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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, hello to everyone, I live in Italy, I am looking for a good quality vertical milling machine, the problem is that I have a limited budget, about 100 - 120 €, I have to flatten a top of a table, so I need it quite powerful, 1200 watts I think they are sufficient, I have identified the "Bosch Home and Garden 060326A100 POF 1200 AE Milling machine, 1200 W, 230 V", but I am not convinced, they say that the accessories supplied and the depth adjustment system are of low quality, obviously I know the Makita , dewalt, CMT, festool, are excellent products but cost too much, with the budget I have, is there a good quality milling machine ?
 

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Hello N/A...

by a good quality vertical milling machine do you mean a Router???



how much flattening do you need to do and how large is this table???

a ski might be your solution...
here is one example, there are many variations, see the PDF...

.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hello N/A...

by a good quality vertical milling machine do you mean a Router???



how much flattening do you need to do and how large is this table???

a ski might be your solution...
here is one example, there are many variations, see the PDF...

.

Hi, thank you very much for replying, yes exactly, I mean a router like the one you showed me, the problem is that I have a low budget, which router do you recommend ?

As a cutter I wanted to use the CMT 901.190.11

The Top to be flattened measures 209 x 60 cm, for the sled I wanted I had something like this in mind:
 

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I used a sled very similar to that one to level the top of a workbench I laminated together so no problem there. The Bosch is rated among the best here and I can't remember anyone complaining about the height adjustment system on it. I have 3 Hitachi routers and like them all. I don't know what effect, if any, that Hitachi's recent merger with Metabo has had on their tools. The Hitachi VC model is the same size as the 1200 watt Bosch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I used a sled very similar to that one to level the top of a workbench I laminated together so no problem there. The Bosch is rated among the best here and I can't remember anyone complaining about the height adjustment system on it. I have 3 Hitachi routers and like them all. I don't know what effect, if any, that Hitachi's recent merger with Metabo has had on their tools. The Hitachi VC model is the same size as the 1200 watt Bosch.
Hi, thank you for the advice, I am referring to the Bosch Home and Garden 060326A100 POF 1200 AE Milling machine, 1200 W, 230 V, the green model, with 100 - 120 euros are there any better routers ?

What exactly is your Hitachi model? and the M12V2 ?

What kind of laminate did you use? ant, hpl sheets 0,5 mm ? Mine is a desk, if you know some reliable shop that ships to Italy let me know.
 

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I have an M12V. M12V2, and a fixed base M12VC. I use the M12V2 in my router table because it has above table adjusting capability built into it. I used the M12V before it but it does not have that feature. Both those routers are around 1800 watts I think (15 amps on our 120 volt electrical system). I bought the M12VC in fixed base since I didn't need another plunge and it is a joy to use where a plunge isn't needed. A fixed base has a lower center of gravity which tends to make it easier to use for edge profiling. The M12VC is around 1200 watts and is the same as the Bosch 1617 over here in comparable size. Some router models are different from here to other countries because of the difference in our power systems. Our standard is 120 volt and 15 amps single pole and 60 cycle. Most other countries use a 7.5 amp 230 volt single pole system running at 50 cycles. A few makers use the same model numbers for both systems and the rest use a different model number to avoid confusion. I don't know for sure if that Bosch model you are looking at is the same as our 1617 but it is the same in terms of power input. A check against the parts lists for each would tell you how similar they are. Parts like bearings and router casing (body) would be the same. The only parts that should be different are electrical parts like the armature and field coils. They would be made to be compatible with your electrical system.

