Eric, the Grizzly T10432 router table will do everything you mentioned with no problems. By the time you add shipping it will set you back under $150. If you plan on using Marc's methods then his table is a good choice but a good deal more money. If you plan on building with dovetails and lots of mortise and tenon joinery there is another option you should know about: the Woodrat. The Woodrat will handle all the jobs you would do on a router table but it mounts on the wall. Check it out at woodrat.com to get a better idea of the differences.

Once you decide on the type of routing you prefer and choose a table or Woodrat will be the time to decide on the best router for your situation. Some are better choices for specific tables.

 

Large fan of making my own router tables myself.

 

If you can swing Marc's router table go for it,I have two of them ,they are great tables..

Amazon.com: CMT 999.500.02 Industrio Router Table System with Precision Fence, Phenolic Insert, Cabinet, Zero Clearance Inserts, Centering Tool and Insert Plate with 2 Aluminum Rings: Home Improvement

==

 

Hi Eric, welcome to the forum.

 

Thanks guys. I will be going over everyone's suggestions and doing research on everything. I am sure I'll be posting much more in the future once I start my projects. I have at least narrowed down which table saw I am going to purchase. The Bosch 4100 Jobsite Table Saw for $570.

Mike: I can swing one of Marc's tables as long as its worth the money. I do plan on doing dovetail for my drawers and such.

bobj3: I checked that one out earlier. Is it worth is getting it with the cabinet or should I just get one without it and mount it myself? What scared me was out of the 5 reviews 2 were 1 star. Thats why I came here to get hopefully a more honest opinion from people like yourselves. The $800 price tag does scare me though, when they had another version for half of that.

 

Not sure if youve looked at it, but I really like the Kreg table saw style fence.

Here's a full Kreg system: Amazon.com: Kreg PRS1040 Precision Router Table System: Home Improvement

The bad thing is that it doesn't have a lift in the system and I love having depth of cut adjustments at the work surface. If you want to build, just build a table - it's not too hard and you can build what will fit your needs.

Check out my router table build. 60" long workbench top with a 54" cabinet under it for storage. Cheaper and more functional than anything commercially available.

 

Welcome Eric to a fellow WNY'er, where are you located? To build a kitchen you don't need any fancy tools in fact you can do it with very few tools. Take a look at this "flipper" that I did.
Kitchen On A Budget | DoItYourself.com
It was done using a homemade router table, portable table saw and a pocket hole jig. As long as that cabinets you have fit the room that's all you need. In my case I didn't have any cabinets to speak of to start with.

 

Welcome Eric to a fellow WNY'er, where are you located? To build a kitchen you don't need any fancy tools in fact you can do it with very few tools. Take a look at this "flipper" that I did.

It was done using a homemade router table, portable table saw and a pocket hole jig. As long as that cabinets you have fit the room that's all you need. In my case I didn't have any cabinets to speak of to start with.

I'm located in Wellsville, about 40 minutes from Olean. I don't have a huge budget, thats why I am learning to do everything myself. However I had planned on spending a several thousand on a new kitchen, so if for the same money I can buy quality tools that will last me awhile, end up with a nice kitchen plus tools to build more down the line then its definitely in my budget, if that makes sense.

What really attracted me towards the table I was looking at was his how to video was great and easy to follow, I figured it would be easier to get the hang of it using the same tools, and jigs he was using. I actually bought a new plunge router a few years ago and it still sits in the box. I don't believe it's powerfull enough for a router table. Its been so long I can't remember the brand or its HP.

 

Welcome to the forum. There is a great group of people here.

I followed Sommerfeld's video on cabinet building when I remodeled our kitchen. It worked great. I used a Rockler table and a Craftsman router. His equipment if very good but you need pretty deep pockets. The melamine coating on my table took a beating near the insert plate and I replace it with a Kreg table this year.

Many people here have made their own. You should spend some time with the thread here where people display their tables. I'm not sure how to post a link (technologicly imparied).

Good luck.

 

Hi Eric, welcome to the forum. I admire you for taking on such a big job, it's people like you that motivate me to tackle things I normally wouldn't consider.

 

Well unfortunately I don't have much of a choice years ago I bought my first house and it was a lot worse than I thought. My fault for being young and jumping into a rash buying decision. I really don't have anyone who can show me how to do much of anything and growing frustrated with my situation I figured why not do it myself.

I am actually looking at possibly doing things like this on more of a professional level down the line depending on how well I do with each new trade I pick up. As long as you have a good head on your shoulders, with a little confidence and the right tools and know how you can do pretty much anything with some ambition. Growing up I always enjoyed building things and its just recently I've rediscovered that same joy I just lacked the confidence, which no longer is the problem.

