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Rick
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Guys and gals, I am making some changes in my gym , and installing a product called StoreWall in order to organize my gyms bars and accessories etc .
This is why I’m liking the product


Here’s are the racks on my back wall at present , which I’m removing as my options are limited . I like the mirror, as it makes the room look larger , but not at the expense of limiting my options .


Below is my photoshopped version of what I’d like to do . The yellow is the exposed perimeter of the wood that the StoreWall is attached too . I’m thinking when it’s full to expect close to 300 pounds of weight including the boards and StoreWall .

So I’m going to need to run a 2x4 horizontally across the top and bottom approx 13’ , then have vertical 2x4 on the ends and in the middle , so the French cleats on the StoreWall have a place to anchor . They have there own proprietary French cleat system .
I would like the floating effect , but worse case I could have vertical boards from the floor to the stud at the ceiling level , paint them white so you don’t notice them , and then attach boards to those . But ideally I want the floating look .

I have had limited success with Tapcon cement screws. In the past I drilled a bigger hole than neccesary ,and put a lead insert into the wall first , then drove the Tapcon into the lead insert . You couldn’t move it when it was done that way .
I was thinking about measuring the cinderblock and drilling in the hollow parts instead . This way I could use something that expands .

But now I see these , which would be used in a solid part of the cinderblock .
Is anyone familiar with them ?
I would have to counter sink them into the 2x4, as they it’s neccesary to have them flush with the board so there not in the way of the StoreWall or cleats
 

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Rick
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
This is a product I have never heard of ,and I see it’s available at Amazon

 

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Rick - those anchors work like this: as you tighten the nut, it pulls the bolt against the sleeve and the flared part at the bottom expands the sleeve so that it wedges against the sides. Having said that, I've used them in a poured concrete floor (under my shed) but I'm not sure if they would work in cinder block. I would think that the block would crack under pressure, but I stand to be corrected.
 

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They make the same thing as a threaded insert, Rick.
https://www.confast.com/products-single-expansion
https://www.confast.com/products-double-expansion

Double Expansion Anchor – This anchor is designed for use in softer more suspect type base material where the holding values may be questionable. The double expansion anchor is designed so that the entire length of the anchor body expands and pushes against the side wall of the base material. This wide range of expansion gives the anchor a much better chance of obtaining holding values in most types of base materials.
 

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Rick
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Vince , I’m with you on the brittleness of cinderblock too . It’s an old house to boot , so there old blocks .

Dan , the double expansion look like the win . Now to source them in the great white north
 

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Rick
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Try someplace that deals with the concrete trade...maybe Acklands(?).
Or BC Fasteners.

Maybe these?
Sleeve Anchors - Flat Head Zinc - BC Fasteners & Tools
Not quite what you wanted, but close?

National Concrete Accessories have them...
https://www.nca.ca/product/exp-shields-double-516-x-58-9162
Thank Dan . I found them on Amazon.ca . One box was over $200, but I found a 12 pack for under $40. I may need two boxes though .
I’m not in a rush , so I could contact NCA

https://www.amazon.ca/Double-Expansion-Shields-Pack-12/dp/B00AM0WK1U

I’ll keep my options open though . Going with a larger hole to fit a lead insert , and then putting in a Tarcon has worked well in the past . A pita , but it worked
 

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Rick Rick Rick this is why your shop isn't insulated. You would get a work out if you would insulate your shop. What are we going to do with you??? :wink:
 

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Rick
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Rick Rick Rick this is why your shop isn't insulated. You would get a work out if you would insulate your shop. What are we going to do with you??? :wink:
I agree Don , as I’m a pro at starting ten projects at once, but not completing any .
I’ve been on and off my bathroom Reno for a decade , and I’m waiting for parts for the gym, so I sidetracked myself and went back to the bathroom . All the while I have to hustle and get a pit dig so a sump pump can be installed before the next flood .
Springs a coming!
 

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Rick, I agree with Vince the Quick Bolt type are not for Cinder block.
If you drill into the void of the block it will tend to blow out the backside inside the block. If you drill into the partition ,the same thing, The mortar joint will hold a hole better because it has the 2 ends of the block to hold from blowing out.

When I was working we did a lot of that but used 3/8" diam. toggle bolts. The wings on the toggles are wide enough to span any blow out and suck the 2X4 tight to the wall. You are going to be hanging a lot of weight on there . Are you going to screw a 3/4" Plywood backboard to the 2X4's to mount the Store Wall or does it attach to the 2X4's?

Here are some 5" long ones, you will need these long ones because you are mounting thru 1 1/2"board + 1 1/4' block+ have to fold up the wings to get them thru the 1" hole in the block.
https://www.amazon.com/BC-3780TBCR-...id=1515914659&sr=8-8&keywords=3/8+toggle+bolt

Herb
 

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Rick Rick Rick this is why your shop isn't insulated. You would get a work out if you would insulate your shop. What are we going to do with you??? :wink:
I think Rick has his priorities in order. First order of business is to find a woman who will put up with him before all hope is lost. He doesn't want to spend his twilight years in the cold frozen north all alone. To that end, he needs to be in top physical condition to offset the inevitable ravages of age. Once he has secured the affections of a female, maybe she will help him insulate.
 

