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soft start/variable speed table setup

32536 Views 175 Replies 27 Participants Last post by  jw2170
greetings all... here is my situation: I've built a custom router table, invested in top of the line accessories blah, blah, blah.. but as of yet, still have not purchased a router. I would idealy want to have remote control (outside of the router box portion of the cabinet) of router motor speed. Right now, the only production router i can find that allows for this is the Milwaukee 5625 sold as a package with remote varialble speed control. This package has reviewed very well and certainly isn't a bad consideration, however, I'd like to know of any other options. From what I've read, the big PC's and Milwaukee's with soft start and VS will not allow for a 'remote' motor speed controller. I've read through the forum and could not find anything that answered my questions, so i figure go straight to the experts..thanks in advance for any assistance...
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ok guys, a good friend passed this link onto me. One of the best if not the best piece i've seen on converting a 5625 Milwaukee to what amount to a 05626 Milwaukee (with factory remote VS control) I have concerns about how this might effec the routers PCB control. However, if you read the article. the author claims there are no issues?...I'm guessing this conversion would apply to just about any router.. Before you try it, consult with someone who would know one way or the other first...

WoodNet Forums: Milwaukee 5625 Router convert JessEm 5626 - WARNING - PIC HEAVY
For those of you out there that are following this lil adventure or just curious here's the latest. It seems that Jessem and Milwaukee have parted ways. the 05626 with remote variable speed is no longer available and out of production. (per jessem) I'm running out of patience but have yet to hear back from Jessem on a possibly inventory return they were expecting to recieve. Once again, the folks at Jessem have been great to deal with. I've been very impressed with their customer service. Most of of the websites that offer the unit just havn't taken the add offline yet. I've heard the rumor that Jessem is looking at providing another remote VS router via another mfg. heard that from two different vendors, but nothing to support it.
hi Bill,

after reading the forum for quite a little while, i know we have some milwaukee users but it seems the majority are dewalt, craftsman , bosch and makita. so it may not get a lot of questions. im not sure?????? maybe my take is wrong? anyway, i know i wouldnt be interested in a milwaukee router. dont get me wrong their sawzall is great. and their drills are too. i just havent heard a lot of people that have been on the forum for awhile talking about the milwaukee routers.maybe my post will get them started!

i think Nick on the forum you moderate may have a milwaukee? not sure?
There are a lot of PC routers too..
Hey Levon..

Yes, surprisingly (at least to me) not much mention in here about the Milwaukee line of routers. I don't put much stock in any mfg's review of their own product. I do rely heavily on 2nd party reviews and consumer comments which weigh heavily in my decession making process. I think it part its due to the fact that most of the guys who have been using routers for quite a while have gone to PC and stuck with them. and why not, if something works and works well, why change. The killer with the 05626 in my opinion has got to be the price point. At 500 a pop, just how much market share did they think they were going to get? Considering that the base model 0525 is around 275 +/- a few bucks.
Its priced competitively. Take away the router base, add a remote VSC (which in the end couldn't have added much if anything to the cost) and you've got something to should sell just above the PC 75182. But nooooooooooooooooooooooooo.... *L*
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hiya BigJim,

yeppers, PC has a lot of em no doubt. In fact, I am leaning towards an 890 if I can't find a Milwaukee anytime soon. The 890 has been a solid performer even with its history of problems. From what i've read, PC is quick and more than willing to resolve any issues you may run across. I do believe that the newer models are more reliable, thinking that PC has corrected any problems with the line.
One thing i've heard and have been trying to confrim is that the (just an example) 890 you might pick up at a local retailer is NOT identical to an 890 you may pick up at say Rockler or woodcraft. In order to put the product on the shelf, the mfg. is given a price point by the seller and the unit is then modeled to meet that price point. Often sacraficing high end quality parts in order to meet the sellers pricepoint..

btw, how goes your own project? where do you stand with it? I've been following your posts and havn't heard much of late?...