As far as a suitable material for a router table I would say that the desk you show should work fine. Even melamine coated particle board (the common material for Euro kitchen cabinets) works well. It just doesn't wear as well or for as long as high pressure laminate does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have an M12V. M12V2, and a fixed base M12VC. I use the M12V2 in my router table because it has above table adjusting capability built into it. I used the M12V before it but it does not have that feature. Both those routers are around 1800 watts I think (15 amps on our 120 volt electrical system). I bought the M12VC in fixed base since I didn't need another plunge and it is a joy to use where a plunge isn't needed. A fixed base has a lower center of gravity which tends to make it easier to use for edge profiling. The M12VC is around 1200 watts and is the same as the Bosch 1617 over here in comparable size. Some router models are different from here to other countries because of the difference in our power systems. Our standard is 120 volt and 15 amps single pole and 60 cycle. Most other countries use a 7.5 amp 230 volt single pole system running at 50 cycles. A few makers use the same model numbers for both systems and the rest use a different model number to avoid confusion. I don't know for sure if that Bosch model you are looking at is the same as our 1617 but it is the same in terms of power input. A check against the parts lists for each would tell you how similar they are. Parts like bearings and router casing (body) would be the same. The only parts that should be different are electrical parts like the armature and field coils. They would be made to be compatible with your electrical system.

As far as a suitable material for a router table I would say that the desk you show should work fine. Even melamine coated particle board (the common material for Euro kitchen cabinets) works well. It just doesn't wear as well or for as long as high pressure laminate does.
Thanks for the explanations, I don't know if the bosch is equal to 1617, these are the technical data:

Technical data for POF 1200 AE
Technical data
Nominal absorption
1,200 W
Power supplied
650 W
Tool holder (supplied)
6 mm
Tool holder (supplied)
8 mm
Tool holder (supplied)
1/4 "
No load speed
11,000 - 28,000 rpm
Max cutter stroke
55 mm
Weight
3,4 kg

With the budget I have, I have no alternatives, do I ? I like Makitas but they cost too much.

The top of the desk is in fir, therefore a soft wood, on the top I wanted to glue the laminate, did you recommend melamine, are there melamine sheets to be glued ?

I forgot, this is the exploded view of the bosh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I got my Dewalt plunge router on eBay fairly cheap. Sometimes you can find really good deals if you’re patient.

Thank you, the Dewalt are excellent, it can be a good solution, but as you told me it takes a long time, with the used it is a risk, I have no guarantees, I took a look on ebay, there is something in the uk but they are quite expensive even if used, there are models for sale in the united states but the shipping to italy is too high, the einhell tc-ro 1155 is very cheap but at this point the bosch of the einhell is better
 

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Thank you, the Dewalt are excellent, it can be a good solution, but as you told me it takes a long time, with the used it is a risk, I have no guarantees, I took a look on ebay, there is something in the uk but they are quite expensive even if used, there are models for sale in the united states but the shipping to italy is too high, the einhell tc-ro 1155 is very cheap but at this point the bosch of the einhell is better
I see. I got my Dewalt dw616 for $129. It has been a great tool. Well, good luck with your searching. I’d say the Bosch is the way to go. They are good quality machines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I see. I got my Dewalt dw616 for $129. It has been a great tool. Well, good luck with your searching. I’d say the Bosch is the way to go. They are good quality machines.

Great price, but does the Dewalt dw616 work at 120 v ? For Italy it is perhaps not compatible, yes bosh is good but I prefer Dewalt, with the budget that the only solution is bosh. About the laminate to be glued, can you give me some advice? In Italy a sheet in formica costs 132 €, the melamine that they advised me where can I find it ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)

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Sorry I didn't understand, is FRP a carbon fiber ? I took a look at the site but I don't think they ship to Italy, the costs will be very high, from what I have read it is only possible to order samples.

EDIT

I was reading this post: https://www.routerforums.com/2129101-post6.html

The laminate in the video, is it melamine ? Is it okay for my desk top ?
I saw your post about you and and speaking English...
FRP is used on public bathroom walls, in commercial kitchens and restaurant dining areas...
you don't want this...
FRP = Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic... (a really thick melamine)(3~6MM)
the stuff in the video is HPL - High Pressure Laminate...
melamine is a very thin cheap low grade HPL substitute...
IKEA uses lots of it...

tell us about your table in detail....
the top..
purpose..
even a picture will help..
 
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Great price, but does the Dewalt dw616 work at 120 v ? For Italy it is perhaps not compatible, yes bosh is good but I prefer Dewalt, with the budget that the only solution is bosh. About the laminate to be glued, can you give me some advice? In Italy a sheet in formica costs 132 €, the melamine that they advised me where can I find it ?
A router purchased from ebay in the U. S. or Canada would require a transformer to convert the voltage from your 230 volts to our 120 volts. That Bosch may be a little smaller than the 1617 model here. The 1617 comes with 1/2" and 1/4" collets (6.35 mm and 12.7 mm). If the Bosch you are looking at doesn't come with a 12mm collet available for it that may mean that it has a little less power than the 1617. I looked at the specifications for the 1617 on Bosch's web site but they only tell how many horse power it produces which is not as accurate as how many watts it uses.

