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Discussion Starter #1
Long time no post. I am finally to the point where I want to pick up some more equipment and take the next step to my new hobby. I want to be able to cabinets, doors, trim, book cases, stairs, whatever really. I have looking around online for equipment but with so many options I found myself not sure what to get. I want to keep my budget in or around the $3000 range. I had been in talks with someone for one of those Robland 5-1's, they wanted $2500 I offered $2000 so we might be too far apart plus its a 4 hour drive each way. I still am not sold on one of those but they have everything I would need, especially since I only have a one car garage.

Here is what I currently have......
Bosch Contracting Saw (with portable stand)
Bosch Compound Sliding Miter Saw
Delta 100 Shopmaster Bandsaw
Delta 200 Shopmaster Drill Press

I have been looking around and would you rather have a brand new Jet 12" Planer/Jointer Combo for $2250 or a used Jet 20" Planer (with straight cutter blades with extra blades and wheeled base), and a Powermatic 8" Jointer (few extra blades/jigs/wheeled stand) and plus a Mortiser (don't know brand) for $2700. They want $2700 but I would want to offer a few hundred less. Problem is either way it only leaves me with a little money for a good deal on a Shaper.
 

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Geez, Eric, ask a simple question why dont'cha? ;)
Seriously, you need to ask yourself what you want to do with your woodworking. I was perfectly happy with my Delta planer until I got interested in making cutting boards. Now, I'd be happier with a 15".
I'm really wanting a drum sander now. The King 16" open arm model is a $1K.
That package deal sounds reasonable at $2,700 assuming they're all in great shape. (A 20" planer ain't cheap)
That'll make a Hell of a workshop! You'll have us drooling...
https://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-20-helical-cutterhead-planer-106703
 

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Eric, I don't know how big your shop is ,but if it is a 2 car garage a 20" planer is a might large. I had a 15" Delta and that was about max.

Herb

I reread your post and see you have a one car garage, That planer will take up a lot of space. The Robland has a 12" planer on it. Looks like a very good machine. A friend of mine had a similar one in a one car garage and built a small sail boat with it.

Herb
 

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Eric I`m not familiar with the Robland but any machine where you have to continuosly change the setup from one function to another is going to be a pain, but that has to be weighed against space and the possibility that you might not have room for a stand alone of one or more functions. Forget the shaper unless you plan on specializing in making doors or windows. They are a production machine where you will be making a lot of one thing plus some of the bits are as costly as a new router. A jointer is a must for me and I use a lot of rough lumber so the planer is too. A 20inch is a bit of overkill but it will handle anything you throw at it. A drill press mortiser attachment works about as well as a dedicated one for most of us and doesn`t take up extra room but if it`s part of a package that is a little different. My Delta attachment cost me about $70 at a woodworking show. You have some difficult choices to make.
 

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I have the Ridgid 13" planer. I put a spiral cutter head in it and I love the set-up. I really like Ridgid's life time warranty and have found the company to be responsive to my questions. I didn't research the planer when I bought it and had a hard time finding a spiral cutting head that would work in it.

Buck
 

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I really like Ridgid's life time warranty and have found the company to be responsive to my questions.

Buck
I have the same planer you do...no problems so far.

I also have a Ridgid 10" table saw which arrived with broken castings. I got zero help from Ridgid when I called their head office, nothing but a very rude brush off. Quite frankly I was disgusted.

They referred me to their "parts department" so that I could buy the replacement parts. It turned out to be another company entirely. It was going to cost in the order of $300 Cdn to repair.

Then I went to HD, where I bought the saw, 100% different attitude. They disassembled another saw and gave me the parts I needed on the spot. It seems that these castings have been a source of trouble in the past, something that HD was quite happy to tell me.
 

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Good to know, Keith. I had no particular negative evidence, but there was something about Ridgid's foray into woodworking that kinda put me off.
*shrugs*...
 

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I really agree with this. Set up time is a total killer - wasted time. The space saving is something to consider but switching setups is going to slow you down and really detract from your enjoyment of the process. Back in the 70s, my dad had several friends that bought the old Shopsmith multitool Mark whatevers. I regularly heard a lot of joking about the how much dust they had collected. The reality was that to do anything substantial with them, there was more setting up, reconfiguring and so on than there was wood working. You have to be really really organized to avoid a lot of setup changes. First time you ruin a piece and have to cut another one you will get my point. Setting up the saw to make just one cut gets old fast.

Personally, I would look into a small set of separate tools on casters/mobile bases. For a small space, my choices would be a contractor TS, lunchbox planer, drill press and router table as mobile separates. You can do almost anything with that setup and, with a little cleverness, can stow those into a pretty small space.

I've found that the less set up I have to do, the more I like woodworking. If I was forced into having to use a multitool, I'd probably give up.

Eric I`m not familiar with the Robland but any machine where you have to continuosly change the setup from one function to another is going to be a pain, but that has to be weighed against space and the possibility that you might not have room for a stand alone of one or more functions. ...
 

