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On May 3, 2012 I submitted a new thread entitled "Shaving Horse Advice Needed...". I got several helpful responses (Thank You) and kept the idea "on a back burner" until now. I have done quite a bit of research on this subject and felt that I was ready to proceed with construction of my design. I had plenty of materials on-hand and hoped to be able to use drops and leftovers for most of the build.

I found quite a bit of info and recommendations on how to build a shaving horse using Google and "Images". Never did I find information on how to determine an ideal length versus my height and reach with arms and legs. Then, I also noticed a lack of height information. As I pondered these things, it became apparent that I should probably make a "BETA" version - with plans to make it intentionally too long and too tall. This line of thought led me to realize that this scenario would bring with it another logistical problem which was how to determine swing dimensions and preferential angles for the lever and workpiece holding device (this is all one assembly).

Also, I needed to make something that could be stored indoors - yet did not pose a storage problem or a trip-hazard. I don't have any projects that I need this for, but I just wanted to have and use one for my own satisfaction. A couple of days ago, it dawned on me that I really didn't need something that I will sit on, and I have a fair amount of workbench space available. My workbenches are built-ins: 1 is 16'-0" long and then there are 2- that are 6'-0" long. All are at the same height - which also coincides with the working surfaces of several of my power tools. The workbenches are all topped with 3/4" exterior grade plywood - nothing pretty - simply a surface to work on. When too many holes appear, these tops are simply taken-up by removing the countersunk screws and new tops go in the old places (not rocket science)!

My 16'-0" long workbench is 32" in uniform width (front-to-back), while the other workbenches are 24" in uniform width. There are always ongoing projects - and we are quite good at cleaning-up scattered tools, etc. after projects are complete.

I decided to make a "Shaving Pony" - which is simply my name for a benchtop design that does what I need - without hogging a lot of shop space. In the attached photos, you can see that I've provided a U-bolt as a handle - so this gizmo can be easily wall-hung for out-of-the-way storage.

I tried to make this with a minimum of parts and at a weight that could be easily moved. There are 2- 2x10's that are (base plate) 24" and (sloping plate) 28" long. Both of these parts were ripped to 8.25" width. Attached to the underside of the base plate are 2- "feet" - each is 2" x 2" x 12.25" - 1 at each end - under the base plate. Connecting the base and sloping plates are 3- "ramps". Each ramp slopes at a 6* angle and these are equally spaced to provide support. Screws and glue were utilized with screws going through oversized holes in the oak to prevent splitting.

Additional to the parts described above which comprise the main wedge, there are 2- more wooden parts. These parts are designed to work in parallel unison to catch springs which serve to hold-down the workpiece. Tension on the springs is increased as the parallel parts become increasingly further apart. I used U-bolts in the bottom piece - which holds the lower ends of the springs - this part is 1.125" x 2.625" x 12.25" with the U-bolts 10" apart. The top piece utilizes Eye-bolts and measures 1.5" x 2" x 12.25" and again, the bolts are 10" apart.

In one of the photos you can see the underside of the base plate. 9- small screws are carefully aligned in 3- rows - the serve as "speed bumps" to retain the lower spring catcher in one of 4- locations. This is why the lower spring catcher is narrower (depth in application) than the "feet". It can literally be "hopped" to other positions quite easily. These springs are quite strong - and according to my scales, it takes about 65 pounds to "stretch the springs" just even a small amount.

In 3- of the photos you will see a "pretend workpiece" being pinched into a workable position. These are sandwiched with nothing, one non-slip pad and two non-slip pads.
I used longer (than one might expect) Eye-bolts in the top spring catcher - I am expecting to add another bridge board to insert a fulcrum to reduce tension for insertion of thicker workpieces.

With the dimensions I used, this device can be placed in quite a few different locations within my shop - including atop of my table saw. A couple of C-clamps make this gizmo be very tenacious wherever it is located. I hope this proves helpful and please keep-in-mind that nothing here has to be the dimensions that I used - it is simply what will work for me! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Couple more photos...

This project did not come to what I consider full completion last night, but rather only came to a point where I could begin the thread. One additional item, which I plan to attach atop of the top spring holder will be the lever-receiver (catchy name - huh?); this explains why I used longer than initially obvious Eye-bolts. Using a bar as a lever, I expect to occasionally need to further stretch the springs for future workpieces.

One of the photos attached herein shows an underside view (taken while weighing the gizmo) that clearly shows how the lower spring receiver benefits from the "speed bumps" along the underside of the base plate.

This thing was kept simple and light in weight. See the photo below. 21 pounds includes a "mock-up" workpiece - so this can be easily wall-mounted in my shop.

