Thank you for the review Nick . I bought a General saw but sometimes I wish I bought Saw Stops industrial Cabinet saw . It looks like a quality product from what I've seen at Lee Valley . Like there dust collection system to

 

Nice overview, Nick. Glad to see that you have jumped right in and started contributing.

 

I'm sure liking the cast iron wing that fits Jessems router lifts . To bad they don't offer it on there cabinet saws

 

I purchased a SawStop contractor's saw several years ago for the guys in the carpenter's shop at work. Because of my interest in woodworking and nice toys, I helped with the assembly. Never have I seen instructions and parts done better. I was also impressed with the general quality of the machine itself, especially the fence.

I'm happy with my Unisaw and will probably keep it for life. But if I were buying, I'd buy a SawStop. Not just for the safety aspects, it's just a quality piece of machinery.

 

Andy does your Unisaw have both tilt and height adjustment cranks on the front ?
That's a design I wish General and SawStop would have implemented

 

saw the problem right off....

no sawdust...
all spit and polish too...


.

 

Wow, very nice, Nick. I wasn't aware of the router table option. It looks like you have it on a mobile base. So how easy is it to the setup around your shop?

 

Hi Rob - This picture is a couple of years old and my garage is now dedicated to being a full time woodworking shop. However, to answer your question the mobile base makes it very easy to maneuver. :wink:

 

I would still buy another Unisaw or maybe a Powermatic 66. I don't deny that the Sawstop might be the right piece of equipment for many applications but I alone use my Uni and I know better than to stick my fingers into the blade. It was a really good review Nick and I'm glad to hear that the experience was pleasureable.

 

Chuck: everybody knows not to stick their fingers into the saw-blade, but it happens and that is why they call it an accident. I nicked a finger tip on my UNISAW and went for a few stitches. When I got back home I went into the shop, unplugged the saw and repeated that mornings actions. I was doing everything "by the book" and still can not figure out how I managed to nip the finger. I still love my unisaw too.

 

Chuck, I respect experience, and the notion that "I know better than to stick my fingers into the blade." I doubt many woodworkers would disagree with that. At least this study deserves some consideration:

Table saw injuries: epidemiology and a proposal for preventive measures

Quoting:

"Experience does not seem to deter injury either. In one sample of 1,000 subjects, 37% of injured woodworkers reported 10+ years of experiences. Perhaps extended exposure leads to complacency or overconfidence. It is also possible that woodworkers with more experience perform more intricate or precision cuts that would necessitate the removal of the blade guard. Education also seems to have little effect on injury risk."

Stuff like this makes me consider a Sawstop, in addition to their apparently great quality.

 

I have been using a Table Saw for close to 50 years going back to when I was a kid working in my dads shop. I have to admit to having the upmost respect for the blade on a table saw (second to the shaper cutter). I doubt that I will ever discard my PM66 Table Saw or any of my Powermatic or Delta/Rockwell US manufactured tools for that matter. The shifting from US made to Asian is just something that bugs the h**l out of me. That being said, if there were some type of reasonably priced, "quality" retrofit kit for older saws whether it be the SawStop or the newer Bosch system I would seriously consider one because accidents do happen. A couple of years ago good friend of mine did some very major damage to his hand just a few months before he retired and his quality of life just isn't something that I would care to experience,

 

I don't disagree with that Rob. I spent 25 years falling trees in the forests of British Columbia. The same exact statistics applied to fallers. The most accident prone were fallers with less than 5 years experience and more than 20. I have a few aches and pains as a result of a few bad choices. The part that irritates me is that the owner/ inventor is trying to ram Sawstop down our throats through legislation changes. That is something I have a big problem with. If I were a contractor I would probably put a Sawstop on the job as a butt covering exercise. As a hobbyist who knows how to prevent injury I resent the kind of control the Sawstop inventor is trying to exert. Maybe some of it is genuine concern but I suspect it is mostly greed. I am a much more strongly believer in proper education to avoid the problem. From my experience, and I have quite a bit, when you try to convince someone that all the danger has been eliminated you are truly in danger. The idea that something can be made idiot proof is a myth. My response to people who believe that is that you simply have not met every idiot yet.

