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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Less than five years ago a friend of mine had a five Kw 20 panel system installed, it was made in Germany, it cost $19.500, admittedly the government paid 45cents for all power fed back into the grid for ten years where now it's only eight cents!
Whilst I was in hospital recently I saw a full page add for a 5Kw system plus a 30ltr solar storage hot water system for about $8000.00 Well, this seemed quite a bargain so I phoned the company from my hospital bed and had a long chat, (I was in no hurry) and arranged for a rep to visit me within a few days. The day that I came out of hospital Marlene did a Google search and found an add for three quotes for solar systems. Clicking on this brought an emailed quote within hours but I didn't follow this up because, even though it detailed all the systems that they handled together with history of the factories, a 5Kw system was listed at $3999.00, far to good to be true so I ignored it. A day later I received a phone call from a second dealer but he couldn't supply a European made system so I didn't make a decision. A day or so later the firm that I phoned from hospital turned up and quoted me for a European system, no hot water because it was decided that our gas bill was so low, it wasn't justified. Within an hour or so of the rep leaving the firm that first emailed the low quote phoned and explained the stated prices were for their cheapest system and they could supply an identical European system at just $6200.00, $714.00 cheaper than the other identical system quote. We are now awaiting installation within the next six weeks, the hold-up being the electricity people installing a new three phase bi-directional meter. This should reduce our large power bills by at least half.
 

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Should pay itself off in the next 20 years . I was waiting for a punch line lol
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Should pay itself off in the next 20 years . I was waiting for a punch line lol
With a 6 HP reverse cycle air-conditioner it isn't unusual to receive two monthly bills touching the high $600.00's they have even topped the $700.00 mark so a system will I think be paid for in about five years. There should be some rebates coming in at 8 cents a Kw hour.
 

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@harrysin...
do you run your AC continuously at night and that's HP and not Tons???
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Never at night Marty, just a fan in our bedroom because the walls are quite cold from the daytime running. It is an inverter system so there are no start-up surges. The double fan outdoor unit is rated at 6 Horsepower.
 

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then you are just shy of a refrigerated home???
 
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As I look out the window right now it is snowing. No air conditioner running here today. A woodworking friend is working to get solar put on his church to reduce their utility bills. Malcolm / Kentucky USA
 

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Paul
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Sounds like a good investment, Harry. On the other side of the planet we're not thinking about air conditioning right now. ;)
 

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Sounds like a good investment, Harry. On the other side of the planet we're not thinking about air conditioning right now. ;)
true...

9°...
 

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I had no idea you payed that much for power . Sounds a little high to me :(
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I had no idea you payed that much for power . Sounds a little high to me :(
We pay 22.360100 cents per unit and the air conditioner is on most of the year, heating/cooling.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Sounds like a good investment, Harry. On the other side of the planet we're not thinking about air conditioning right now. ;)
What about heating?
 

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Stick, do you have geothermal?

If I can pull it off I want to put in soalr panels and geothrmal. If I could find a single home non-bird killer wind energy I would put that in too. My goal is to get off the grid completely.

Harry, thanks very much for the analysis. I recall that somewhere in your now dead thread you did an analysis of how long it would take for a solar panel system to pay for itself.
 

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Stick, do you have geothermal?

If I can pull it off I want to put in soalr panels and geothrmal. If I could find a single home non-bird killer wind energy I would put that in too. My goal is to get off the grid completely.

Harry, thanks very much for the analysis. I recall that somewhere in your now dead thread you did an analysis of how long it would take for a solar panel system to pay for itself.
be careful...
you won't get off the grid no matter what you are told...

wind....
produces some of what it can some of the time...
about 30-35% over all...
winds too high. icing, calm and a host of other things stop output...
repairs and equipment eat a lot of money...
and I mead a lot...
cost analysis puts the KW unit price at about 3-4 times the grid price...
and my turbine and tower were free... just had to go pick it up...
wait to see the extent of the base it sits on... got money..

geothermal...
I have a heat exchanger set up in a hot sprig... (closed loop)
best over all return but it still has issues....
keeping up w/ hard mineral deposits is a bear... they can plug a 2" line in less than 2 months... (open loop)... 4" in 3-4 months...
open loop is a hopeless endeavor... more work, maint and money consumption then mere mortals can stand..
the natural minerals in the HS are really tough on the 800 series SS heat exchangers... (the cost will hurt your brain)...
then there is the cost of the glycol, specialized fittings/piping that can deal w/ the ever changing pH and you still need pumps...
the flow rates of the spring can vary from zero GPM for a few days/weeks/months to ''RUN FOR IT!!!''...