Melamine coated particle board is the material that is used to make European style kitchen cabinets. It will last several years before the melamine coating starts to wear off the surface. Do the cabinet makers there use high pressure laminate (formica) for the counter tops? If they do then the piece that gets cut out of them for the sink can be used for a small router table top and the laminate is already glued to it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
I saw your post about you and and speaking English...
FRP is used on public bathroom walls, in commercial kitchens and restaurant dining areas...
you don't want this...
FRP = Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic... (a really thick melamine)(3~6MM)
the stuff in the video is HPL - High Pressure Laminate...
melamine is a very thin cheap low grade HPL substitute...
IKEA uses lots of it...

tell us about your table in detail....
the top..
purpose..
even a picture will help..

Thank you so much for your availability, this is a desk measuring 209 x 60 cm, 50 mm thick, the top is in fir wood, in practice they are glued scaffolding boards: https://www.ebay.it/itm/Tavola-in-l...387898?hash=item4b75f2b67a:g:R78AAOSwoVtealAD
Who built the top did a bad job, in the center I have a 5mm depression, so I intend to flatten it and then glue a sheet of laminate on the surface, someone rightly advised me to buy it new which I do before and spend less.

This is the desk, on which I placed a sheet of PVC, it is usually used for floors, it is not aesthetically beautiful but it is very easy to clean and protects the wood: https://www.amazon.it/Tata-Home-Riv...p/B07CMFP4FM/ref=psdc_731806031_t1_B071WWJNV8

As I said I want to glue a melamine sheet on the surface, only on the surface, on the edge I want to leave the wood exposed, the melamine and the ant are the same material ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
A router purchased from ebay in the U. S. or Canada would require a transformer to convert the voltage from your 230 volts to our 120 volts. That Bosch may be a little smaller than the 1617 model here. The 1617 comes with 1/2" and 1/4" collets (6.35 mm and 12.7 mm). If the Bosch you are looking at doesn't come with a 12mm collet available for it that may mean that it has a little less power than the 1617. I looked at the specifications for the 1617 on Bosch's web site but they only tell how many horse power it produces which is not as accurate as how many watts it uses.

Melamine coated particle board is the material that is used to make European style kitchen cabinets. It will last several years before the melamine coating starts to wear off the surface. Do the cabinet makers there use high pressure laminate (formica) for the counter tops? If they do then the piece that gets cut out of them for the sink can be used for a small router table top and the laminate is already glued to it.
Thank you for the explanations, then it is not convenient to buy a 120 v router for Italy.

Maybe 1617 you're talking about is this: https://www.amazon.it/Bosch-1617EVS-2-1-Variable-Speed-Router/dp/B00004TKHV, this is bosh's professional series

The model I'm talking about is the green series, there are two models, from 1200w and 1400w,

Model 1200w

https://www.amazon.it/dp/B000W34ZB0/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=

Model 1400w

https://www.amazon.it/dp/B000W34ZEW/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=

Both models are equipped with 6 mm and 8 mm burr cutters

I wanted to use this cutter to pave: https://www.amazon.it/dp/B00K5RP1DY/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=

Even the ideal would be this but unfortunately it costs 86 euros https://www.amazon.it/dp/B077MSG12L/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=&th=1

A question, the melamine and the ant are the same thing ?

I found these sheets to glue: https://www.mybricoshop.com/pannelli-in-legno-mbs/pannelli-laminati-legno

In the description it says High pressure laminate (HPL) instead in the title it says: Laminates, wood effect, Formica, there is something wrong since HPL and formica are two different materials.
 

