vocational ww class (unfortunately, the teacher doesn't believe in bladeguards so all the saws are without them).--- still, I learnt is to do things safely (think beforehand, and some general ww safety heuristics plus a whole bunch of stuff that only someone with experience can impart)

2. buying the safest saw I can afford (I'm waiting for the contractor's sawstop, so this is not final)... I lucked out a little and got the Ryobi BT3100 after reading their friendly users forum. Safety-wise, it features a sliding table for cross-cuts and the need to do x-cuts behind the blade (still need to do so for rip cuts, but for these I use feather boards and push sticks etc.)

3. I replaced the factory bladeguard with a sharkguard which overcame a lot of people's issues with bladeguards. It also has a riving knife, and that helps with preventing kick-back.

4. Most of all, I try to do the safest operation for the cut
e.g. routine crosscuts, mitre saw; else sliding table on ts.
tendon cuts on jig in sliding tablesaw
box cuts on jig in sliding tablesaw
cutting down panels to size with circular saw before using ts (with all outfeed support etc)
portable router for routing on big pieces e.g. rabbets

and now, with the router table I 'm getting, I'll migrate the box cuts to it.

5. Lastly, and some common sense. If I'm too tired, moody or the weather is too hot, I don't work in the shop. Good excuse to watch TV!

 

[bobj3]

Hi Frank

magnets,,,,I use them all the time in just about all the boxes I make,is the WW Company you are taking about the same as the one below ?.
If not you may want to check out his web site also
You can buy just 1 or 50,this guy will ship the next day.
I also use them in cabinets all the time,easy to hide and install,little glue in the hole tap the magnet in and your done,I use dowel centers to line them up in the cabinets.
Two of the 1/4" x 3/16" will hold the door closed and it's real hard to see ,they will take a stain/paint as well.

http://www.routerforums.com/showthread.php?t=2447&highlight=magnets

Magnets From:
K&J Magnetics - Products
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=10

Bj

 

[yfngoh]

Bj, yes, I bought from the dealer you mentioned, although next time, I might try this other vendor:
rare-earth-magnets
(sorry not in link form as I keep getting the "Could not find phrase 'x_contains_urls'." error.


I compared briefly and they seem to have better prices.

Last time, I bought a bunch of different sizes/shapes to experiment. I found that the most useful for woodworking are the disks. With the oak-park router table (that I just ordered!) I'm sure there's room for the magnets there somewhere. With these magnets , they're like solutions looking for problems.

Good tip on using a pair of the tiny sizes for the cabinets. I was thinking of singles with washers on the other end but then will need to bump up the size and also ugly.

Since my bench vice just arrived, I'm planning to insert the magnets for the removable wooden vice guards I need to build. Probably call for the 3/4 inches