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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
pianoman8 said:
I really liked your post, and even tried to download and print it. However, with the exception of the first one, the picture attachments wouldn't copy to the Word Perfect document that I was creating, although they downloaded and displayed nicely on the monitor. The post is not too helpful without the pictures.

Could you post this information again in a form that can be downloaded and printed?

Thanks either way.
Hi,
I'm not to sure what happened when you attemped to download the images but they are just simple .jpg images. I would say try again and see if it works this time. I am not a Word Perfect user but I would think if one image worked the others should as well.

How did you attemp the download? I'm a netscape user so if that is what you are using to download I can help you with that (if that is the problem).

Let us know how things go.

Ed
 

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Still need help

reible said:
If you have been reading posts here you will have heard a lot about this subject. A lot of you maybe thinking about trying a project but they all look to hard. And then there is that trying to figure out what bit and what template guide to use…….. “Now I made the pattern a ¼” larger so I’ll pick out the…… Oh to heck with it let’s see what on TV”.


I still need help. I am so new to routers that I do not understand all I read in the forum. For instance is the template guide bushing part of the router bit or is it a separate fixture. Your help is appreciated.
:confused:
 

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The bushing is not part of the bit. Bushings are sold seperate of the bits.

A little time spent browsing the stuff at oakparks website should familiarize you with the different router tools and accessories.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Ralph6534 said:
reible said:
If you have been reading posts here you will have heard a lot about this subject. A lot of you maybe thinking about trying a project but they all look to hard. And then there is that trying to figure out what bit and what template guide to use…….. “Now I made the pattern a ¼” larger so I’ll pick out the…… Oh to heck with it let’s see what on TV”.


I still need help. I am so new to routers that I do not understand all I read in the forum. For instance is the template guide bushing part of the router bit or is it a separate fixture. Your help is appreciated.
:confused:
You know none of us started out knowing about routers, but asking questions, watching shows like the Router Workshop, New Yankee Workshop, taking trips to the library where you can get books on routeing, or check out the magazines is a good start. Of course this fourm is another good place, a lot of helpful people.

I would also look for the thread about other on-line stores, some of which would be more then will to send you free catalogs, and as has been suggested even look at catalogs helps you learn.

Feel free to keep asking.

Ed
 

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I would like to send congratulations to Reible for his effort in explaining how to obtain the off-set when using the guides. He has certainly attracted a great deal of interest. If I were to do the same I could only do it in metric as it is over 35 years since we made the change over, here in Australia , though I fully understand the imperial set up as I was brought up using it I find it easier to use the metric measurement.

I have been using template guides for years in fact I consider them to be the most important accessory we received with the router at the time of purchase.

We have to find a more accurate method of producing the elliptical shaped template and I suppose this is what puts many router users 'off' when it comes to template making.

Here is a simple solution to the problem.
Visit your local craft store and select an elliptical cut-out shape near to the dimensiond you require and use that as your pattern to produce a smaller shape with the aid of a template guide and straight cutter. If the original pattern is too large use the new template to rout another and so and so on till you get near to what tou are looking for.

Not so simple method
Rout an elliptical shape with an 'Elliptical cutting Jig' Bought or simply make your own. One of the problems you will find is that you will only be able to produce a shape that will be greater than you require. Ok then simply produce one smaller using the method above. That is what I have been doing for years.

Once we have mastered the preparation of the template we are then able to produce Elliptical Trinket Boxes as shown in enclosed pic 180mm x 100mm x 35mm approx

Sorry I Will have to produce a new posting to submit photograph
 

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Ed and Tom
Thanks so much for your helpful advice, much appreciated. I haven't done much template work at all, but am interested to try more. Keep explaining things please, there's always so much to learn. So much wood, so little time!

~Julie~
P.S.Tom, your box is beautiful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
template tom said:
I would like to send congratulations to Reible for his effort in explaining how to obtain the off-set when using the guides. He has certainly attracted a great deal of interest. If I were to do the same I could only do it in metric as it is over 35 years since we made the change over, here in Australia , though I fully understand the imperial set up as I was brought up using it I find it easier to use the metric measurement.

I have been using template guides for years in fact I consider them to be the most important accessory we received with the router at the time of purchase.

We have to find a more accurate method of producing the elliptical shaped template and I suppose this is what puts many router users 'off' when it comes to template making.

Here is a simple solution to the problem.
Visit your local craft store and select an elliptical cut-out shape near to the dimensiond you require and use that as your pattern to produce a smaller shape with the aid of a template guide and straight cutter. If the original pattern is too large use the new template to rout another and so and so on till you get near to what tou are looking for.

Not so simple method
Rout an elliptical shape with an 'Elliptical cutting Jig' Bought or simply make your own. One of the problems you will find is that you will only be able to produce a shape that will be greater than you require. Ok then simply produce one smaller using the method above. That is what I have been doing for years.

Once we have mastered the preparation of the template we are then able to produce Elliptical Trinket Boxes as shown in enclosed pic 180mm x 100mm x 35mm approx

Sorry I Will have to produce a new posting to submit photograph

Thanks Tom,

If someone is interested in the table I produced in metric sizes give me the bit sizes and template guide sizes and I will make one.