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I have the Ridgid 13" planer. I put a spiral cutter head in it and I love the set-up. I really like Ridgid's life time warranty and have found the company to be responsive to my questions. I didn't research the planer when I bought it and had a hard time finding a spiral cutting head that would work in it.

Buck
Out of curiosity, dropping the new cutter head into it didn't void the warranty?
 

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Good to know, Keith. I had no particular negative evidence, but there was something about Ridgid's foray into woodworking that kinda put me off.
*shrugs*...
The Kamloops HD store has a lady manager in the tool department, sorry I don't remember her first name. She's very knowledgeable.

Turns out her hubby is a woodworker also, and she was aware that more than one of these saws had arrived with the main casting that holds the motor to the frame had snapped right off. I have pics here somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Geez, Eric, ask a simple question why dont'cha? ;)
Seriously, you need to ask yourself what you want to do with your woodworking. I was perfectly happy with my Delta planer until I got interested in making cutting boards. Now, I'd be happier with a 15".
I'm really wanting a drum sander now. The King 16" open arm model is a $1K.
That package deal sounds reasonable at $2,700 assuming they're all in great shape. (A 20" planer ain't cheap)
That'll make a Hell of a workshop! You'll have us drooling...
https://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-20-helical-cutterhead-planer-106703
Well it looks like I may have been too late. The listing is no longer there after sitting there for over a week. To say I am disappointed would be an understatement but I was not sure I could make it work with my limited space. I would prefer to not have to keep upgrading machinery so I try to get something I will be happy with for a long time. However I guess there is always something bigger and better. It looks like I'll either have to shop around some more or stick with the Jet 12 Inch Planer/Jointer at $2250.

Eric, I don't know how big your shop is ,but if it is a 2 car garage a 20" planer is a might large. I had a 15" Delta and that was about max.

Herb

I reread your post and see you have a one car garage, That planer will take up a lot of space. The Robland has a 12" planer on it. Looks like a very good machine. A friend of mine had a similar one in a one car garage and built a small sail boat with it.

Herb
Its 16'x22' not a tiny one car but could be a little better. its an attached garage and I have no room to expand it so I have to make due with what I had. I was hoping since both machines the guy was selling were on wheels I could easily maneuver them around. My only issue with the Robland was that you have to constantly work around yourself. That and if later on I decided I didn't like it or wanted to upgrade I might have an issue selling it. I could be wrong but it would seem easier to piece out things than try and find that one guy that needs everything.

Eric I`m not familiar with the Robland but any machine where you have to continuosly change the setup from one function to another is going to be a pain, but that has to be weighed against space and the possibility that you might not have room for a stand alone of one or more functions. Forget the shaper unless you plan on specializing in making doors or windows. They are a production machine where you will be making a lot of one thing plus some of the bits are as costly as a new router. A jointer is a must for me and I use a lot of rough lumber so the planer is too. A 20inch is a bit of overkill but it will handle anything you throw at it. A drill press mortiser attachment works about as well as a dedicated one for most of us and doesn`t take up extra room but if it`s part of a package that is a little different. My Delta attachment cost me about $70 at a woodworking show. You have some difficult choices to make.
That is my issue. One second I think I know what I might want and by the time I make up my mind its too late, somebody else swoops in and gets the machine(s) I wanted. With the 20 Inch planer I figured I would never have to upgrade it and it was in great shape. Whats really bothering me is the guy was only an hour away. So getting the machines would have been much easier.

If the guy selling the Robland lived closer I would love to look at it, but I was a little scared off while doing research and I found his picture is actually someone else's machine. Which people sometimes do when selling things when they don't have a camera/phone but it should be mentioned in negotiations that its not a picture of their actual machine.

As for the Shaper. I am pretty set on getting one. It might be over kill and I'll need a router/table set up anyways, I know. However if I decided I want to turn my focus on producing cabinetry doors, or whatever else on a more than hobby related level I'd have the option.

I have the Ridgid 13" planer. I put a spiral cutter head in it and I love the set-up. I really like Ridgid's life time warranty and have found the company to be responsive to my questions. I didn't research the planer when I bought it and had a hard time finding a spiral cutting head that would work in it.

Buck
I haven't really thought about picking up a Rigid. My main focus searches have been around Jet, Powermatic, Delta, and some Grizzly.

For now my options just narrowed and I wish I would have posted asking for opinions sooner. One major question I have before I forget to ask is, is the Robland X31 a 1 Phase or 3 Phase? If its a 3 Phase that would rule it out for me. Its tough to pass up an all in one machine for $2500 that has a 12 inch planer/jointer when a Jet 12 Inch jointer/planer combo is going to run $2250 alone.

I really agree with this. Set up time is a total killer - wasted time. The space saving is something to consider but switching setups is going to slow you down and really detract from your enjoyment of the process. Back in the 70s, my dad had several friends that bought the old Shopsmith multitool Mark whatevers. I regularly heard a lot of joking about the how much dust they had collected. The reality was that to do anything substantial with them, there was more setting up, reconfiguring and so on than there was wood working. You have to be really really organized to avoid a lot of setup changes. First time you ruin a piece and have to cut another one you will get my point. Setting up the saw to make just one cut gets old fast.

