Hi Doug,,,, I will let ya know by this weekend,,,, I ordered 3 of them to set up with custom made large base plates for sign making,... But I expect them to work out just fine,,, I believe that they are about the same ones ya get from Harbor Freight,,, and for what I use them for,,,, they work out great,,, I figure I would use them till they broke down and just toss em in the trash can,,, but so far,,, I have not had to make the ol' grenade toss with one yet.