For those of you new to metric conversion just remember 1" = 25.4mm. Tom's box (and may I add it looks great, tell us about the finish) is just over 7" x almost 4" x 1 3/8" For those going the other way the daffy duck hole is (3" x 5") is about 75mm x 125mm (all dim. rounded)

I personal have found a lot of circles, ovals, and curved shapes are in your house ready to be traced. That oval tin of candy, the cup, tin can (take off the lid and squish and it's an oval). They also make templates of a lot of shapes so check the catalogs. Combine things to make odd shapes, make drawings free hand be creative.

Done feel creative to day? Then go to:
www.google.com
select image, turn on safe search, type in oval. That should keep you busy for a while.

Ed
 

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From Ed "For those of you new to metric conversion just remember 1" = 25.4mm. Tom's box (and may I add it looks great, tell us about the finish) is just over 7" x almost 4" x 1 3/8" For those going the other way the daffy duck hole is (3" x 5") is about 75mm x 125mm (all dim. rounded"

The box was cut from MDF and was simple painted. I have also produced them in solid timber. Just to get others thinking how it was done I will say that the only tool I used was the router.
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
template tom said:
From Ed "For those of you new to metric conversion just remember 1" = 25.4mm. Tom's box (and may I add it looks great, tell us about the finish) is just over 7" x almost 4" x 1 3/8" For those going the other way the daffy duck hole is (3" x 5") is about 75mm x 125mm (all dim. rounded"

The box was cut from MDF and was simple painted. I have also produced them in solid timber. Just to get others thinking how it was done I will say that the only tool I used was the router.
Tom
Tom,

let me guess, you used a template??????

May be you would care to share the details in a lesson form for us? I think I know how I might do such a project but I would like to here how you really did it. How about other readers, what to know Tom's secret?????

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Amateur night pattern basics pt1

This might be sort of a step back in the series on template guide issues but since I have had a couple of more basic questions this might be of some help.



The use of templates or patterns let you route irregular or straight lines into or through your work piece. They can help rout or trim edges, or help clean-up rough sawn profiles. They help do special joints; they help you do things like set in hinges or other hardware. Then there are inlays and well the list goes on.



Maybe you have no idea where to start with this style of routing or what you need to get started. After you have finished this article go back and revisit some of the other posts for more ideas and see if they make more sense now.



For the most basic of operations you need your router and a bit. If you have a plunge router and plunge bit you have an even better set-up. The next add on are the template guides. Depending on your router manufacture they come in all sorts of sizes and mounting styles.



I have an old Sears’s router and the mounting method and sizes of template guides were very limited. I chose to buy a sub-base (that is the often black plastic piece on the bottom or the router) so I could use set of template guides that fit Porter Cable routers. This is some times referred to as the PC or Porter Cable standard. In general this means a 1 3/16 outside diameter two-piece threaded guide bushing. The second piece of the two-piece is a locknut that secures the guide in place. The sub-bases are often listed as universal meaning they fit many routers so there is a good chance they will have one for your router if that is what you choose to do.



The template guide bushings come in various sizes, normal measured by the outside diameter (OD) of the barrel. The inside diameter determines the maximum size bit to be used and keep in mind the bit needs to have some space around it so the bit size is less then the inside diameter (ID). A typical set might have OD’s from 5/16” to 1” or more. They also can be purchased one at a time so you add to your collection.



Next is the issue of barrel length. This is basically the length the barrel protrudes below the surface of the sub-base. Some makers of template guides have various barrel lengths in a set from less they ¼” to 1” (that is as long as I’ve seen). These guides are often used for that manufactures fixtures (dovetail jig, hinge template, stairs template). If you can it is best to look for a set that has all the barrel lengths about .234”. Then ¼” material (or .250”) then works for making the patterns.



Whatever the barrel length or pattern thickness the guide-bushing barrel should not touch the work surface and routers sub-base should be sitting flat on the template.



Cont. pt 2
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Amateur night pattern basics pt2

How about material for making patterns? It is often easies to use ¼” thick material, very simply it is easier to work with, easier to sand to correct ruff surfaces or miss cuts. If you want to test this out take a piece of ¼” plywood and attach it to a piece of ¾” pine. Take a handsaw/jigsaw/?? and cut though both pieces take them apart and sand until smooth. The thinner piece was faster and easier right?



A lot of materials will work, plastics, plywood, hardboard, solid wood, in fact most people chose different materials for different projects. I tend to use plastics for things I want to have around for a long time and hardboard for a lot of the other projects. Hardboard has the advantage of being cheap, I get a 4’ x 4’ piece and cut pieces out for a project and store the rest. (I should point out that I combine solid wood to make the pattern in to fixtures.) Others use only plywood or only plastic so the choice is yours and you will only know what is best for you after doing some work with it.



