[Barry747]

I have a question about finishing that I’m hoping someone can help me with. I live in Florida and I’m going to make a small live edge bench that will live outside by our front door. The area does not get much sun and is somewhat sheltered from the rain but, this is Florida. The wood that I purchased, according to the guy who sold it to me, is called Samae. I never heard of it, and can’t find much about it on the Internet so I may have gotten the name wrong but, anyway, it is a tropical/subtropical hardwood. The salesman, who was very knowledgeable suggested that I finish the bench with either Tung Oil or Teak Oil. He said he uses whatever is cheapest and cuts it with Mineral Spirits for faster drying especially in our humid climate. He re-oils when the piece appears to be drying out.

I normally use poly on my indoor projects and the only oil finish I’ve ever used is Watco Danish Oil. I’ve done some research on the Internet and I’m a bit confused about what I should use. About the only things I’ve learned is that Teak Oil has UV protection, so that’s a plus, and that Teak Oil and Teak Oil Finish are different. One last thing, I’d prefer a satin finish. If that can’t be done with oils (I really don’t know) I could live with semi-gloss, not gloss.

Can anyone suggest the best finish to use for this outdoor bench?

As always, I appreciate your help.

 

[Stick486]

I believe this is what you have...

Monkeypod (Samanea saman)

Common Name(s): Monkeypod, Monkey Pod, Raintree
Scientific Name: Albizia saman (syn. Samanea saman, Pithecellobium saman)
Distribution: Central and South America (Also planted/naturalized in many tropical regions of the world)
Tree Size: 100-125 ft (30-38 m) tall, 3-4 ft (1-1.2 m) trunk diameter
Average Dried Weight: 38 lbs/ft3 (600 kg/m3)
Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .48, .60
Janka Hardness: 900 lbf (4,010 N)
Modulus of Rupture: 9,530 lbf/in2 (65.7 MPa)
Elastic Modulus: 1,149,000 lbf/in2 (7.92 GPa)
Crushing Strength: 5,790 lbf/in2 (39.9 MPa)
Shrinkage: Radial: 2.0%, Tangential: 3.4%, Volumetric: 6.0%, T/R Ratio: 1.7

Color/Appearance: Color tends to be a golden to dark brown, sometimes with darker streaks. Sapwood is usually thin and yellow/white, clearly demarcated from the heartwood. Monkeypod is sometimes seen with highly figured curly or wild grain patterns.
Grain/Texture: Grain is usually straight, but can also be interlocked or wavy. Texture is medium to coarse, with medium to large open pores and a moderate natural luster.
Endgrain: Diffuse-porous; large to very large pores in no specific arrangement, very few to few; solitary and radial multiples of 2-3; heartwood deposits occasionally present; narrow rays usually not visible without lens, normal spacing; parenchyma vasicentric, lozenge, and confluent.
Rot Resistance: Rated as durable to very durable regarding decay resistance, Monkeypod is also resistant to most insect attacks.
Workability: Monkeypod is generally easy to work with both hand and machine tools, though any interlocked grain may result in fuzzy or torn grain during planing operations. Glues and finishes well.
Odor: No characteristic odor.
Allergies/Toxicity: Although severe reactions are quite uncommon, Monkeypod wood dust has been reported as an eye irritant. See the articles Wood Allergies and Toxicity and Wood Dust Safety for more information.
Pricing/Availability: Available as lumber, as well as craft wood in smaller sizes. Prices are in the mid to high range for imported wood. Monkeypod usually trends a little bit cheaper in price than Koa, all other things being equal. Boards with figured grain patterns are much more expensive.
Sustainability: This wood species is not listed in the CITES Appendices or on the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species.
Common Uses: Veneer, plywood, millwork/trim, carving, cabinetry, furniture, musical instruments (guitars and ukuleles), and other small specialty wood items.
Comments: So named for the spiral-shaped fruit pods which the tree bears. Outside of Hawaii, one of the most common names for the species is Raintree, which is due to the leaves’ tendency to fold up at night or during periods of rainfall, allowing rain to pass through its broad canopy to the vegetation below. Trees are commonly planted in tropical regions as an ornamental shrub or shade tree.
Monkeypod is called by many different names in many different cultures, and its lumber is likewise used for a number of different purposes depending on the locale, ranging from utility wood and construction purposes to fine furniture.
Related Species: None available.

