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Students Wanted!

1473 Views 26 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  jw2170
Hi, I am looking for people interested in learning new router lessons on the table-mounted router. This would be a scheduled zoom meeting environment and we would be making a small box as featured in episode 801 of the Router Workshop. It's Christmas time and these boxes would be made as gifts for relatives and friends. We would be going through the following: 1) the Rabbet/Dado joint on the box body, 2) installing hinges for the box lid, 3) molding the top and bottom edges, and 4) techniques for making the parts list of a custom box. Is anyone interested?
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Hi

I am new to this forum and routing but am interested in learning. I have limited equipment and am mostly learning to make picture frames but want to expand my capabilities. When will you classes be held?

Mike
Hi Mike, Glad you joined the fun. My wife is an artist and so I have done a lot of picture frames for her. Some traditional, some more modern. Here's a sample:
Bird Vertebrate Paint Rectangle Beak


It has been a journey learning how to make great frames. This one is actually a composit of two materias, the dark portion is a very simple milling job done on a router table with a couple of bits. Then a flat groove cut for the woven inlay, which you can purchase at Home Depot. In fact there are dozens of inlay patterns you can get. More on that later.

I have also made several traditional frames, in hardwood (Cherry is my current favorite), which I purchase pre milled at a regional supplier. The profile depends a little on whether the painting is on canvas stretchers (thick) or canvas stretched over a thin sheet of wood (thin), That has to do with the depth of the rabbet on the underside, into which the painting fits.

There are a number of profiles, and of course you purchase bit sets that produce picture frame profiles in you own shop, which is much cheaper than buying pre milled stock. The cost of milled stock is daunting. Consider that you must find perfectly straight and flat material, and it's a challenge to find even 8 feet of perfect stock, so you have to buy at least twice the length you will finally need. You cannot square up stock that is twisted, warped, bowed or anything but straight and flat.

How much stock do you need? Calculate the outside dimensions of the frame, plus a little extra to allow for the blade's width, plus and inch or so just in case. I use a miter saw to rough cut the first miters, but it is hust not accurate enough to give a good frame. Half a degree error multiplied by 8 gives you a 4 degree final misalignment. That is impossible to make up.

So to get a little closer, I go to the table saw using this:
Wood Motor vehicle Rolling stock Wheel Train


This is the Incra 1000 miter gauge. It is incredibly accurate. It has an extension arm and a stop block built in. To use it for frames, put the stop block up, then trim one end of each piece. Then set the stop to the length of the outside of the piece. Almost always one pair of pieces will be short, the other long. You will have to swing the fence around to cut the other end to exactly the same length on each pair. Same length! Cannot emphasize that enough.

Get a full kerf, glue line saw blade to make your cuts. It delivers a baby butt smooth finish on your cuts. It also cuts a flat bottom so your spline will be an exact fit.

I am a perfectionist, so I go one step further and use a guillotine type cutter to get a perfect, exact, no kidding 45. The blade slides back and forth in this miter trimmer. It was a present from my wife, and was invented around 1880. Grizzly tools has them for sale. Be very careful if you get one, it will slice you with the most careless contact. I keep a block in front of the blades to keep fingers out. This is a trimmer, so I cut about 3 16hs long and use the trimmer to remove about 3/32nds off each end. I still doit that way even though the Incra miter gauge is extremely accurate. I just like glass smooth end grain for glue up. Here it is:
Bumper Wood Automotive exterior Gas Rim

This is my setup. The bar in front is the lever that moves the blades. The small swing arms on each side of the plate are set to be an exact 45 or 90. Don't try to cut more than a thin layer, it is a trimmer, not a cutter. Notice the handles on the side? They keep my hands far away from the blades when cutting. It comes with a couple of aluminum channels to support the frame pieces, along with a little stop block. It is mounted on a small folding table so it can be put away safely.

Once I get the cuts perfected, I lay out some freezer paper with a plastic coating on a large, flat surface (the outfeed table on my table saw. Then trial fit the frame. If I've done it right, the frame fits perfectly.

Glue. I like the transparent Tightbond III for frames with a bit more open time. I use a fine brush to apply the glue to the ends of all pieces, then let it dry. I am careful to NOT put glue all the way to the profiled edge. I don't want it squeezing out because it spoils the finish in the corners. I then apply another light coat and put the frame together. Because the 45s are perfect, the frame squares itself. But you can use an absolutely square corner brace to square it up if you wish. Plastic is good but if you make one of wood, was the hell out of it so it doesn't stick to your frame.