You can cut patterns using the router, jigsaws, Dremel tools, coping saws, hole saws, drills, and any other tool you chose to use. Depending on the method used to cut the pattern you might be able to use it as-is or additional shaping and smoothing maybe required. If the surface is ruff and uneven the template guide will follow the pattern and produce the same effect on your work piece. Since you will often use the template to make several of something it pays to get it right so you have less work to do on the work piece when you are finished routing.



You will also see people using bits called “pattern bits”; they have a bearing(s) at the end of the cutter, or at the top of the cutter, or even above and below the cutting area. The bearings are the same diameter as the bit so as the bearing follows the pattern the cutter produces the same edge as the pattern. If you use these bits then the template is subjected to additional wear and maybe even burning or trimming because of misadjusted heights. These bits tend to be costly, the bearings can overheat and or freeze and could add addition cost over the life of the bit (the bearings are replaceable). (Think about the bearing rotating at 28,000 rpm’s and having it contacts the stationary template where it will touch and stop… really something hey?) Please don’t get me wrong the pattern bits offer a lot of advantages as well and are a good investment. What I’m trying to point out is that the template guides wear the pattern out a lot less then a spinning bearing.



I hope this helped with some of the more basic issues. If you still have questions there are a lot of good answers at the routerfourm……





Here is a closing thought for you:

Routers do not make square corners but patterns can.



Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Amateurs Night more template guide stuff

For tonight project let us say that you have decided to make a document frame so you can display that nice award you were given by the Daffy Duck Association. Your birdhouse won first place at the national convention. Good Job! (Again this might be an exercise best carried out in your mind.)



The award had a nice border of raised gold; radius corners and you figure out that you want the frame to have a 5/8” radius corner to show off the gold border. (See attachment 1)



Since you are going to win again next year and for a lot of years to come you want to make a bunch of these frames. Time for a template! You are in a hurry so you make up a rectangular template of the correct size and put some scrape stock in and route away… You picked out a 1” template guide and ¼” bit. When you finish the first corner you see a problem. You forgot about that 5/8” radius corner and you have well a very small radius. (See attachment 2)



OK this is not to bad, so you make a new template and add that 5/8” radius, now you have it… More chips fly as you do another test. Well you have a bigger radius now, but it still doesn’t look right and when you check it is not what you expected. (See attachment 3)



What happen here! Then you think about what you are doing and it comes to you! The template guide puts the bit 3/8” from the template so in order to get the 5/8” radius you will need to add the 3/8” to the 5/8” and make the template with a 1” radius. Now before you look at the next attachment, are you right? OK now take a look. (See attachment 4)



Great work! It is now to late to do the frames so you clean up and days go by, then a week, then one day you decide today is the day, you are going to finish that project. But wait did I use the ¾” template guide or was it… Well here is the ¾ template guide and here is the ¼” bit, that must be it, hey it will work, I know my router stuff…. Now before you look at the last attachment, will this work? Is that your final answer? Ok take a look at attachment 5.



How well did you do? Do you know why this happened? If you wanted to use the ¾” template guide and ¼” bit what radius do you need?



Remember to mark your templates with the bit size and the bushing size.



Ed
 

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Consideration will have to be given as to what cutters and template guides are used Another problem that will have to be solved is how is the material held secure during the process. What other tools and machinery will also be required.
 

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reible said:
Tom,

let me guess, you used a template??????

May be you would care to share the details in a lesson form for us? I think I know how I might do such a project but I would like to here how you really did it. How about other readers, what to know Tom's secret?????

Ed
You are correct just a simple template what has to be considered is the cutters used the varous template guides required and how the material is secured during the process maybe too long a posting to submit here unless you may have an easier method Ed to produce the box
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
template tom said:
You are correct just a simple template what has to be considered is the cutters used the varous template guides required and how the material is secured during the process maybe too long a posting to submit here unless you may have an easier method Ed to produce the box
Tom
Tom,
Maybe you could not get into all the details and don't try to do it all in one post. Make it more of "mental routing" then actual. Details like bits you use could be in a list:
spiral 12mm
bowl bit ??
I don't think you need actual dimensions or shapes people can do that on their own.

You could even make it real simple like "I do the outside first" etc without many details then people can say "how did you clamp that oval?" a more interactive posting. Just a few thought I had.

Ed
 

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reible said:
Tom,
Maybe you could not get into all the details and don't try to do it all in one post. Make it more of "mental routing" then actual. Details like bits you use could be in a list:
spiral 12mm
bowl bit ??
I don't think you need actual dimensions or shapes people can do that on their own.

You could even make it real simple like "I do the outside first" etc without many details then people can say "how did you clamp that oval?" a more interactive posting. Just a few thought I had.

Ed
Here are the first two stages Pic 1 Stage 1 with stage 2 pic 2
 

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Re: RouterForums Amateur Night

Rayinthe UK - I did a page a little while ago where I put together some tips intended for beginners - - hope it's not too basic and the emphasis is on safety.

Ray
Thanks Ray
Your Tips were GREAT

Since I am an amateur, I have really loved this posting. If I am readings correctly - I owe reliable a great debt of gratitude

as well as everyone who has contributed to this.

Ed Baggett
(I was a credit manager and one of my fellow workers named me Bagman and it stuck).
 
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