 

[Barry747]

Stick, I think you nailed it (pun intended). The sapwood is a dull white with streaks of black that give it a slightly grayish look. Very similar to pictures that I pulled up on the web. Thanks. The salesman said the sapwood would lighten up once it was sanded. Any suggestions on how to finish it?

I've decided to make the bench like a waterfall table that I've seen since the grain and live edge will look nice flowing around the edges. Since the sides will be attached at 45 degrees I'll reinforce the joint with either biscuits or a hidden spline. Because it will sit outside, I'll put something on the bottom of the sides so they won't sit in water after a storm. For hurricanes we'll take the bench inside.

Now my challenge will be how to make the 45 degree cuts across the board. I don't have a miter saw, although I've been thinking of getting one. Because of the curve and the width of the board it might be too wide for a miter saw. The board is being delivered later this week, unfortunately I don't have a truck, so once it arrives and I lay out where the cuts will go I'll see if a miter saw could make the cuts. If so, I'll spring for one. If not, it's plan "B" which would be to make a 90 degree cut with a circular saw then make the 45's on the table saw. I'll probably loose a bit of the grain continuity but it should be close enough for an outside piece.

 

[Stick486]

finishing ... I don't go there...
just the same I'd oil it so that it would be easily repairable... look to Sikkens...
https://www.perfectwoodstains.com/products/deck-stain
45° cut... clamped on anything straight edge and a circular saw w/ a cross cut blade for cross grain and a rip blade, well for rips...
test cut your angle setting on thick scrap..
I'm partial to Freud blades...

 

[DonkeyHody]

Teak oil doesn't come from a teak tree, and may be a blend of several oils and varnishes. There seems to be no regulation about what has to be in teak oil.

What you want to buy is 100% pure tung oil, which is about $30 per quart. A quart goes a long way. Thin it at least 1 to 1 with mineral spirits for the first 2 or 3 coats and allow 24 hours or more between coats to avoid a gummy mess. The last coat can be uncut, but wipe off everything that hasn't soaked into the wood after 30 minutes.

Any product that has the word "finish" in the name is also highly suspect. It's almost certainly a film-forming varnish and may or may not have any real tung oil in it at all. The problem with film forming varnishes outdoors is the failure mode. They tend to fail by peeling and flaking, requiring sanding and refinishing. The beauty of a 100% tung oil finish indoors or out is that you can renew the finish at any time by simply reapplying before the wood begins to gray from the sun.

 

[Barry747]

Stick, I have a 60 tooth Diablo blade in my circular saw. The main cuts are crosscuts. Since I'm still waiting for the board to be delivered, I'm not sure of the thickness. I think it's about 3". If so, my circular saw won't be able to cut it since I can only get about 2" on a 45 degree cut.

Andy, thanks for the info on Tung oil. What originally attracted me to Teak Oil was the UV protection. Do you know if there's such a thing as a UV additive for Tung oil? If not, I can go with re-oiling as needed. I really appreciate the advice.

 

[Stick486]

double cut...
cut one face.. flip it over and make the finish through cut..

 

[Archi]

I use to use Watco but it water spots. About 38 years ago I found Velvit Oil. I discovered it is used for sealing log cabins up here in Wisconsin. So... I have never had a reason to try tung oil. It seems to work on all the woods I've tried(pine to ebony) with softer woods needing more than one coat. All I have talked to who have used Velvit oil ...love it. It is made in Neenah,Wi. I'm just a very satisfied customer.

 

[Barry747]

Stick, yes, that will be the challenge. I'll know more once i receive the board. The wanted to deliver it Friday but i have a Dr appt during the delivery time so it'll be sometime next week.

Tim, I never heard of Velvit Oil but i'll do some research on it to see how it compares to Tung oil. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Stick486]

Stick, yes, that will be the challenge.

naw...
it's either mathematical or mechanical lay out..
which ever yur comfortable w/...
draw it out on paper 1st...

 

[Barry747]

Stick - I'll do that. The board will be delivered Monday, just before I leave for a visit with the grandkids. It'll be a couple of weeks but I'll let you know how it turns out. thanks for your help.

 

[coxhaus]

I tried Teak oil with UV protection on some smoker handles I made. It did not stand up well to Texas sun. It was better than Tung oil but not as good as spar marine varnish.

I would say 2 years for Teak oil with UV. Spar varnish you can get 3 to 4 years.