One of the issues with this piece of equipment is that it gives a sense of security that may lead to procedural failures with other types of machines that don't have similar technology like drill presses, band saws, routers, jointers, and lathes.The right safety attitude will protect you in the use of all machines and the idea that no matter what stupid thing you do with this machine might possibly bleed over (not exactly intending a pun there) into the use of other machines is of deep concern to me.

Someone posted here about two years ago that he was having a problem that a table saw would have solved easily. Then he admitted that he had had a table saw but got rid of it. When Iasked why he said it was because he had lost parts of finges on it. When he gave the details he had been using a GRRRipper to rip a board with when something went wrong and it flipped over and his fingers went into the saw. Yet everyone else who has used the GRRipper has said that it is the absolute safest way to move material past a saw blade. Obviously not infallible according to that member. The way to improve your odds of not having accidents is to analyze your work methods for procedural flaws, eliminate any you percieve, and then to focus on what is happening in front of you. And when I say focus I'm talking about the kind of focus your cat has when it sees a bird in the tree just outside your window.

I'm not totally convinced yet that ramming a hot dog into a saw blade is the same as sticking your finger into one so for the meantime I would prefer to implement the time tested work safe procedures that I've been taught. As I said earlier, my rant is no slight on the review being given in this thread, but it still pays to work safe instead of putting all your faith into safety technology instead.

 

The way to improve your odds of not having accidents is to analyze your work methods for procedural flaws, eliminate any you perceive, and then to focus on what is happening in front of you. And when I say focus I'm talking about the kind of focus your cat has when it sees a bird in the tree just outside your window.

I agree 100% with this portion of Chuck's post. Owning a SawStop will never take away any of the respect that any type of table saw or of any other piece of equipment that is being used by a woodworker that understands that proper safety procedure is the #1 priority with each and every cut made. Accidents happen. So if one is willing to pay for the technology that will prevent the loss of a finger for that just-in-case moment he should be more that pleased to do so in what boils down to a relatively "cheap" insurance policy for a high-quality working saw.

 

I have been using the Sawstop for over two and half years now. I have a real hard time cranking the blade up & down.
have blown the dust off the gears and put graphite on them but no help. Every so often when I start up the motor it makes
a strange sound so I shut it off and restart it. This can happen two or three times a day. The other problem is the riving
knife is not lined up with the blade so when you make a cut the board pinches on the knife. I have a 12" sears table saw I bought
in the late 70's that preforms much better. I bought the Sawstop for the safety feature I haven't tried that out yet.

 

Have you discussed these issues with SawStop ??

 

Nick.....Congrats on your new saw..... Your review sounds like what I would have written, except for your extention table issue....
I bought a Pro series SawStop in July... The quality, assembly instructions, and layout of fasteners and parts, is nothing like I've ever seen.... Fit and finish is absolutely beautiful.... The cast iron top has no machining marks, and looks like stainless steel ....Alignment of the miter slot and fence were spot-on ......
The only issue I had was I forgot to take the override keys out of the parts pack, and they went to the landfill before I missed them....
I sent an email to SawStop that morning, and in the afternoon a really nice guy called me and said he was overnighting me a new set...
I bought mine from Peachtree Woodworking, who delivered it right to the door of my shop, unloaded it, and took most of the cardboard with them....

 

It is all good. Thanks for the review. It only takes money, that I only wish I had for it all.
John

 

Nice to read a thorough review like this I considered this saw, but didn't really want another contractor saw. But their cabinet model, a good as it looked, was just too far out of my price range and I chose a Laguna instead. I hope Bosch will license their safety mechanism at a reasonable price because I think it is a good idea. My main concern is that I have created a small park for a back yard and make lots of things with woods that would set off the saw. Knowing me, I'd forget to turn off the stop mechanism and blow $130-150 each time. Too much for me. I use both a Gripper and lots of pre planning every cut I make to avoid setting up a dangerous situation. For example, I've lowered my router table and placed it so it serves as an infeed table for the saw. I'm unlikely to replace the Laguna in whatever lifespan I have left. Beautiful saw, however, and very well made.