how's the 'skeeters' up there this time of year???
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yep, you guys are right, there are a lot of pc's here. i have a vegetable soup in my small router collection. i have an old cheap b&d that has a 1/4 collet but works. i have a pc 7529 and a 3 base pro combo craftsman and my last was a bosch 1617 with 2 bases.
im no expert on any of them. the bosch is a great router. the craftsman is a joy to work with, the worklights and the ease of adjustment is wonderful.

i think we all just seem to prefer certain brands for some reason and most seem to work very well. its sort of like fishing, if you have confidence in a lure, you will catch fish on it, but no matter how good another lure is, if we dont have confidence in it, by nature we wont use it enough to catch fish on it. dumb but true:)
Levon.. your right,,, dead on..

I think it has more to do with two things. First is "does it work".. and if it does, why mess with it. and Second is "feel". We learn how to use a specific router. We learn how it feels, how it reacts, we come to anticipate what the router will do. The operation of a good tool becomes instinctive. We push a lil here, lean this way or that, tilt the head to the left or right, set the speed just right. We get used to the weight, the noise and the kick. Its all good, when it works well and we've spent some time getting used to the tool. Everytime we get a new one, the process starts all over again.
hiya BigJim,

yeppers, PC has a lot of em no doubt. In fact, I am leaning towards an 890 if I can't find a Milwaukee anytime soon. The 890 has been a solid performer even with its history of problems. From what i've read, PC is quick and more than willing to resolve any issues you may run across. I do believe that the newer models are more reliable, thinking that PC has corrected any problems with the line.
One thing i've heard and have been trying to confrim is that the (just an example) 890 you might pick up at a local retailer is NOT identical to an 890 you may pick up at say Rockler or woodcraft. In order to put the product on the shelf, the mfg. is given a price point by the seller and the unit is then modeled to meet that price point. Often sacraficing high end quality parts in order to meet the sellers pricepoint..

btw, how goes your own project? where do you stand with it? I've been following your posts and havn't heard much of late?...

how's the 'skeeters' up there this time of year???

Bill,

My project goes.. but not nearly as fast as I want it to! I've received the PC 7518, an Incra LS 25 Supersystem, Incra Mast-r-lift, Wixey remote digital readout and an Incra miter gauge. I've got a MasterGage and Lee Valley 50" aluminum straightedge in the mail.

I've got the cash for the Unisaw but am holding off ordering it until I finalize the power run into my garage. My desire is to install a 100A fused disconnect off of the mains (just downstream of the main breaker) and have a plug/receptacle that connects a 3/c #2 cable to a subpanel in the garage. I want to use an "extension cord" approach since I'm leasing and want to take it with me when I go.

The holdup so far is looking for a less-expensive plug/receptacle pair. Finding a 100A setup that's NEC 3R (rainproof) rated has so far left me with $1,000 just for the two. That's just too d*mned much to spend on a plug.

So, I'm working with some of the local electrical suppliers to see if one of them will cut me a deal. I'm not looking for free but am hoping one of them will consider something near cost, since its for hobby use and I specify hundreds of thousands in electrical components per year for industrial applications. The people I've needed to talk to have been on vacation the last couple of weeks; starting next week it's time to go hardcore!

If that is unsuccessful, I'll drop back to 60A service. With that, I have to decide if I want to have the 40A slow-blow circuit Delta recommends for their 5hp Unisaw or if I should go with the 3hp. The $200 extra for the motor I can see, but not $1,000 for the outside outlet! :shout:

I'm getting mighty antsy though.. I've given the cast iron tables on my dripp press, jointer, planer, bandsaw and scrollsaw a going over with Phosphoric acid / Boeshield and gave them a preliminary tuning. That's what led to ordering the straightedge and mastergage!

As for the skeeters.. its been a sunny spring so they aren't too thick.. barely enough for a swarm to carry away a small dog. A couple of weeks of rain though, and then the moose better watch out!

Jim
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hey Jim...