 

[Barry747]

Lee, Actually, spar varnish was my original choice, but, when I spoke to the guy who sold me the board, he said he used either Teak Oil or Tung Oil, whichever he can find cheaper. From my perspective, after the work I put into a project, a couple of extra buck for a better finish makes sense to me so the cheaper argument didn't work for me. That prompted me to do some research to see if Teak or Tung was the better choice. Going on line didn't help much, that's why I posted the question on the forum.

My hesitation at this point is how often I'm going to have to refinish the bench. Every few years is expected. Every six months won't work for me. Depending on were you live in Texas, your climate and mine could be very similar. I'm on the west coast of Florida about 9 miles straight line distance inland from the Gulf so besides sun we get a lot of high humidity. I'm actually less concerned about the sun since the piece will sit outside of my front door and that's a northern exposure so most of the sun light will be reflected light. Still has UV rays in it. I'm more concerned about the humidity and reducing he possibility of the mold growing on the wood.

I guess that, due to some travel, it'll anywhere from 3 to 4 weeks before I have to decide on the finish. At least now I have something to keep me up at night.

 

[Stick486]

I lived in Tampa...
14 years...
now high altitude Colorado...
any film finish didn't/doesn't fare well in either location..
oil...
sleep well..

 

[Barry747]

Stick, Ok, you convinced me. With your experience living in Tampa I'll go with oil. Thanks.

 

[Stick486]

just make sure you use the real deal and not something that just says it is...
did you know there is no such thing ''Teak'' oil...
Teak oil is for teak, not of teak.... Teak oil, generally, is not much more than a marketing gimmick for amateurs.....
now..................
do we want BLO or Tung oil???
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil

 

[Barry747]

AAAAAAaaahhhhh!!!! Ok, I'm calm now. I do know that Teak Oil is formulated for Teak, not from Teak. I was leaning towards Tung and had begun to shop around for it online before you introduce BLO in the mix, so to speak. However, after reading the two articles you listed I'm going with Tung Oil. I'll dilute pure Tung Oil 1:1 with Mineral Spirits for the first few coats until the wood stops absorbing it then go to straight oil for the last coat or 3. I will do my best to be sure each coat is dry before applying successive coats. I've read some horror stories of people who were in a hurry and ended up with a gummy mess that wouldn't dry. Should be an interesting experience. Since this was a very expensive board, I'll practice on a cutoff first. Time is not an issue so whether this takes a week or a month doesn't matter to me.

Quick update. The board arrived and measures 2 1/2 inches thick, 94" long and varies from 8" in the center to 13" at the ends. It's a reclaimed board, there are some screw holes in the bottom of it, so it's already flat with a uniform thickness. All I have to do, besides making the cuts for the end panels, is to sand off the old finish. After sanding I'll see if it absorbs the oil on a test piece which should help me determine if the existing finish is a film or oil. Either way, once I'm down to bare wood I'll go with the Tung oil.

If you think I said anything stupid in this post please let me know. Otherwise, once again, thanks for you advice.

 

[Stick486]

sanding happens AFTER you ''wash'' the old finish out of your slab....

Recipe for Fornby's or Hope's furniture stripper:
Equal parts of acetone, methanol (wood alcohol), methylene chloride and tolulene
soak or paint it on... little goes a long way... wrap/cover the object in a cotton towel and soak the towel... use a white one...
remove the towel and scrape the sludge of w. a plastic putty knife...
don't bother asking what happens if you use a synthetic fabric towel or one that has been dyed...

Always (paint/finish/oil formula/MSDS unknown) consider the probability of the paint being a lead and/or copper base being pretty good... it may fizz/boil/pop/what not a bit.... kinda like mixing Rice Krispies and Alka-Selzer together...

I trust you will be doing this out doors, in a breeze, while holding your breath and using chemical gloves ...
just never forget you are dealing with unknown paint/finish/oil.. small segment to start 1st..

 

[DaninVan]

What kind of finish is on there already, Barry? Varnish, or something else?
You might want to try using a heat gun and scraper first. If it's something like varnish, you're going to gum up a lot of sandpaper (or belts).

*Ahhh...Stick beat me to actually posting. If you're going the chemical route try plain old lacquer thinner, and a scraper...and a vapour mask.

 

[Stick486]

AAAAAAaaahhhhh!!!! Ok, I'm calm now.
I'll dilute pure Tung Oil 1:1 with Mineral Spirits

keep reading...

.