I hope that if any of you out there have been contemplating a "Shaving Horse" that these ideas may open some new possibilities for you to make your own version of the "Shaving Pony". I expect this to be an item that only sees occasional use, but serves a niche function quite economically while taking a minimum of shop space!

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia
 

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That could be handy for those of us who still use spokeshaves and draw knives from time to time. I gather the springs are to replace the foot treadle?
 

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Definitely a bit different, but should do the job well. Why buy stuff, when you can make it?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Thanks guys for the kind comments. Molly (our Boston Terrier) and I walk about one mile each morning. A couple years ago, a neighbor had discarded a trampoline along with about 30-40 of those springs. About a dozen of the springs were rusty and I recycled them, but most were in pristine condition. The base plate and sloping plate are made from SYP 2x10's (leftovers from a project) and the oak was recycled from large wooden pallets. I don't go around looking through trash, but I do from time-to-time see some very useful stuff that my neighbors are recycling.

Charles, Yes! Those springs keep me from needing a foot-operated treadle. (At least that's my plan)

This afternoon, I am going to build the "wall mounted holder" when I can catch a few free minutes. That 21 pound weight will easily hang on my T111 paneled basement walls.

Otis
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Gizmo Hanger in Place...

Well, as promised I made an extremely simple holder for the "Shaving Pony". As you will see, this photo will not be submitted for any photography contest! Enjoy.

Otis
 

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Otis
I will bite and show my ignorance. :help: What’s it for? To hold pieces you are working like a vice?
 

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Otis
I will bite and show my ignorance. :help: What’s it for? To hold pieces you are working like a vice?

Just kidding! LOL

Nice job Otis!
 

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This looks like a complete waste of time to me, I hope there isn't a patent for this kind of thing that you are stealing from. Did you check.
 

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This looks like a complete waste of time to me, I hope there isn't a patent for this kind of thing that you are stealing from. Did you check.
Then I guess it's a good thing this is a router forum instead of a fine woodworking forum for you blurting out that...

It's just a type of vise quickly to help hold wooden workpieces (without damaging the workpiece) when using a spokeshave (or other tools) , therefore holding work... but pulling the tool towards you.. The bigger version includes the whole thing, including a seat where the user sits and applies manual pressure to the vise, pressing a fulcrum with is legs.

Patent? Since it is a traditional design, over a thousand years old (I believe the design is over 1500 years old, as far as I know), I believe the patent has gone public domain. No risk of patents applying. LOL. A traditional woodworking tool. It was very popular in it's time.

I believe in expressing ideas and opinions. I feel a little embarrassed for you, that your comment would be... (Background thoughts-- I don't want to say ignorant. Maybe uneducated? Not-diplomatic? No, I have the word --> ) a little narrow? Well, I thought a little education and explanation might show that a tool is a tool. All people have their point of views. I just try to be remain open to learn more and to ways of others. I've worked with wood all my life, but I learn something new every day.

Not your fault. There is just too much out there for anyone to know all things about everything. When I was an apprentice carpenter many years ago, I was taught hand tools and hand tooling... Then power tools and woodworking machinery. When I was a Master Carpenter and taught my apprentices, I continued that tradition. But others did not. Society parallels. They thought that it was not pertinent to what is now. I feel it just gives a wider skillset foundation and opens possibilities of the "how" of how something could be done, if the need arises.

You may think that "Weird" looking... I imagine a lot of people here would think the same of some of my blacksmithing vises.

Just a perspective...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This looks like a complete waste of time to me, I hope there isn't a patent for this kind of thing that you are stealing from. Did you check.
Chris, I guess that I deserve that comment from you considering my comments on your "Rip-Snorter" copy of a high-quality properly-marketed product (GRRR ripper). You're over there and I am over here. In the US, we have a Patent and Trademark Office. And yes, there was no such "animal" in the USPTO. Shaving Horses date back in time to when wooden wheels were the norm - even back to when wooden wheels would have been considered "state of the art". Making the spokes for said wheels required tools such as drawknives and spokeshaves - which are considered old-fashioned by many, nowadays. You may wish to have a look at shaving horses, drawknives or spokeshaves on Google or on YouTube - it is quite interesting.

Mike (in post #12) mentioned something that is key to me when I am teaching friends, family, employees or coworkers: It is helpful to learn how things were done in primitive ways to fully appreciate how those same jobs are done now in more modern times. I began drafting using thumb tacks (as corner hold-downs), linen for the media, etc. We "graduated" from pencil to ink and our medias evolved to vellum and mylar. We all used plastic triangles 30,60,90 and 45,45,90. I remember when electric erasers were "state of the art" and the company would only "invest" in these for tenured drafters. Now (ever since 1988) I utilize AutoCAD software for my drafting. In 2001, I personally took a tremendous interest in 3d drafting and since that time I use it daily and have become quite proficient using it. My point is that drafting practices (2d) have the same goals whether produced manually or via computer software.

