Problem with a bit

2927 Views 17 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Hamlin, Feb 28, 2007

Mike

Discussion Starter · Feb 23, 2007

A friend showed me a combination rail and stile bit, (one that makes both cuts) with the complaint that it didnt cut the joint properly. On inspecting the test joint I noticed that the full depth of cut was not used. With this type of joint it is important to be sure the cutter and fence are properly adjusted. For the joint to be strong you must make use of the full depth of cut since this is what adds stability to the joint.

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

challagan

· #2 · Feb 24, 2007

Hi Mike, how was he able to not use the full depth of cut on that? I have one of those for 3/4 stock. I take it he was using a fence with it so he was cutting up the bearings?

Corey

Mike

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 24, 2007

This particular bit does not have bearings, it depends on the fence to be set for the proper depth of cut. On the test pieces there was almost 1/8" depth of cut not used. I discovered this by placing the bit into the profile. That extra 1/8" makes the joint stable instead of just fitting together.

bobj3

· #4 · Feb 24, 2007

Hi Mike

I think it's the same type that Bob and Rick like to use and used on the show a time or two to make Stile & Rails doors.

http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=RBIT-RB50-

Bj

Mike

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 24, 2007 (Edited)

BJ, As a matter of fact that is exactly the bit being discussed. BrianS brought it over to show me last Saturday, a friend of his had purchased it and complained it did not cut correctly. He sent it back and they tested it and declared it worked fine. Since then the guy bought a Freud set and is using it. I suggested that Brian should make him an offer for the bit. Brian is limited to a 1/4" collet for now so I guess that bit is in limbo.

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del schisler

· #6 · Feb 24, 2007

router bit

I have the same bit It work's fine for me It has to be set up correct to work I like the combo That way No bit change Just saves some time

Mike said:
BJ, As a matter of fact that is exactly the bit being discussed. BrianS brought it over to show me last Saturday, a friend of his had purchased it and complained it did not cut correctly. He sent it back and they tested it and declared it worked fine. Since then the guy bought a Freud set and is using it. I suggested that Brian should make him an offer for the bit. Brian is limited to a 1/4" collet for now so I guess that bit is in limbo.

bobj3

· #7 · Feb 24, 2007

Hi Mike
That's what I thought, I have one also but they can be a bit tricky to setup and use, I think Bob and Rick like it because they don't need to remove the fence and replace the bit with a new one and then set it up again with the new bit, you/they can just move the bit up or down and make the new parts.

This is a nice bit to have in the bit tool box but a pattern set is almost a must ,the one I have came from Grizzly and it comes with a bearing to help set it up and it works well but only in the 1/2" shank size.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/c1689

Bj

challagan

· #8 · Feb 24, 2007

I have one that I got from Eagle America. Have had it for awhile now and only used it to make the doors on the cabinet shown below. It is also a one piece but if I remember right
it has a bearing in the center as well. It worked fairly well. I made this piece almost 20 years ago and was the first piece of furniture I did. Still in the living room and holding up. As you can see, I made the classic mistake when I made the doors in not not compensating for the inset of the rail and stile so the doors ended up a little short, hence the filler strip on each side

They also have shrunk a little bit over time.. never used to be a gap back then in the center. Momma was happy though! I think I used this piece as an excuse to buy about 5 new tools

Corey

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #9 · Feb 24, 2007 (Edited)

Right you are BJ. I have a set from Whiteside. The reason I posted this thread was to make the point of using the full depth of cut. Proper bit set up is important for all applications and critical on some.

Corey, I like the 5 tool excuse idea. I have found through experience that no matter what the excuse, a new tool = a new pair of shoes, which reminds me, I have to go build my wife a new larger shoe rack.

Woodnut65

· #10 · Feb 25, 2007

Hi: here's my two cents worth. There are a number of bits on the market that will cut the stile and rail with the same bit. However, some of them don't reference the cut from the face side of the material. That is the face should be down on the table with both stile and rail cuts. that way if there is a minor difference in material thickness it will be on the back of the door and more easily sanded down without showing. I use both the single cutter, and the sets with separate cutters for the style and rail.
No matter which you use they will not fit together unless they are cut to the full depth. Shaper cutters work the exact same way. Woodnut65

bobj3

· #11 · Feb 25, 2007 (Edited)

HI Woodnut65

That's a GREAT point to make, most Shapers Don't use bearing some use rub collars for some jobs but the fence is the key with them and they can do the job with just a 3/4 HP motor at Spindle Speed: 8,900 RPM.