 

Chuck expressed a frustration I share with the Sawstop people's urge to dominate and legislate their way to financial success. Early on, I was interested in the technology and was on one of their mailing lists. What I inferred from their communications was that they were determined theirs would be the one and only solution -- enforced by legislation. They "helped" legislators to write code that would preclude any manufacturer BUT Sawstop from being able to meet new safety regulations. The principals of Sawstop were lawyers, not woodworkers or tool manufacturers. My impression was that they wanted to force saw companies to pay $150 royalty per saw to them for using the system. Needless to say, this would absolutely destroy affordable table saws as they currently exist in the USA.

I hoped for another large company to come up with an alternative. I think Bosch has done so. I won't be looking at Sawstop any time soon. I haven't forgotten how they were in the early years. I doubt seriously if they've changed. Corporate culture goes right to the DNA of most companies. I'll check out Bosch's entry into this category, which should be available by Spring. My grandkids are getting old enough to learn serious tool use. Of course I'd prefer something that is safer than what we had coming up -- but it should be a choice, not something legislated for one company's profiteering.

 

+1 with both Chuck & Roloff. Have one of the last US made Unisaws, 5 hp and Bieseimier with router in wing table. Has been great, at the time was a great price, and will certainly outlive me.
Sawstop and their relentless push to drive everyone else out, including now they have sued Bosch to keep their technology off the market, is just corporate greed and everything that is ugly about American corporations in the 21st century at its worst. I refuse to knowingly support their program, no matter how good, and they are very good, their products may be. My next purchase will be a Bosch contractor saw, if it survives the Sawstop gauntlet.

 

The Sawstop concept is great. Glad you are happy with it. I've had my Delta for so long I would be reluctant to replace it. But it would not be as gentle on that "hot dog" in the Sawstop demo's.

 

Hi Nick, I got a SawStop several years ago (3 hp version). I love it. I do a lot of very fine cuts so I replaced the fence with an Incra that allows for micro adjustments. Occasionally it doesn't capture any of the dust because I forget to attach the 4' hose. Big Dummy! Other than that it is a great tool that I use every day. Malcolm / Kentucky USA

 

Chuck and others, I'm still on the fence (pardon the pun) regarding SawStop's business practice. I'm not thrilled with the lawyer-up approach, and I believe strongly that U.S. patent law and trolling are out of control. I also don't like pushing legal mandates for the technology. You all have strong arguments on this point. On the other hand, I believe SawStop invented a novel device. I'm glad they invented it. They didn't patent something silly (Apple's "swipe gesture" comes to mind) and have a right to protect that patent.

Whether their invention actually increases safety is another question. I suspect it does, even accounting for risk compensation. That people take more risk and thus are overall less safe was a common argument against seat belts, bike helmets, motorcycle helmets, etc., before they became pretty much accepted. For this case, only time and statistics will tell.

Anyway, the topic here is a saw review, which I believe Nick did a nice job. Nick, sorry for going off-topic, and I hope others don't read all this and restrain from reviewing their new SawStop saws, or whatever :frown:

 

Chuck and others, I'm still on the fence (pardon the pun) regarding SawStop's business practice. I'm not thrilled with the lawyer-up approach, and I believe strongly that U.S. patent law and trolling are out of control. I also don't like pushing legal mandates for the technology. You all have strong arguments on this point. On the other hand, I believe SawStop invented a novel device. I'm glad they invented it. They didn't patent something silly (Apple's "swipe gesture" comes to mind) and have a right to protect that patent.