Personally, I would look into a small set of separate tools on casters/mobile bases. For a small space, my choices would be a contractor TS, lunchbox planer, drill press and router table as mobile separates. You can do almost anything with that setup and, with a little cleverness, can stow those into a pretty small space.

I've found that the less set up I have to do, the more I like woodworking. If I was forced into having to use a multitool, I'd probably give up.
That is what worries me. I would get easily annoyed if I were using one machine and had it all set up and had to do something else and have to redo everything. Issue I am running into would be space and affordability. I figure I can go for the Planer/Jointer Combo Machine which saves a bunch of room, but at the cost of over $2200 it eats up a lot of my budget. I do have a pretty good contractor saw so I guess if I were using the shaper on the Robland and had to recut something I could just use that. Another thing someone might be able to help me out with is how much dust collection is enough? I saw a few of the machines out there for around $200 each. Would this be worth picking up for $200? Or would I need something larger?

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/t...mpaignId=T9F&gclid=CKG5i57i1MoCFYSBaQodgKUBmQ
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well looks like I was wrong, I did another search and found the same guy with the Jet 20 Inch Planer and Powermatic 8" Jointer so it is still available. It sounds like I wouldn't have nearly enough room for these machines though.
 

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Eric I may be seen as being overly pessimistic but I strongly doubt that you will be operating a cabinet door or window operation out of your 1 car garage. To do something like that profitably you need to either run hundreds of pieces at a time or have dedicated machines set up with one set of bits that never get changed so that you can just walk over a flip a switch when you need to run something. Price of bits is also an issue. A Freud rail and stile set will run you $260 and a raised panel cutter another $150 or so. Plus a shaper takes up a lot of floor space. For the home shop they really aren't that practical.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Eric I may be seen as being overly pessimistic but I strongly doubt that you will be operating a cabinet door or window operation out of your 1 car garage. To do something like that profitably you need to either run hundreds of pieces at a time or have dedicated machines set up with one set of bits that never get changed so that you can just walk over a flip a switch when you need to run something. Price of bits is also an issue. A Freud rail and stile set will run you $260 and a raised panel cutter another $150 or so. Plus a shaper takes up a lot of floor space. For the home shop they really aren't that practical.
I hear what you're saying and I didnt take offense to it. After all I am hear for advice and opinions. I am not sure the standard size of a one car garage but I just measured mine and its 23.5 x 17 feet, not including another little side nook where I could store a machine 3'x3'. I do have a lot to think about and trying to figure out a functioning floor plan I think should be my first step. I am aware of the cost of getting bits as I already plan on buying the Freud system so I can remodel my kitchen. I would disagree that a garage my size couldn't have a functional work area if don't right but I guess you'd know better than me (being serious). I guess I'll have my answer once I get an idea of how large all of the machines are and how much area I need to use them.
 

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Eric, I think it is as much about the space that you need around the machinery as it is the machinery itself.

I recently picked a commercial shaper from a cabinet shop closing in the Vancouver area. He was being forced out by a new Skytrain station going up. I would say his shop was about 12-1300 square feet and he made mainly kitchen cabinets. He had every machine you could wish for...but not much room around any of them.

He had done a great job of laying the shop out, but still he said he would love to have had another 1000 square feet. Material storage was one of his big bugaboos. Same as mine is going to be.

You have just 400 square feet to work with and I wish you well in working out your floor plan.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
A little update. I just got back from a long road trip picking up a few machines. Got stuck in a nasty snow storm but it was worth it. I ended up getting a Delta Cabinet Saw 10", an 8" Grizzly Jointer, a 3HP Grizzly Shaper, and a 20" 5HP Grizzly Planer. Still have a ways to go but it is a good start.
 

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Wow, that's a great start on a woodshop right there. Hope you got good prices on them. Now get makin' sawdust and keep us apprised of your progress.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Wow, that's a great start on a woodshop right there. Hope you got good prices on them. Now get makin' sawdust and keep us apprised of your progress.
Thanks. I think I overpaid for the Shaper but it is in great shape with little use on it. I've got about $3550 into all of it including a table top Delta Bandsaw and Drill Press and some new Diablo saw blades. I'll have a little rewiring to do to accommodate the new machines and I still want to pick up a dust collector but I think I have the majority of tools I need now. My main regret was I didn't have more time to chat longer with the three people I bought the machines from. All of them were really friendly and helpful.

I am looking forward to getting everything situated and finally getting to start remodeling my kitchen later this year.
 

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Yeah, a good shop starts with lots of power capacity where the tools are going to be. I went so far as to upgrade our service so I have around 120A available to me. Every wall has a quad 120VAC outlet every 4 feet and a 240VAC outlet every 8 ft. I even have dual 120VAC outlets between each of the 5 garage doors. There are 2 240VAC circuits, one of which is 50A. Have fun!
 
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