I'll make sure sometime tonight I go through and check out everyone's suggestions.

 

Hi Eric, welcome to the Forum. Lots of help here! This is a long post...

I'll start with the table saw because I see that as most important for your kitchen project. I just bought the Laguna Fusion saw, which is 1400 bucks with tax. Rockler waived shipping and I picked it up at the store. It has a large table and is very precise. The 36 inch model was my choice for space considerations, but the 52 inch model isn't very much more. There are many hybrid saws out there that others recommend highly starting much less than that if you search threads for table saws you'll find their recommendations, including Grizzly and a couple of other brands. I don't have 220v, so the 1.75 hp 115v motor is the strongest available and I'm finding it cuts fine on 1 3/4 hard maple; its the blade, at least $60 for an 80 tooth very fine cut blade.

The size of the table is going to be important for cabinets as is the quality of the blade. I had a very well tuned Delta Contractor saw, but it really wasn't up to the task at just 1hp. I think a portable saw is not really large or precise enough to suit me, although the Bosch comes close.

Other roughly comparable table saws come in at $900 and up. The table saw is the core of any shop, so you'll likely have to live awhile with whatever you choose. Someone here said that when you compromise on a tool like this, you're likely to want to replace it once your skill level exceeds the capability of the machine. So true.

I think Mike's suggestion for router table is an excellent choice at about $130 as I recall. You can also buy a Bosch 1617EVSPK router kit with both fixed and plunge bases for about $229 (it was $200 recently on sale at Amazon). Its fixed base can be used as a lift so you can adjust height from above the table if you want. I really like the Bosch better than most other brands because of the precision height adjustment and the noticably high quality construction. I compared it with DeWalt and PorterCable and didn't like the height mechanism as well as the Bosch. Again, others have their preferences. Count a couple hundred more for bits. Door making sets are about $200. Buy individual bits rather than bit sets, most of which you'll never use. Depending on what joinery approach you take, you may need a rabbiting bit. Do buy bits with half inch shanks with carbide tips.

Bosch 1617 router kit: http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVS...ts/dp/B00005RHPD/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376490062&sr=8-1&keywords=Bosch+router

Making your own router table would be a good practice run for your kitchen cabinet project. That way you can buy a ready made top with mounting plate. A commercial aluminum fence isn't necessary, yet is nice. But you can build your own.

I personally like the Kreg pocket hole joinery setup which is $99 on Amazon Prime today. Add $25 for the Kreg KHC-RAC Right Angle Clamp and about $20 for the Kreg KHC-PREMIUM Face Clamp to hold your face frame joints together. Add another $25 for Kreg brand screws. It speeds up joinery and is amazingly strong. Here are links:

Pocket hole kit: http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-K4-Pocke...DYFISG/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1376489964&sr=8-6&keywords=kreg+pocket+hole+clamp
Pocket hole clamp: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...+clamp&sprefix=kreg+pocket+hole+clamp,aps,192&rh=i:aps,k:kreg+pocket+hole+clamp
Face clamp: http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-KHC-PREM...DC9UR8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1376489804&sr=8-4&keywords=kreg+pocket+hole+clamp

For molding you may be able to get along with a hand saw built for miter work. But for anything complicated, you will need at least a compound miter saw that lets you cut multiple angles at the same time. Doesn't necessarily have to be a slider, but they are nice to have. Add a couple hundred for a slider, $140 and up of that for a decent 10 inch chop style saw. Hitachi, Makita, DeWalt and several other brands are OK.

Don't expect anything to fit together precisely unless you carefully set blade angles exactly right, for that you MUST have a Wixey WR300 Digital Angle Gauge, the most important item in my whole shop. Changed the quality of my work overnight. $29 at Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR300-D.../B001PTGBRQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376486958&sr=8-1&keywords=wixey+angle+gauge

You'll be astonished at how much stuff you'll be buying as you go along. For example, you may want a jig for making dovetails, add lots of practice wood as you learn to use it. LOL

I know you'll get lots of other suggestions from the other very informed folks on the Forum, but this is strictly my point of view on what I'd use my money for given your situation. As happens to me, whatever I budget is seldom enough in the end. Fortunately, my wife is a quilter and despite a well equipped workshop, I haven't spent nearly as much on my tools as she has on sewing machines and her serger, so its pretty easy for me to sell her on just about anything I want. Just don't tell her I said that.