Whether their invention actually increases safety is another question. I suspect it does, even accounting for risk compensation. That people take more risk and thus are overall less safe was a common argument against seat belts, bike helmets, motorcycle helmets, etc., before they became pretty much accepted. For this case, only time and statistics will tell.

Anyway, the topic here is a saw review, which I believe Nick did a nice job. Nick, sorry for going off-topic, and I hope others don't read all this and restrain from reviewing their new SawStop saws, or whatever :frown:

agreed...

 

Guys I can't see why someone couldn't design better a system that only retracts the blade down in milliseconds like it does now , but not stopping the blade destroying it .
I think the blade only stops after its lowered and lodges into the catradge destroying both the blade and the the catridge . Where's the threat once the blades retracted down. Am I missing something ?

 

Ok I'm wrong , I watched the video again and the blade stops before it retracts down . I really think theres a better way though.
Retract it down in a millisecond and the threats gone IMO

 

Agreed Rick. I did read somewhere that Bosch is collaborating with other manufacturers on their safety system.

 

Nick I hope I didn't offend you regarding your purchase . It looks like one heck of a nice table saw and I really enjoy reading members reviews here .
I also feel people should be able to voice there opinion whether it's a positive or a negative.
I have a fairly new General International cabinet saw and it has a few things I'd change on it if I was the engineer who designed it .
As I mentioned if I could do it all over I'd buy sawstops cabinet saw as I like there dust collection system , plus the not loosing a finger part

 

Dear Rick,

I noticed that you've made over 6000 posts. As a trend setter, do you think you could set an example by NOT making the most common spelling errors in the English language: "their" instead of "there," "you're" instead of "your" and "losing" instead of "loosing?" I see the same errors time and time again in Face Book, forums, letters and even in articles where proofreaders are supposed to catch those errors. It would make a difference.

 

Never any offense taken by NickyP

It's always good to see, hear (as in listening), and ponder others POV. I try and live my life without malice and truly believe everyone has the entitlement of their own beliefs without interference from others as long as it is lawful and not hurting anybody with the understanding that certain beliefs can cause conflict. Bottom line regarding SawStop - I (myself) am very happy with the company, their operation, their products, and most of all their customer service. I hope you enjoyed my review.

 

I also think the write up on the saw was great and am impressed by the tool. Not so much on the company mindset. I remember when the idea first came out and the reason the major players (Delta, Powermatic & etc) wouldn't buy in. It wasn't the technology but the so called "inventors" demands that soured them on the idea. Perhaps the folks who really invented the skin sensing technology used by Sawstop should have joined the legal fray. Wish I could go back and sue over ideas I had but other people followed through on. LOL Sawstop's patent should run out in 2019 so it will be interesting to see what the other saw manufactures do then.

 

Yes I know what you mean , as I was devastated when the pet rock came out . Guy made a million and I had the idea first lol

 

CableGuy, someone did: Bosch. Each cartridge can be used TWICE. It doesn't destroy the blade and the cartridges are a lot cheaper than SawStop's. They're using technology they invented for airbag use.

The SawStop people aren't stupid enough to think any court will find for them. If they're suing, they're fighting for time. They're not just protecting their invention (by the way, I'd say that a few elevator companies could sue THEM - they're using a capacitor to trigger a blade movement mechanism; the principle was in use in elevator buttons decades ago).

I really really really hate when patent trolling emerges victorious over a marketplace, replacing market forces with legislative bluster.

It's inevitable that Bosch will win. Patent attorneys in your family might disagree, of course.
Or - just read about the triggering mechanisms in both and make up your own mind.

 

There are only so many ways to trigger an action electronically. Prior art does count. Corporate DNA will reveal itself. In the earliest days of personal computing, a college professor patented the use of color as a pedagogical tool. The Patent Office bought that until the first time it was challenged by an entity with deep pockets. History will repeat itself.

Meanwhile, woodworkers will be aware there are more choices - being kept off the market by legal finagling, not engineering. The longer this suit goes on, the more woodworkers will become aware of it. That's not a bad thing.