Likewise Chris, there are numerous routes to achieve a finished product. Be it very old-fashioned or the most high-tech methodologies known to man - the same finished product can be achieved with old or new techniques.

As Mike has mentioned, the Shaving Horse has become public domain and therefore; no infringements have occurred herein. As I offered above, I did check and there is no such thing in the works of the USPTO. Thank you for your comments. I deserved those.

Now, since you have chosen to refer to the antecedant subject that made you angry with me in the first place; please be mindful that here in the US - it is considered by inventors and product developers to be highly UNETHICAL to promote ways for someone to avoid buying the "real thing" but to rather encourage others to do the same (copy). In the case of the Rip-Snorter, I felt that you did this and I voiced my opinion. ALSO, YOUR COPY WAS MADE WITH POOR WORKMANSHIP AS WAS CLEARLY ILLUSTRATED IN YOUR PHOTOS. When we're dealing with a Safety Item, I (and hundreds of others) have a strong preference to use a method and/or product that has a "track record".

I am simply afraid to give advice that I am uncertain of. Having done Structural Engineering up until my retirement in 2001, I have had the burden of working with public safety in mind. Engineering brings with it a collective set of checks and balances. Chris, what you did was not a "first"; nor was it a "last". It is, however; considered UNETHICAL.

Now, for a little "check up from the neck up". Let's say you invented something that was really cool and you worked diligently to design, research, protect, manufacture and market this product. You should never share with friends, relatives, etc. your idea or it could be copied and stolen. This is not to say that I did wrong in showing my appliance, "the shaving pony" - it was my attempt at being helpful to the Router Forum members and readers. Nobody would buy that silly-thing, it was intended for me to use! I wanted to make a space-saving similar device that would fit atop of my workbenches and allow me on occasion to use some of the old tools that I inherited - which formerly were my Great Grand Father's tools. I also utilized extension springs in lieu of the "leg pressure treadle", which for me is handy. It also clamps in numerous places in my workshop and I will also be able to take it on camping trips, where me and several of my fellow (cliff-diving) buddies plan to make cool walking sticks.

Patents in the US are valid for 17-20 years for an apparatus - so when something that was in use hundreds of years ago gets copied by a guy like me, he or she can fly a banner on the subject behind a small airplane if so chosen.

Chris, I hope this answers your questions succinctly and clearly, and I am also glad to see you back on the Router Forums.

PS I, along with my partners have been granted 58- US Patents.

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia
 

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Hey Mr. Mike, You will be glad to know that the new business is now in its early stages. My brother and I will be partners along with the machinist that I have spoken on the phone to you about. We're "one week in" and so far so good. The three of us have been tossing around a lot of ideas and we're already having prototypes being made (the machinist is making the metallic and transmission parts, and I am making the wooden parts. It looks like the things you and I spoke about are going to work flawlessly with the drive hubs as a separate unit, yet positively connected. Sheila is getting her "ducks in a row" for you to be in charge of demonstrative sales! Yippee!

"Tater head"
 

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You may think that "Weird" looking... I imagine a lot of people here would think the same of some of my blacksmithing vises.
Have y'all ever noticed that many of the best fishing lures look "Weird", but do their work perfectly? I will always believe that many pieces of fishing equipment are designed to "catch the consumer" rather than the fish.
 

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Then I guess it's a good thing this is a router forum instead of a fine woodworking forum for you blurting out that...

It's just a type of vise quickly to help hold wooden workpieces (without damaging the workpiece) when using a spokeshave (or other tools) , therefore holding work... but pulling the tool towards you.. The bigger version includes the whole thing, including a seat where the user sits and applies manual pressure to the vise, pressing a fulcrum with is legs.

Patent? Since it is a traditional design, over a thousand years old (I believe the design is over 1500 years old, as far as I know), I believe the patent has gone public domain. No risk of patents applying. LOL. A traditional woodworking tool. It was very popular in it's time.

I believe in expressing ideas and opinions. I feel a little embarrassed for you, that your comment would be... (Background thoughts-- I don't want to say ignorant. Maybe uneducated? Not-diplomatic? No, I have the word --> ) a little narrow? Well, I thought a little education and explanation might show that a tool is a tool. All people have their point of views. I just try to be remain open to learn more and to ways of others. I've worked with wood all my life, but I learn something new every day.