Just for fun, I'll add this up:
Table Saw 1,300 (800 and up depending on brand)
Router 220
Router table 300 Aprox w top and plate, home made fence, add $100 for commercial fence
Door bit set 300 plus rabbiting bit, molding bit, roundover bit
Kreg setup 175 kit, clamps, extra screws
Wixey 30
Miter saw 250 Optional item
---------------------------------------------
All option total 2,575
Low options 1,825 Cheapest table saw, no miter saw, no commercial router fence
Add tax and shipping. Buying though Amazon Prime could eliminate some shipping charges.

Well, that was interesting...Tom

 

Hi Eric, welcome to the Forum. Lots of help here! This is a long post...

I'll start with the table saw because I see that as most important for your kitchen project. I just bought the Laguna Fusion saw, which is 1400 bucks with tax. Rockler waived shipping and I picked it up at the store. It has a large table and is very precise. The 36 inch model was my choice for space considerations, but the 52 inch model isn't very much more. There are many hybrid saws out there that others recommend highly starting much less than that if you search threads for table saws you'll find their recommendations, including Grizzly and a couple of other brands. I don't have 220v, so the 1.75 hp 115v motor is the strongest available and I'm finding it cuts fine on 1 3/4 hard maple; its the blade, at least $60 for an 80 tooth very fine cut blade.

The size of the table is going to be important for cabinets as is the quality of the blade. I had a very well tuned Delta Contractor saw, but it really wasn't up to the task at just 1hp. I think a portable saw is not really large or precise enough to suit me, although the Bosch comes close.

Other roughly comparable table saws come in at $900 and up. The table saw is the core of any shop, so you'll likely have to live awhile with whatever you choose. Someone here said that when you compromise on a tool like this, you're likely to want to replace it once your skill level exceeds the capability of the machine. So true.

I think Mike's suggestion for router table is an excellent choice at about $130 as I recall. You can also buy a Bosch 1617EVSPK router kit with both fixed and plunge bases for about $229 (it was $200 recently on sale at Amazon). Its fixed base can be used as a lift so you can adjust height from above the table if you want. I really like the Bosch better than most other brands because of the precision height adjustment and the noticably high quality construction. I compared it with DeWalt and PorterCable and didn't like the height mechanism as well as the Bosch. Again, others have their preferences. Count a couple hundred more for bits. Door making sets are about $200. Buy individual bits rather than bit sets, most of which you'll never use. Depending on what joinery approach you take, you may need a rabbiting bit. Do buy bits with half inch shanks with carbide tips.

Bosch 1617 router kit:

Making your own router table would be a good practice run for your kitchen cabinet project. That way you can buy a ready made top with mounting plate. A commercial aluminum fence isn't necessary, yet is nice. But you can build your own.

I personally like the Kreg pocket hole joinery setup which is $99 on Amazon Prime today. Add $25 for the Kreg KHC-RAC Right Angle Clamp and about $20 for the Kreg KHC-PREMIUM Face Clamp to hold your face frame joints together. Add another $25 for Kreg brand screws. It speeds up joinery and is amazingly strong. Here are links:

Pocket hole kit:

For molding you may be able to get along with a hand saw built for miter work. But for anything complicated, you will need at least a compound miter saw that lets you cut multiple angles at the same time. Doesn't necessarily have to be a slider, but they are nice to have. Add a couple hundred for a slider, $140 and up of that for a decent 10 inch chop style saw. Hitachi, Makita, DeWalt and several other brands are OK.

Don't expect anything to fit together precisely unless you carefully set blade angles exactly right, for that you MUST have a Wixey WR300 Digital Angle Gauge, the most important item in my whole shop. Changed the quality of my work overnight. $29 at Amazon.

You'll be astonished at how much stuff you'll be buying as you go along. For example, you may want a jig for making dovetails, add lots of practice wood as you learn to use it. LOL

I know you'll get lots of other suggestions from the other very informed folks on the Forum, but this is strictly my point of view on what I'd use my money for given your situation. As happens to me, whatever I budget is seldom enough in the end. Fortunately, my wife is a quilter and despite a well equipped workshop, I haven't spent nearly as much on my tools as she has on sewing machines and her serger, so its pretty easy for me to sell her on just about anything I want. Just don't tell her I said that.

Just for fun, I'll add this up:
Table Saw 1,300 (800 and up depending on brand)
Router 220
Router table 300 Aprox w top and plate, home made fence, add $100 for commercial fence
Door bit set 300 plus rabbiting bit, molding bit, roundover bit
Kreg setup 175 kit, clamps, extra screws
Wixey 30
Miter saw 250 Optional item
---------------------------------------------
All option total 2,575
Low options 1,825 Cheapest table saw, no miter saw, no commercial router fence
Add tax and shipping. Buying though Amazon Prime could eliminate some shipping charges.