Bits ▼
http://www.grizzly.com/products/c2017
http://www.grizzly.com/products/c2316
Shaper ▼
http://www.grizzly.com/products/g0510z
http://www.grizzly.com/products/g1035
http://www.grizzly.com/products/g4792
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H3325

BJ

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BrianS

· #12 · Feb 25, 2007

I've no experience with rail and stile bits so can only go by what my friend told me. He has the complete Oakpark setup... table, fence, bit, etc. According to him, there is no setup for it as far as depth, install the bit, install the fence into the locating holes, tighten it down and make doors. The Freud set that Mike mentioned was used with a homemade fence, on the Oakpark table, and makes great doors. I suggested that he try the bit with his fence and see what happens. Not sure if he's had the time to do that or not.

The thing that he is really confused by is the fact that when he first got it, it worked great. He showed me several (10-12?) that he made for storage cabinets in his garage when he first got it and was practicing. They all fit together perfectly. Then, with no setup changes, it started having this gap.

Brian

del schisler

· #13 · Feb 27, 2007

rail and stile bit

The bit i have I belive i got it from Price Cutter ? Their are other Mfd. out their It has a bearing in the center So You use a streight edge and set the fence's up so that the bearing and fence are all toutching Once you do that You will be ready to cut This is the max cut you can get The bearing wont let you go and deeper I belive the wood is 3/4" also

BrianS said:
I've no experience with rail and stile bits so can only go by what my friend told me. He has the complete Oakpark setup... table, fence, bit, etc. According to him, there is no setup for it as far as depth, install the bit, install the fence into the locating holes, tighten it down and make doors. The Freud set that Mike mentioned was used with a homemade fence, on the Oakpark table, and makes great doors. I suggested that he try the bit with his fence and see what happens. Not sure if he's had the time to do that or not.

The thing that he is really confused by is the fact that when he first got it, it worked great. He showed me several (10-12?) that he made for storage cabinets in his garage when he first got it and was practicing. They all fit together perfectly. Then, with no setup changes, it started having this gap.

Brian

Hamlin

· #14 · Feb 27, 2007

If you have the Oak Park raised panel system, then you needn't worry about depth setting. It's all done as you set in the fence for the cutter. If you don't have the system, then a regular fence will do.

Mike

Discussion Starter · #15 · Feb 27, 2007 (Edited)

Ken, The owner of the bit HAS the Oak Park system and was not getting good results. The bit we are discussing is from Oak Park. Something is amiss and we have yet to figure out what. The reason I started this thread was to promote proper set ups for all projects.

The bit does have a height adjustment, it is set so the lowest cutter is 1/8" above the table. If this is not done all the geometry would be off. I picked up this information today from Rick.

Hamlin

· #16 · Feb 27, 2007

Mike, check the compression pins that are in the fence, see if they've moved or the holes in the plates are slightly over round. If either case, that will not allow for proper depth of cut.

"The bit does have a height adjustment, it is set so the lowest cutter is 1/8" above the table. If this is not done all the geometry would be off. I picked up this information today from Rick."
Are we still talking about the depth of cut or the height or am I simply misunderstanding?

Mike

Discussion Starter · #17 · Feb 28, 2007

Ken, I have never seen the table in question, it is in Canada. Brian mentioned this to me and I tried to figure out what was wrong.

When setting up for your first cut the bit is adjusted so the lowest cutter is 1/8" above the table surface.(I believe this is for the rails) The fence should be automaticly located by the pins. If these steps are followed everything should be correct.

Hamlin

· #18 · Feb 28, 2007

I've done some rereading here.... so I apologize if I came across wrong earlier.
Mike, I totally agree with proper setup procedures. (Thumbs up here)
Brian, I wonder if your friend is making sure things are clamped down securely and, am also wondering if perhaps chip buildup may be the cause? I know every once in awhile I'll catch myself trying to "hurry" up on a project, then I step back, take a breather.
I have yet to encounter any problems with my OP setup.

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