Not your fault. There is just too much out there for anyone to know all things about everything. When I was an apprentice carpenter many years ago, I was taught hand tools and hand tooling... Then power tools and woodworking machinery. When I was a Master Carpenter and taught my apprentices, I continued that tradition. But others did not. Society parallels. They thought that it was not pertinent to what is now. I feel it just gives a wider skillset foundation and opens possibilities of the "how" of how something could be done, if the need arises.

You may think that "Weird" looking... I imagine a lot of people here would think the same of some of my blacksmithing vises.

Just a perspective...
you dont have to tell me your whole life story
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Chris, I do not know what you're attempting to do here, but I'm starting to get the idea that you are attempting to be counterproductive. Go back, if you will sir; and review your original post. I apologized for making you feel low. Both Mike and I were simply adding clarification to what I originally said which offended you. I also made a big apology on that aforereferenced thread which you began. Mike and I are about to become co-workers, I chose Mike for many of his unique qualifications. One of his quality attributes is articulation.

Everyone: You, Mike, Me and every person in the world has uniqueness and can potentially bring something helpful to a discussion. I am an inventor, Mike is a genius on machinery, he and I have learned that we can each work together in a coordinated effort to reach a common goal. We are both what most would consider "keenly observant".

You, Chris are quite likely very good at something! Somewhere deep inside of you is some helpful knowledge on some subject that I am yet to uncover.

Often when someone is aggressive from far away - it tells me that person would probably not be as aggressive in an in-person eye-to-eye confrontation. Here in Atlanta, we have some terrible traffic jams, and quite often one can encounter someone exhibiting indicators of "road rage". I have had a few occasions where someone would be mad at me because I may have been polite to someone else [in traffic]. Several times, I have taken the opportunity to have roadside discussions concerning their behavior, and interestingly; they quickly forget their anger. I am not a huge guy, nor do I have an intimidating appearance, but some people have discovered that I am kinda like a cat - who runs from dogs until cornered. The cat warns said dog, but said aggressor further pursues the cat. Most of the time, the dog learns a valuable lesson; and like "road ragers" I have met - becomes really nice and non-aggressive.

I know nothing about you, but I would rather that we do not "show our butts" to 70,000 members.

WARNING: If you continue this aggressive behavior, I will feel forced to explain to the audience something else I have observed! After that, you will most likely choose to quit the forum or at the very least, re-enlist under another name.

It would be much better if we could become friends,
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia USA
 

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Chris, I do not know what you're attempting to do here, but I'm starting to get the idea that you are attempting to be counterproductive. Go back, if you will sir; and review your original post. I apologized for making you feel low. Both Mike and I were simply adding clarification to what I originally said which offended you. I also made a big apology on that aforereferenced thread which you began. Mike and I are about to become co-workers, I chose Mike for many of his unique qualifications. One of his quality attributes is articulation.

Everyone: You, Mike, Me and every person in the world has uniqueness and can potentially bring something helpful to a discussion. I am an inventor, Mike is a genius on machinery, he and I have learned that we can each work together in a coordinated effort to reach a common goal. We are both what most would consider "keenly observant".

You, Chris are quite likely very good at something! Somewhere deep inside of you is some helpful knowledge on some subject that I am yet to uncover.

Often when someone is aggressive from far away - it tells me that person would probably not be as aggressive in an in-person eye-to-eye confrontation. Here in Atlanta, we have some terrible traffic jams, and quite often one can encounter someone exhibiting indicators of "road rage". I have had a few occasions where someone would be mad at me because I may have been polite to someone else [in traffic]. Several times, I have taken the opportunity to have roadside discussions concerning their behavior, and interestingly; they quickly forget their anger. I am not a huge guy, nor do I have an intimidating appearance, but some people have discovered that I am kinda like a cat - who runs from dogs until cornered. The cat warns said dog, but said aggressor further pursues the cat. Most of the time, the dog learns a valuable lesson; and like "road ragers" I have met - becomes really nice and non-aggressive.

I know nothing about you, but I would rather that we do not "show our butts" to 70,000 members.

WARNING: If you continue this aggressive behavior, I will feel forced to explain to the audience something else I have observed! After that, you will most likely choose to quit the forum or at the very least, re-enlist under another name.

It would be much better if we could become friends,
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia USA


otis,
yeah i do suppose this is getting a bit silly back and forth here, i suppose ive had a bee in my bonnet for the last week or so.
apoligis for the last few replies, but i think you struck a nerve with me last week.

anyway, lets get back to the woodworking.

cheers,

chris.....
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you Chris, I am also very sensitive about the subject that got this dispute started in the first place. I am glad we can interact on a friendly basis, and again; I apologize for the "stink"!

What is your typical type of WW project? I am a prototype builder, but have done lots of types of WW over the years.

Take care,
Otis
 
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