Well, that was interesting...Tom

That was quite the post. I learned quickly just looking at all the jigs/bits that the extras would quickly add up. I had already checked out what miter saw I wanted because I wanted a better one than what I already own when I start siding. And go figure the Bosch Sliding Compound Miter 2x Beveled 12 Inch (Around $600 new online) was the one I was going to get. I'm trying to take my time to find the best deals for new machines online so I don't end up paying full retail for the tools. I don't think $1300 on a table saw would really be in my budget. Unless its absolutely needed. Would the one I wanted (Bosch 4100) not be good enough for cabinet work? I'm definitely not a wealthy man but I don't want to sacrifice too much when it comes to how well of a quality job my tools do. I was with patience and looking around online for deals I could keep my budget in the $2000 range.

 

Eric, you can find lots of good deals online for used equipment. A Craftsman contractors saw with a cast iron table will run forever if it is kept properly adjusted. Follow some of the tips posted on the forums and a used saw can be a great deal.

My favorite router is still the Bosch 1617.

 

Eric, you can find lots of good deals online for used equipment. A Craftsman contractors saw with a cast iron table will run forever if it is kept properly adjusted.

Just don't buy one of the flex shaft drive models!

 

Sorry for the delay in getting your posts approved, we will be adding some new moderators soon to help with this. You can go to the show and tell section and comment on what you see there to speed up the first 10 posts. It is a small price to pay for a site that is usually spam free.

 

Its fine with me, no major rush. I just missed the message when I first posted here and was confused when I didn't see it posted. I'm all for keeping out the spammers on any forum.

 

Sorry Mike

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the system, such as it is, just thought the site wasn't working as I'd thanked a couple of guys for their help, yet the message had not appeared.

I do understand the necessity.

 

great,i like it!

 

Eric; great thread. Welcome, by the way!
On the sliding compound mitre saw item, why do you need a 12" rather than a 10"?
(Bosch is a great saw; I have an older 10" SCMS of theirs)

Everything about the 12" is 'more'...cost, weight, space, and the price of the blades. For cabinet work, you won't need the extra capacity.

 

I'd rather spend the extra cash now, even though I don't need the larger saw, than to regret it later when I am doing something where I might need the larger saw. I won't just be using it for cabinetry. When its all said and done I'll basically be using it for almost everything you can imagine when building a house. Especially if later down the line I decide to take on jobs.

 

In 35 years of doing renos, Eric, I can't honestly say that I've ever needed the larger saw (12"), but to each their own, eh!
One reason for owning a 12" is for doing large crown mouldings. It'll also cut through a rough 4X4 in one pass; nice if you're doing timber construction.

 

+1...

I wore out two 12"' SCMS'es (Makita and Dewalt) working as a finish carpenter before downgrading back to a 10" SCMS and have never really missed it.

 

How about decking? How does the 10 hold up cutting 4x4s and 4x6s. The only thing that worries me with buying a 12 is I am worried that having a larger blade might mean cuts that wander a bit. Me personally as long as a 12 will do the same job as a 10 quality wise in molding and cabinetry I'd rather have it just in case I do need it. I guess though unless you're cutting some larger lumber it is overkill. However I'd rather have too much tool than not enough. Again as long as it does the same quality cut for molding/trim work. If it doesn't than I have something to think about. I do have a 10 inch Miter I use for just framing so its not like I'd be using the 12 for every little job.

 

Hi Eric, Igol here from Canada. Good for you, taking on this project. As far as a router table, like most, I prefer to build my own. I cheated, by buying New Yankee workshop plans for $10, but they were accurate and easy for anyone to follow. You will enjoy this table if you build it, has plenty of storage, a fence, and dust collection as well, if and when you install a dust collection system, a must in my shop, saves the cleanup task. I purchased a Leigh dove tail maker, however there are cheaper units that do just a good a job. If you have time, and in no hurry, dovetails are easily cut by hand. Cabinets are basic boxes (usually Plywood, cabinet grade) with your choice of wood on the front. There are plenty of books and videos on line to help you with construction. Once you get the hang of it, you will amaze yourself, believe me. Good Luck.

 

On the miter saw item: I just sold my 12 inch DeWalt miter. Replacement is a 10 inch Bosch sliding miter, which is amazingly precise. The front mounted control and lock for miter angle and cut angle is very much more convenient than the rear mounted locks. I used the 12 inch originally for construction projects, but I always had a slight cutting angle error I could not get rid of despite very careful setup. Could just be blade deflection on that big blade. The Dewalt was belt drive, so it gave another inch or so of cutting depth than direct drive, so the blade support was minimal. I don't miss the 12 inch. If space were a problem and I insisted on a 12 inch, I'd check out the new Bosch 12 inch glide miter saw. But that means buying two sizes of non interchangeable blades (10 inch table saw). Just my thoughts on this.