I see your point about the whole electrical thing. Hate to put money into something that isn't going to be permanent. Since I don't know the EC codes up there. have you considered a electrical generator as a source of power? Minor mods to tie into your shop while you are there, and when your ready to relocate, it relocates with ya and you can keep it as a backup or just sale it outright to recoup some of the expense?..
Hey Jim,
I've also been folowing your setup process and you may have sorted out the details by now but I thought I'd throw this out to you. If I'm understanding your intention and process correctly, you wish to wire a 100 amp subpanel in the garage to power your woodworking tools. You would like to take the subpanel with you when you end your lease and move. Am I correct so far?

Here's what I would do: Establish location and install the subpanel in the garage. Pull three runs of #2 and ground to the main panel if there is a space for a 100 amp breaker or to a disconnect box that is fused. If you use a disconnect box, there will be less fuss and muss when you choose to vacate the circuit. I would forgo the plug and receptacle. You will have some minor disconnect work when you move but it will not be that much more than removing a cable with receptacle. Good luck with the power tools.
Bill,

My project goes.. but not nearly as fast as I want it to! I've received the PC 7518, an Incra LS 25 Supersystem, Incra Mast-r-lift, Wixey remote digital readout and an Incra miter gauge. I've got a MasterGage and Lee Valley 50" aluminum straightedge in the mail.

I've got the cash for the Unisaw but am holding off ordering it until I finalize the power run into my garage. My desire is to install a 100A fused disconnect off of the mains (just downstream of the main breaker) and have a plug/receptacle that connects a 3/c #2 cable to a subpanel in the garage. I want to use an "extension cord" approach since I'm leasing and want to take it with me when I go.

The holdup so far is looking for a less-expensive plug/receptacle pair. Finding a 100A setup that's NEC 3R (rainproof) rated has so far left me with $1,000 just for the two. That's just too d*mned much to spend on a plug.

So, I'm working with some of the local electrical suppliers to see if one of them will cut me a deal. I'm not looking for free but am hoping one of them will consider something near cost, since its for hobby use and I specify hundreds of thousands in electrical components per year for industrial applications. The people I've needed to talk to have been on vacation the last couple of weeks; starting next week it's time to go hardcore!

If that is unsuccessful, I'll drop back to 60A service. With that, I have to decide if I want to have the 40A slow-blow circuit Delta recommends for their 5hp Unisaw or if I should go with the 3hp. The $200 extra for the motor I can see, but not $1,000 for the outside outlet! :shout:

I'm getting mighty antsy though.. I've given the cast iron tables on my dripp press, jointer, planer, bandsaw and scrollsaw a going over with Phosphoric acid / Boeshield and gave them a preliminary tuning. That's what led to ordering the straightedge and mastergage!

As for the skeeters.. its been a sunny spring so they aren't too thick.. barely enough for a swarm to carry away a small dog. A couple of weeks of rain though, and then the moose better watch out!

Jim
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Yes Lance, I agree.

The only reason I was looking at the "extension cord" approach was to be a "no footprint" tenant, running the power cord out under the garage door only when I was working in the shop. This would preclude attaching it to the building and passing it through a hole in the wall. This is just too much extra to pay.

I'll need to look for a "minimally invasive" approach to getting the cord into the garage. Stay tuned.. I'm moving forward. I stopped by my local Delta dealer after work to order the saw on Friday but the head guy is only there 8-5 M-F so I'll have to go there next week.

Tomorrow I figure out how to get the cord into the building leaving the least impact on the place after I move.

Jim

Jim
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There is always an alternative solution to a problem.
As the OP has surmised, remote speed control can be implemented in different flavors. I would assume that all EVS routers can have the soft-start and speed control circuits bypassed in order to use a remote speed control. With the use of lifts, digital height gauges, and remote speed controls, the user can do everything from the top of the table.