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1... in the center I have a 5mm depression, so I intend to flatten it and then glue a sheet of laminate on the surface, someone rightly advised me to buy it new which I do before and spend less.
2... the melamine and the ant are the same material ?
1... a ski is the easy art for this...
buy new??? the router???
2... I'm not sure what the ''ant'' is that you are referring to...
I wouldn't use melamine if it's anything like the melamine we have here... it will telegraph any imperfections and not wear well...

what is your plan for smoothing the top after you flatten it???
how about cleaning the wood and casting a new surface... (self leveling pourable table finishes)
 
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Ciao Ivo,
Ti rispondo in italiano per evitare confusione.
1. Il modello Bosch che descrivi, non é in commercio negli Stati Uniti o in Canada, dunque i nostri amici nordamericani non lo conoscono. Il modello che ti hanno consigliato, in altri paesi é il GOF 1600 - piú potente, piú robusto, ma molto piú caro.
2. Non ho alcun’idea dei prezzi italiani, ma se non c’é grande differenza, ti consiglio il POF 1400, che nonostante sia un modello fai-da-te, ha abbastanza riserva motrice per il tuo progetto ed altro. É quasi equivalente ai due cavalli, molto estimati dai nostri amici. Fará meno sforzo spianando la superficie della tua scrivania.
3. A quanto riguarda precisione, ti avverto che nessuno si fida solamente ai controlli della fresatrice. É necessario fare alcune prove per raggiungere la desiderata precisione. Arrivata alla profonditá di spianatura desiderata, si blocca il movimento verticale tramite la levetta numero 16 nel manuale - la proiezione della fresa rimana fissa.
4. Ambedue modelli sono forniti di tre pinze di serraggio. Ti consiglio di procurati una fresa (per questo progetto) con il gambo da 8 mm. Venduti da varie aziende italiane, ed anche dalla Bosch stessa. Evita le frese solamente d’acciao - molto preferibile quelle rivestite di carburo.
5. La fresa ideale é quella per spianare - puoi trovarne esemplari su Amazon, oppure nei catalogi di CMT o Freud. Per un progetto unico, probabilmente non vale la spesa di una marca buonissima, come quelle italiane, sporatutto perché vuoi riccoprire la superficie con un compensato.
6. A quanto riguarda il compensato, dipende dall’uso e longevitá previsti. Per una scrivania, il melamina sará piú che sufficiente - te ne stuferai, prima che si consumi la superficie. Bada che ci sono vari tipi di melamina - c’é uno sfoglio molto sottile, che viene applicato sotto vacume ad un sottostrato di materia sintetica, ed un tipo piú massicio, che fará al tuo caso. Questo é il High Pressure Laminate descritto dai nostri amici.
7. Se vuoi, é abbastanza facile rifilare precisamente l’eventuale laminato con una fresa speciale, ed anche sagomare il taglio della scrivania a legno madre. Ti avverto che l’uso della fresatrice causa assuefazione.
8. Per ultimo, in inglese, l’incollagio di tavole di legno, va detto “lamination”, come anche laminazione con rivetimento.
Saluti.
Biagio
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
1... a ski is the easy art for this...
buy new??? the router???
2... I'm not sure what the ''ant'' is that you are referring to...
I wouldn't use melamine if it's anything like the melamine we have here... it will telegraph any imperfections and not wear well...

what is your plan for smoothing the top after you flatten it???
how about cleaning the wood and casting a new surface... (self leveling pourable table finishes)
Yes, a sled like this:

https://ibb.co/wQY24nn

I don't have a router, I have to buy it for the first time, among other things I also need a circular saw to cut the panels to build the sled.

The ant I mean this, is a very hard sheet, I think it is built with phenolic resin:

https://ibb.co/7vRRzPp

https://ibb.co/7vRRzPp

https://ibb.co/4NDvBXv

This laminate, on the other hand, looks like plastic, is very soft and breaks immediately:

https://ibb.co/wRC1KhN

https://ibb.co/HYNtjFx

After smoothing the top I want to finish it with abrasion paper.

If I thought about covering the top with epoxy resin, they say it is not very resistant, what do you think ? I had made the calculations: 4.598000000000001 + 0.6897000000000001 = 5.2877, I need about 5.287 liters to cover the 5 mm depression, https://www.resinpro.it/calcolo-consumo/

Can I use resin without flattening the table?
 
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