 

Thanks for the advice guys sorry for the late response been really busy trying to get as many projects done as I can before I finally get a well earned vacation in a few days. Replaced my old jet pump and tank, after that had to rip open my ceiling downstairs to get to plumbing in the upstairs bathroom and had to redo all of that. They had both the sink and tub wastelines running uphill, and one of the joints they forgot to glue. Needless to say having pipes 80% jammed with sludge shot in my face wasn't the most pleasing days I've had this summer. With all this talk about the 12 inch miter cutting at an angle it really has me worried. Does anyone have and use a Bosch 12 inch sliding miter? If so does it have the same issues as some of the other brands?

 

Eric; is this the puppy you're talking about?
Bosch GCM12SD, 12" Dual-Bevel Glide Mitre Saw - GCM12SD BlackRock Tools
Make sure you get a sealed box. If it's been opened it's probably got drool all over it!

If not that one, then my original comments stand.
If that one, can I come over and use it...please? Heh...

 

Yes thats the one. but if I can;t find anyone that actually uses it for making cabinets I am most likely going with the 10 inch now. I don't want to risk blade flex and having slightly off cuts. It won't be until sometime next year before I get the tools. If its a couple hundred bucks cheaper, a little drool won't bother me.

 

Given the work involved and the cost of materials I would not start with a contractor's table saw. Buy a saw that will allow you to do excellent work on the cabinets. Cheaper saws will cut but not to the precision you need to do a really professional looking job. Also buy the best saw blades you can find - they are well worth the money. It's false economy buying cheap and having to re-cut because of chips and otherwise bad cuts.

 

I am set on the Bosch table saw. Not sure if it classifies as good enough to do a professional looking job but its what I am going to get. I already understand without a quality blade it doesn't matter what table saw you're using.

 

Hi Eric, just found this string again. On table saw, I had the same budget amount and did a huge amount of research on which was best for the money. I wound up with the Laguna 10 inch saw. It is $1,300 U.S. for the 36 inch model and just another $100 for the 52 inch model. Picture attached, I hope. I don't have 220 available, althoug you can get it in a 220 model. It replaced a pretty good but underpowered contractor saw. It is a hybrid saw, so it is more of a cabinet saw with a hefty table and it has enough power to cut 1.8 inch thick maple. A few weeks after buying this, PowerMatic offered its new saw, so I'd have considered that one as well. The Laguna fence is top notch too. I considered the SawStop, which was way out of my price range without going into debt for it, but if you work on wood with much moisture content, you have to turn off the safety device and if you happen to forget (forget what?) oh yes, to turn it off and cut wet wood, BANG, there goes about $130-$150 bucks. And you have to buy a separate system for a dado stack. The Laguna (and as far as I can tell, the PowerMatic) have decent safety features to keep your fingers attached as long as you use push sticks or a GrRipper and think before you do a cut. The 52 inch model has a few extra features, but is almost 8 feet wide! It is probably just a bit better for cabinetry work. I'm pretty happy with my purchase. I buy mostly from Rockler and they went out of their way to get it to me. My original Delta contractor table saw was just about perfectly tuned up, but the small table was just too limiting. I gave the old saw away to my son in law, so it will get some good use. Can't seem to figure out how to post the picture.

 

Got back from vacation and I got a chance to think things over. And I am pretty tempted to look into taking on general contracting jobs next year. Along with the projects I still have to tackle around here (siding/tiling bathroom/putting in shower stall/building kitchen cabinets,ect) I am going to need these tools. I think I am going to be purchasing these.......
Bosch 10 Inch 4100-09 Table Saw with Stand (Might get the Rigid however) Estimated Cost $570
Bosch Tile/Wet Saw TC-10 $730
Bosch Compound Sliding Miter Saw 10 Inch $529 (Really want the 12inch for cutting molding and to do decking but I think you guys talked me out of it because of the deflection issue for building cabinets).

and if I get enough work I am going to bite the bullet and go for quality and invest in either a
Sawstop Cabinet Saw $2600
Powermatic 2000 Cabinet Saw $3000
and the original routing table I mentioned before.

I was tempted to go with the Ridgid 4512 Hybrid for only $540 but would hate for that not to be good enough to do quality cabinet work and have to end up buying one of the top of the line models down the line. It would be a huge investment but it just seems like something I enjoy doing.