Jim, I hope you get that saw hooked up, soon. I'll be eagerly waiting for your impressions. Is the Unisaw you're looking at the Model 36-L336, the one with the single cast trunnion?
Lance.. thats exactly what I want to do, everything from the top of the table...

with regards to variable speed control. the heart of the matter lies within the "Electronic Feedback Module". In all of the wiring diagrams I have looked at now, the EFM is a stationary mounted control unit at the base of the router. The speed control mechanism, either a dial or switch level is basically built into the EFM. The EFM gets its signal from the armature. Remove the EFM and you remove the signal, no speed control. Now in the case of the link I posted a while back. The EFM is replaced with an EFM designed for 'remote" control. This EFM looks to be a direct replacement for the factory unit. It almost appears to me that this unit is what might be used on the 05626 Milwaukee that started this whole thing. However, I do not know that to be a fact. Once this EFM is isntalled, its all downhill from there. The orginal creater of that link, a fellow named Casey Puyleart, did a fantastic job. Since the 05626 Milwaukee is no longer available, and I've all but given up trying to locate one, I've put in an email attempting to find out if the parts used in the upgrade as still available..

the saga continues...
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Bill,

I'm enjoying following your thread, as it's inspired me to think about doing it to my 7518 at some time in the future. Life is a journey of learning!

Lance,

Yes,
I'm looking at the Unisaw with the cast iron trunion, only either the 36-L352 (52" vs. 36" rip) or the 36-L551, the 5hp big brother to it. The 5hp manual calls for 40A slow-blow fuses, even though the motor is only 21 full load amps. That's what's encouraging me to look at the 100A service, instead of 60A. By the time I turn on my dust collector and then fire up the tablesaw... 60A would probably work but it'd really torque me off to set it up for 60A and have it borderline too small day 1 when for an extra 10-15% you never have to think about it.

I see this as "my last tablesaw" so...