At this point I almost always use this gadget to pin the corners together. I like these even though they leave a small indent on the corners. Which later will be cur away when I place a spline in to reinforce the corners. }|
Eyewear Wood Musical instrument accessory Font Office instrument

Many people prefer to use band clamps to secure the corners while the glue dries. I've tried them and also the mechanical ones that use aluminum bars to pull the corners to the center. I prefer the spring clips, since I've gone to the trouble of getting the miters perfect.

OK, the frame is now dry. Next, I made a jig to hold the corner of the frame in place so I can use a 1/8th wide blade on the table saw to cut about an inch deep into each corner of the frame. Mine is elaborate but there are much simpler jigs that do the job. Mine makes it easy to position the frame so the cut goes where I want it, and it makes it very easy to add a second, decorative spline. I buy 1/8th thick specialty wood, like purplewood, or walnut for the spline. I cut short pieces and glue up the slot, slide the spline in, then after drying, use a very fine Japanese pull saw to slice of the excess spline material. Splines always show, so I go for a contrast. A bit of sanding. Here's my fancy jig:
Wood Floor Flooring Hardwood Shipping box

Now we've got the frame together, nice and strong so we can handle it. Time for a bit of sanding. You can sand the stock before assembly, but you may still nee to do a bit more. I have a large frame where I had a slight twist at the end, but didn't want to drive down to try to find a matching piece, $20 more, just for a 1mm mismatch. So I used sanding to bring down the error. Some people like to go to 320 grit sanding medium, but I prefer to top out at 220. I use the 3M sanding medium with the transparent back. Very quick, better than sandpaper by far. Hard to find, but worth the search because it works much better than paper backed sanding.
Publication Font Rectangle Parallel Magenta

I wrap the sanding medium around shaped sanding blocks. This is a set from Rockler. It makes sanding coves and beads a snap. The 3M sanding medium is perfect with this. Get a set.
Rectangle Font Electronic device Fashion accessory Metal


Even with the most perfect fitting, you may still get a slight gap here and there. For this I use an Aussie wood filler you find on Amazon called Timber Mate. You can get it in colors that match your wood. I rub it in with my fingers, let it dry briefly, then use a bit of sanding to remove the excess. It finishes exactly as the wood does so is invisible. These are hairline cracks, but I'm very fussy. Can't post any more pictures. Look it up.

OK, frame assembled, detailed. Now to finish. I tend to use a water based stain and use multiple coats, with a very light sanding between coats to remove the fuzz that lifts up with the stain. Then comes a final once over with 220 grit sanding medium, then wax embedded Tack cloth to get all sawdust up. Frame dry, time for a coating. There are so many different ways to finish wood, that I'll leave that choice to you. If I have a very light color frame, I'll just use on spray on lacquer, let dry, apply further light coats. But for darker frames, I really like a fairly glossy or semigloss of wipe on poly, I make sure there is no sawdust or any other stuff floating in the air, then apply a coat. I sometimes use a brush for detailed material, but for smooth frames, I use paper towels, folded over several times as an applicator. Let dry thoroughly and apply a second coat. If you leave it alone on a well prepped surface, it gives a really nice finish.
Liquid Product Fluid Bottle Gas


There is one more tool I strongly recommend, it is a tab driver, somewhat like a stapler, but it shoots in a small metal tab to hold the picture in the frame.
Tool Bicycle part Musical instrument accessory Font Auto part

The Logan company makes a number of items for frame makers.

For many frames in recent days, I've been using textured and shaped chair rails and decorative trim about 2 inches wide that I find at the big box stores. They are soft pine and fairly thin (about 1/2 inch thick), so they require extra care in finishing. They are too thin to use splines and they were not intended to hold a canvas. My solution is to put the frame together in the method mentioned, but before finishing, I cut square strips (about 3/4 square, the full length of the long side. I lay the canvas on the frame, using a pencil to outline the shape. I measure carefully to make sure they are equal on both sides of the frame. Then I glue the long strips on, next to the pencil line, but just outside the line. This strip reinforces the corners, and titebond glue is stronger than the wood. I then cut two short pieces for top and bottom, which gives me the recess for the canvas. I can use half inch thick stock if the picture is canvas on a hardboard.