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I also agree with not using the expanding bolt. My experience with them is that they loosen easily. I've seen pretty good performance lately from just using Tapcon screws in cinder block. You could also use them in conjunction with a concrete adhesive caulk or epoxy for a little insurance. Keep in mind Rick that about 95% of the weight you'll have is straight shear force (going straight downward) and only maybe 5% is angular force wanting to pull away from the wall. You can improve the ratio by hanging the heaviest objects at the bottom of the panel and keeping everything as close to the wall as possible.
 
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Rick,

First, let me tell you that my dear friend Hugh Johnson invented "Space Wall". Space Wall is the original product that what you're using is a copy of. Space Wall is made of MDF or HDF and needs a moisture barrier between it and an exterior wall made of masonry or concrete. Just to keep this a Router Subject, this is manufactured using a series of routers that cuts all T grooves in a full sheet in one pass. Hugh's business uses Onsrund Diamond Cutter Bits and they use a lot of them!
My employees and I have tons of needs to securely attach "things" to a wide variety of wall types. It used to be frustrating, until my brother (a soon-to-retire commercial electrician) taught me about "TOGGLER HIGH PERFORMANCE ANCHORS". The benefits of using these is AMAZING! Once you have used these and see the obvious advantages, you will feel silly using anything else - I promise. I get them at Lowe's and they're probably sold in other stores, as well. They are not very expensive and I'm pretty sure these could be installed by anyone - quite easily. Go to Toggler & Wej-It Fastening Systems - the original wedge anchor for further info.

I hope this helps!

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia
 

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Rick
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I think Rick has his priorities in order. First order of business is to find a woman who will put up with him before all hope is lost. He doesn't want to spend his twilight years in the cold frozen north all alone. To that end, he needs to be in top physical condition to offset the inevitable ravages of age. Once he has secured the affections of a female, maybe she will help him insulate.
Well I had a good belly laugh there . Unfortunately I don’t think there’s to many woman that could cope with me lol .
Tried more than a few times , and never ended well :grin:

And unfortunately my sweetie is spoken for . But Erin was born with a boyfriend . So there was no chance there :(
 

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Rick
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Guys I’m thinking of going back to plan B . I am going to put 4 vertical 2x6 along the wall , paint them white so they don’t really stand out .
I am not going to secure them to the wall , but let them sit on there own weight .
I can secure them to a wood header at the top .
I will dado out the sides in order for the horizontal pieces to secure better. Then use my pocket hole jig to attach the horizontal pieces .
If I leave a large enough border , I can paint molding and attach it around the perimeter of the StoreWall :)

I will do a Sketchup later to illustrate it better
 

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Rick if you have a heavy load around the middle of the uprights then2 x on the flat can bow outward. I would use either the tapcons or what Otis suggested for a couple or 3 attachments between ends. I've used something like what Otis linked to for drywall and it is the only thing I'll use when I need to hang something that will have a load on it. I haven't seen then larger and longer for cinder block yet but I would use them if I could find them. They're made so that when you tighten the screw the tip flattens out to a t shape similar to a toggle bolt but with a smaller hole and easier to install.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Rick if you have a heavy load around the middle of the uprights then2 x on the flat can bow outward. I would use either the tapcons or what Otis suggested for a couple or 3 attachments between ends. I've used something like what Otis linked to for drywall and it is the only thing I'll use when I need to hang something that will have a load on it. I haven't seen then larger and longer for cinder block yet but I would use them if I could find them. They're made so that when you tighten the screw the tip flattens out to a t shape similar to a toggle bolt but with a smaller hole and easier to install.
Good point Charles , and in that case I may as well just go for the floating look , as it will best to secure it anyways .
I’m thinking of not going into a hollow spot on the block ,so the Togglers won’t work,so I’m debating to use the double expanding metal ones that Dan mentioned
 

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Well I had a good belly laugh there . Unfortunately I don’t think there’s to many woman that could cope with me lol .
Tried more than a few times , and never ended well :grin:

And unfortunately my sweetie is spoken for . But Erin was born with a boyfriend . So there was no chance there :(
Well, you certainly know how to pick 'em! Maybe you should fish in some other water . . .
 
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Good point Charles , and in that case I may as well just go for the floating look , as it will best to secure it anyways .
I’m thinking of not going into a hollow spot on the block ,so the Togglers won’t work,so I’m debating to use the double expanding metal ones that Dan mentioned
After doing a lot of searching on the internet, seems like Tapcon and Construction adhesive is the preferred way to go. But it is recommended that if the load is over 100# that 2X4 legs under the bottom 2X4 rail should be used.
It might be wise to use a combination of methods ,like the one Otis recommends as well as an abundance of fasteners./
Herb
 
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