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Discussion Starter #1
hi everybody greetings from india.i just finished pantorouter the plans from matthias wandel.
after all this machine is based on router so thought i should post the pictures on this site.please have a look on my project.hope you would like it.if you have any question please feel free to ask :)


side pose of pantorouter


front side of pantorouter


template setting for mortise same like leigh fmt jigs


template setting for tenons


counter springs to make pantorouter light, different than the origional idea from woodgears.ca


then finally welding and drilling jig for pantograph mechanism to keep it precise and allign


i used turn pipe from scrap and put inside solid piece of steel same outer dia as router body and centered it 6mm




and put inside my welding and drilliing jig


 

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Any pictures of something made with the device?
Thanks for posting.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Any pictures of something made with the device?
Thanks for posting.
i have uploaded video on youtube but i m not allowed to post this link untill i reach 10 post :(
so please search on youtube Pantorouter made from steel my username is hillpanther on youtube
 

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Hello!

Well done !

Strong construction.

Last week I have first discovered this pantorouter from Matthias Wandel

Pantorouter

Looking for ways to ease operations like tenon, mortice and dovetailing.

I like it at first, but at second thought, did wonder Why shall i get bothered

About making models for this machine 2 times bigger than actual size of my project...

A lot easier would be to make models at real scale.

So what about a simple 1/1 scale copying pantograph ?

Its only a matter of placing a sensing finger same size than cuttter size.

Seen some made of wood that are made to copy sculptures, i think they could

also copy tenons , mortice, dovetails.

Regards

Gerard
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanx bobj3!! i m using12mm hitachi hss endmill which is good for tenon but for mortising it's not really good.in the video you can see i m taking almost double time to mortising compare to tenon.i m sure if i will use upcut spiral router bit result wouldbe totally different.i do have leigh carbide upcut spiral bit but it's 1/2 inch shank but my hitachi router has 12mm colt.could you please suggest my any extra long 12mm plunge cut router bit?i mean 75mm cutting lenth.
thanx in advance
 

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Hello!
Those cutters looks very difficult to find, i' m looking too for long ones
The biggest i have bought is a 50mm deep from Trend and it's a straight 1/2" bit.
-Could you tell me where to find some long ones like 75 mm ?
-About your problem, I suggest you buy a 1/2" collet for that motor so you will
have more choice for your cutters.

My router is a Metabo OFE 1812 comming with metric 12mm, I just bought a 1/2" and a 8mm collet made for Dewalt 625 And they fits perfectly.

It was quite difficult to find information about collets compatibility, and i don't remember
Where i found it out, but it looks like professional big routers use same standart for collets.

Metabo OFE18102= Dewalt625 = trend t11 = Old Big Elu MOF ??

Regards

Gerard
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hello!
Those cutters looks very difficult to find, i' m looking too for long ones
The biggest i have bought is a 50mm deep from Trend and it's a straight 1/2" bit.
-Could you tell me where to find some long ones like 75 mm ?
-About your problem, I suggest you buy a 1/2" collet for that motor so you will
have more choice for your cutters.

My router is a Metabo OFE 1812 comming with metric 12mm, I just bought a 1/2" and a 8mm collet made for Dewalt 625 And they fits perfectly.

It was quite difficult to find information about collets compatibility, and i don't remember
Where i found it out, but it looks like professional big routers use same standart for collets.

Metabo OFE18102= Dewalt625 = trend t11 = Old Big Elu MOF ??

Regards

Gerard
i m really sorry ggom20 that i don't know which router bit you can use.because i have used end mill in the video you can see which is not good for plunge route when i made mortise with endmill i had to use very little feed everytime,iwhen i used long feed rate my endmill start shaking and i feel its gonna be broken but if you will use spiral upcut bit you don't need to worry about this problem but as you know plunge router
maximum plunge is 65mm so i don't think it will help you.
 

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hello!
Thank you for the care you took to give me this answer.
You are right, an upcut spiral cutter should do better.
Unfortunatly, i was not able to find one except asking for a special make.
Some manufacturers could make it from solid carbide but I did not even ask.
As I am very sure it would bee a bit too expensive for me.

For my specific problem of finding cutters, I started a new thread, as it is a specific
problem to me, having soon to make gig mortices:

http://www.routerforums.com/router-bits-types-usage/33676-cutter-deep-mortice.html

You can see there I ordered a 1/2" diameter 3 "" cutter, hope it will be a good tool.

The plunge router for this job is a Metabo OFE1812 (discontinued type) and has a plunge

capacity of 82mm so a 3"" (75mm) cutter will fit.

Nowadays there is an other router that plunges 80mm: the trend T11.

I think your construction of pantorouter is a great tool and that I may be able to build
something similar, using my plunge router or an other motor to move the bit.
So, like for you, plunge distance wouldl not be a problem anymore.