Jim
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welp, here we go. this is for those of you that have been following this thread or at least have found it to be of some interest. Earlier today, I finally commited to a router. After having considered both the PC 7518 and the Milwaukee 5625-20 I've decided on the Milwaukee. I found a good price or at least a fair price on Ebay earlier today. $250.00 for a new router which included a 1/4" collet. Not a price that will qualifty for deal of the century, but a fair price none the less.
After having spent a considerable amount of time researching and reading on both, mostly reviews and the like. I decided upon the Milwaukee for a couple of reason. First and foremost is the fact that I will be able to convert the unit to remote control. Both on/off and variable speed control will be handled outside of the box. Second was the fact that the Mil. is a bit quieter than the PC. Since I work out of my basement keeping the noise down at night is a plus. Third was the availability of service, should I need it. I found that I have a authorized Milwaukee repair shop, just 20 minutes down the road. I stopped in and spoke with the guys in the repair shop and they were just as helpful as could be. Commenting hightly on the 5625 which pretty much sealed the deal. The few things that I did find a bit concerning was one, it appears that there are models made in the USA and there are those made in china. I've been unable to narrow down which is made where. The unit I purchased is labeled as being Mfg. in US with parts from both china and USA. Just the world we live in I guess. Secondly while in the Mil. repair shop today, I asked if they could give me a price on a unit. (this was before buying the one I did). The guy came back after having made a phone call and said that it would be at least 3 weeks before they could get one which I thought rather odd. Even more so than that, according to the guy on the other end of the line, he wasn't sure if the 5625 was about to be discontinued in lew of new line. I thought about it a while and decided that anything 'new' is gonna be more expensive and that I hoped that if they did come out with a new line, its a good as the old one.
Both the PC and the Milwaukee owners are for the most part extremely loyal to their brand. Pretty much split down the middle in terms of numbers and opinions. What was perhaps even more surprising was the lack of trash talk between the two camps. I found that to be very refreshing. One does not stand out over the other in just about every category for table mounted routing. Now if your looking for a unit to do both above and below table, that reviews and opinions again, are pretty much split. With a slight edge going to the PC side, if only for the fact, the 7518 been around longer.
So now, I can't wait for the thing to arrive. I received my Incra PRLv2 a few weeks back. Man, I gotta tell ya, this thing is one hefty piece of equipment. Solid, well built and crafted. I was very impressed with it. I can't comment on its operation yet, but just out of the box I have to say, if it works half as well as it looks, I'll be very happy. The Wixey digital readout I ordered with it came as well. A no brainer to install on this particular lift since all holes were predrilled and ready to have the Wixey mounted up. It took all of 20 minutes to mount the gauge onto the lift. Setting up the router into the lift and the lift into the table are non issues. Quite simple.
Converting the 5625 to remote control like the one in the link I posted earlier shouldn't be difficult at all. I contacted the sourse for the parts and they were all readily available and will ship out in 5-7 days. As of today, the prices are still current. The tech I spoke with at Charles Day said that in the past few weeks he has had several calls for the parts listed. A half dozen or better. I just had to laugh. I'd like to think the calls were due to the readership of this thread, but who knows. Since the Electronic Feedback Control is a bolt on feature and key to the upgrade, the rest is all downhill from there. Wiring and type of controls to be used are up to the builder. Leaving wide open all kinds of options for fit and finish.
Right now, I've got two head scratches. First is the WonderFence I purchased. My LS positioner's fence mounts dead on 90 to my table top. No if's and's or butt's. when I went to mount the wonder fence, she mounted up with almost a 3 degree pitch from the table top to the top of the fence. The WF 2 piece fence assembly lies flat to the table when not attached to the LS fence. After checking with a known good square it appears the problem is with the "offset" mechanisms. I contacted incra and the replied this was no big deal. I dunno about that... and tend to disagree. especially when doing upright boards. So I'll have to come up with a solid shim set up.
Second is the mounting of the Jessem Mit-r-slide to the LS fence. The jessem unit is a beast. Heavy, and solidly built. Very impressive piece of equipment. Absolutely no slop between the round rail the unit travels back and forth on and the miter assembly. This unit beats the heck out of the factory Incra sled by a mile. Or at best, I would suspect it will.
Since my table is a hefty 28" x 50" and the router opening centers 20"s off the front edge, I'll have alot of table behind the fence to make use of in one fashion or another. I plan on taking and using this part of the table for an assembly area for my pocket hole jig. The LS will eventually be mounted on rails and a base unit that will allow for quick and easy removal, hence leaving the back side of the table open for use. Had I thought of it prior to building my cabinet, I might have even considered building a down draft system into the back portion of the router table and using a portion of the table as the draft cavity. Right now, the cabinet itself stands at about 38"s. Which for some may seem a little high, but I find it a very comfortable work height. Especially since my back ain't what it used to be....
So the saga continues...
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Bill, that sounds like a "killer" setup you have there. I've always liked Milwaukee tools. They seem to build a rugged and reliable tool. Being able to dial everything in from the top of the table is way cool, too. Post up a pic or two of your table when you have it set up.
I wonder if any of the older Bosch speed controls (non-vs) mate up with the VS routers?

BTW, no problems about table height, I just lowered mine to 39 1/2" to mate with the table saw.:yes4:
Lance...

the real deal maker for me on this project was the fact that I was able to find an Electronic feedback control unit that was/is a direct replacement for the factory Milwaukee unit. I can't give you an informed answer to your Bosch question, but I would suggest that you contact your nearest authorized repair dealer. Over the course of the last 3 or 4 months, I've talked with I dont know how many repair guys, inquiring as to what can and cant' be done. by far, the factory trained guys were the sharpest. My router arrived today, so this weekend, she's going in..*S*
hi twoskies , what was the name of nick and your new forum? i know its off subject, but i lost it.
Levon.. make no mistake about it, Woodworking Sense is Nick's forum.. the guy is pouring his heart and soul into it. I"m just there to help when I can....Its actually kinda fun getting in on the ground floor...so far, a bit slow, but enjoyable..
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