Photovoltic...
they only work during the day and on fair days...
storms radically reduce output...
price some quality KV panels some time...

the extras...

battery banks...
just wait till you get into AGM/VRLA battery banks... big ones..
pucker time...

still gonna need...
generator..
back up heating plant..
remain on grid...

controllers...
lots of them...
big bucks...
keeping up w/ one system down and needing to go to back up or switch overs is/are an exercise in futility...
voltage control is a real work out...

voltages...
you have to deal w/ low/high/fluctuating/spikes on a day to day basis...
the turbine puts out 480-3Ø VAC...
so voltages range from 480VAC down to 12VDC...
what is you need now for what ever???
you are about to delve into a realm you just aren't ready for and there's a surprise around every corner...

so................
what are your needs.....
can you economically eet them...

all these tree hugging clean energy freaks can ''BITE ME''!!!!
 

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be careful...
you won't get off the grid no matter what you are told...

wind....
produces some of what it can some of the time...
about 30-35% over all...
winds too high. icing, calm and a host of other things stop output...
repairs and equipment eat a lot of money...
and I mead a lot...
cost analysis puts the KW unit price at about 3-4 times the grid price...
and my turbine and tower were free... just had to go pick it up...
wait to see the extent of the base it sits on... got money..

geothermal...
I have a heat exchanger set up in a hot sprig... (closed loop)
best over all return but it still has issues....
keeping up w/ hard mineral deposits is a bear... they can plug a 2" line in less than 2 months... (open loop)... 4" in 3-4 months...
open loop is a hopeless endeavor... more work, maint and money consumption then mere mortals can stand..
the natural minerals in the HS are really tough on the 800 series SS heat exchangers... (the cost will hurt your brain)...
then there is the cost of the glycol, specialized fittings/piping that can deal w/ the ever changing pH and you still need pumps...
the flow rates of the spring can vary from zero GPM for a few days/weeks/months to ''RUN FOR IT!!!''...

Photovoltic...
they only work during the day and on fair days...
storms radically reduce output...
price some quality KV panels some time...

the extras...

battery banks...
just wait till you get into AGM/VRLA battery banks... big ones..
pucker time...

still gonna need...
generator..
back up heating plant..
remain on grid...

controllers...
lots of them...
big bucks...
keeping up w/ one system down and needing to go to back up or switch overs is/are an exercise in futility...
voltage control is a real work out...

voltages...
you have to deal w/ low/high/fluctuating/spikes on a day to day basis...
the turbine puts out 480-3Ø VAC...
so voltages range from 480VAC down to 12VDC...
what is you need now for what ever???
you are about to delve into a realm you just aren't ready for and there's a surprise around every corner...

so................
what are your needs.....
can you economically eet them...

all these tree hugging clean energy freaks can ''BITE ME''!!!!

Thanks for the info, @stick. I consider it to be very helpful and informative

You were there for there end of Harry's thread that ultimately had more posts than any thread in the history of RouterForums. So you know my views, but as you pointed there are some very serious issues that have to be overcome before we can stop burning fossil fuels.
You did bring up issues I was not aware of, especially the mineral deposits clogging the geothermal pipes.
There is a fellow in my town who has solar panels and geothermal, but no wind. He is still on the grid for the cloudy, stormy days and I have no idea how he deals with snow. Even worse when the grid goes down all his systems shut down too so he is not free from the grid failures. Apparently that is a safety feature designed to protect repair people. However his system will pay for itself for about 10 years.

In short there is still a long way to go.
 

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Paul
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What about heating?
My heating at this house is natural gas, Harry. My old house is oil (diesel) and that was horribly expensive but has come down some.

The newer house has up to date insulation and windows and high efficiency heating, so it's not that bad to heat or cool. The air conditioning is electric but I'm kinda cheap with it and keep it set at a fairly high temperature. That takes the humidity out and it's quite comfortable. My electric bill is under $150 (Can) at its worst. Our electricity pricing is tiered, so laundry is done when it's the cheapest: in the evening or weekends.

I have friends who's electricity costs are similar to yours but they have the air conditioning set so high that the heating would be on if it was that cold in the winter. ;)

I would like to heat my garage (shop) but that would be a large investment. The double door is one-piece tin and two walls are uninsulated. The ceiling is just exposed roof trusses, I guess around 20 feet up, at the peak.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
My philosophy is that we have worked hard all our lives and so deserve to be comfortable in both summer and winter. I must also confess that the only reason that I decided on solar panels at this time was because I suddenly found out that the cost was just a third of that paid by a friend close to five years ago for a same spec. system.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
My philosophy is that we have both worked hard all our lives and now deserve to live comfortable lives in summer and winter. Another confession is that the reason that I decided to have solar panels installed at this time was because I suddenly realised that the price has dropped to a third of that paid for a same spec system by a friend close to five years ago.

THE REASON FOR APPROX. DUPLICATION WAS BECAUSE BOTH ATTEMPTS APPEARED TO VANISH
 
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