Traditional Japanese house building uses dovetailing in large woods like 120mmx120mm,
the use of a router or milling machine would help a lot making those nice joinery.
I keep thinking of it and of milling machines for making a better job.


Just a last thing: the cutter I ordered is no spiral, then the same problem will affect
my work: the mortice will be full of dust. I will try my air compressor with a thin copper
pipe to blow air in the mortice. At 6 Bars pressure it blows quite a lot.

I hope things go well for you and that you find good solutions for your works.

Regards
Gérard
 

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Discussion Starter #11
you have found very nice bit for deep morticing.i will also give order for this one from amana.thanx for sharing the link :)
about pantorouter, it's really nice jig which every shop should have.it's very light and small so you can transport anywhere in the car even.you can make dovetail, finger joint and other japanese joinery.well right now i m in himalayas and next week going back to japan.after it i will share my more experience of pantorouter.
 

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Hello!

Thanks for your reply.

Yes this pantorouter is very interesting!

One other french guy wants to cut dovetails for house building,
As i think it is good to share informations, I sended him link to your
pantorouter made of steel.

His thead about dovetailling is this one:
http://www.routerforums.com/router-bits-types-usage/33033-dovetail-bit-house-building.html

Been interested to by this Arunda system, but its way to expensive.
And not as safe as the pantorouter.

About japanese joinery, I' m reading this book:

Complete Japanese Joinery: A Handbook of Japanese Tool Use and Woodworking for Joiners and Carpenters : Yasuo Nakahara : Livres anglais et étrangers

And I have a question that you might know the answer,but if you Have not
enought time to answer now it is not a problem. One has got so many things to
do and so litle time...

In case of japanese made joinery for perpendicular beams,
it looks like the dovetails have a 1/4 ratio, is that right ?
This book is not really clear about ratios.
Its unusual in cabinet making, but might bee stronger than a 1/6.

By the way ,I started a theorical study about dovetailing strength and optimisation
of joinery, and i will soon start a new thread about it.

Regards.
Gérard
 

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a few mistakes and a bit of clarifications

hello gav!

Thanks for your visit did you get the router you where showing pict?
"What router is this"
(please answer about this on your original thread about that router.) :)
http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/33351-what-router.html

Yes way to small !

The router bit I'm talking and what samurai is also talking of has to be a long bit
for deep mortice and also for a long mortice.
I need making mortices 4 inches deep and 3 inches long.
The width will be 1 and 1/2 inch or say about 30mm.
So the bit will have to be fairly long.
Maybe a 1/2" bit could not be longer than 3" , cause of breaking issues.
If you know about those bits for deep mortice,you may go posting here: :)
http://www.routerforums.com/router-bits-types-usage/33676-cutter-deep-mortice.html
 

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To samurai:

3" long for a 1/2" dia seems to be the limit.

The bit might brake easy at this lenght...

So another way is to go bigger diameters.
Titman Tip Tools :: The best in router tooling, Products and applications for the woodworking industry
Today founded this about straight cutters and they make spiral ones:
http://www.titman.co.uk/pdfs/2009/P125_144_CNC-Tooling.pdf

ref: Smc20105-2r
It is a 20mm dia 2 flute, cutting 105mm total lenght 165 mm upcut spiral solid carbide.
Price is also heavy, but they also got smaller ones.
They also have many other things and make custom bits on demand.

It also requires a 20 mm collet motor quite a bit out of range for a normal router.
Don' t know how to use such a bit. (Except in metal-mill)
But most metal mills turn to slow.
Just in case...

And it will make me look for a 2400w 15000rpm motor with a 20mm collet.

Anyway when you will be back in Japan , you will be in the country where some
know about making things that cut sharp. Never seen something cutting better
than japanese chisels, difficult to sharpen at first but then it's a pleasure.
You may find things closer than USA or UK made cutters...

Regards.
Gérard
 

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Discussion Starter #19
sorry bobj3!! this router bit can't be use for mortising because the cutting bits from upside not touch each other.or there should be atleast center cutting blade(please check the [picture on ebay link).so this router bit is not suitable for deep mortising but it can use for slot cutting for sure but you must need to make hole for it's starting point.
 

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Hi Sam

True it's not a true plunge router bit But if the bit is turning at 20,000 rpm it will plunge down it can't be used like a drill bit true but I have use many router bits of that type and they will plunge down most of the time doing mortising the bit is moving down and to the side at the same time it just needs to move the chips out of it's way to cut a deep slot :) it may take a extra pass to clean out the bottom of the slot but it can do the job easy. :)


MLCS Plunge Cutting Straight Router Bits
===

sorry bobj3!! this router bit can't be use for mortising because the cutting bits from upside not touch each other.or there should be atleast center cutting blade(please check the [picture on ebay link).so this router bit is not suitable for deep mortising but it can use for slot cutting for sure but you must need to make hole for it's starting point.
 

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