I guess if you're really, really a perfectionist, you could cut those side pieces the exact width of the frame edge to the pencil line, then make an angled cut to lighten it up. This would give you a thicker edge to the frame and a little more glued support to the miters.

I have also found that there are some trim pieces not intended for the purpose, that make good frame material. I just poke around the trim til I find a profile I like. Personally I like frames thick on the outer edge, thinner closer to the inner edge. A great deal of stock is available that go the other direction, but I think they look like crap IMHO.

I promised to show some of the many inlay styles you can find at HD. You can cut a shallow flat spot in your stock and glue these in.
Wood Font Beige Symmetry Tints and shades


There are seemingly endless ways to make wonderful and unique picture frames. If you've priced a pro frame, even a simple one, you have a clue as to the value of a great frame that works to show off the artwork.

I hope this string is helpful. I went through a lot of unpleasant and expensive experiences to get to my current method. But I must say, it is a great source of extra husband points. I'm old and not so spry anymore, but picture frames are something I can make within the limits of my energy supply.
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WOW! Tom that is an amazing string of info on the building of picture frames. You have perfected the technique!

Another way to make frames is to build shadow boxes using box joints and rabbet/dado joints. Add to it the cross-lap for inside compartments. Tools needed are a router, router table, a simple fixture made by you, and the 1/4-inch router bit. The router is an amazing tool that can make many projects easily.

Still, looking for 2 people interested in learning the Router Workshop way to build jigs and fixtures? All it costs is time and effort...Rick

Drinkware Shelf Tableware Shelving Orange
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Hi Mike, Glad you joined the fun. My wife is an artist and so I have done a lot of picture frames for her. Some traditional, some more modern. Here's a sample:
View attachment 402900

It has been a journey learning how to make great frames. This one is actually a composit of two materias, the dark portion is a very simple milling job done on a router table with a couple of bits. Then a flat groove cut for the woven inlay, which you can purchase at Home Depot. In fact there are dozens of inlay patterns you can get. More on that later.

I have also made several traditional frames, in hardwood (Cherry is my current favorite), which I purchase pre milled at a regional supplier. The profile depends a little on whether the painting is on canvas stretchers (thick) or canvas stretched over a thin sheet of wood (thin), That has to do with the depth of the rabbet on the underside, into which the painting fits.

There are a number of profiles, and of course you purchase bit sets that produce picture frame profiles in you own shop, which is much cheaper than buying pre milled stock. The cost of milled stock is daunting. Consider that you must find perfectly straight and flat material, and it's a challenge to find even 8 feet of perfect stock, so you have to buy at least twice the length you will finally need. You cannot square up stock that is twisted, warped, bowed or anything but straight and flat.

How much stock do you need? Calculate the outside dimensions of the frame, plus a little extra to allow for the blade's width, plus and inch or so just in case. I use a miter saw to rough cut the first miters, but it is hust not accurate enough to give a good frame. Half a degree error multiplied by 8 gives you a 4 degree final misalignment. That is impossible to make up.

So to get a little closer, I go to the table saw using this:
View attachment 402901

This is the Incra 1000 miter gauge. It is incredibly accurate. It has an extension arm and a stop block built in. To use it for frames, put the stop block up, then trim one end of each piece. Then set the stop to the length of the outside of the piece. Almost always one pair of pieces will be short, the other long. You will have to swing the fence around to cut the other end to exactly the same length on each pair. Same length! Cannot emphasize that enough.

Get a full kerf, glue line saw blade to make your cuts. It delivers a baby butt smooth finish on your cuts. It also cuts a flat bottom so your spline will be an exact fit.

I am a perfectionist, so I go one step further and use a guillotine type cutter to get a perfect, exact, no kidding 45. The blade slides back and forth in this miter trimmer. It was a present from my wife, and was invented around 1880. Grizzly tools has them for sale. Be very careful if you get one, it will slice you with the most careless contact. I keep a block in front of the blades to keep fingers out. This is a trimmer, so I cut about 3 16hs long and use the trimmer to remove about 3/32nds off each end. I still doit that way even though the Incra miter gauge is extremely accurate. I just like glass smooth end grain for glue up. Here it is:
View attachment 402902
This is my setup. The bar in front is the lever that moves the blades. The small swing arms on each side of the plate are set to be an exact 45 or 90. Don't try to cut more than a thin layer, it is a trimmer, not a cutter. Notice the handles on the side? They keep my hands far away from the blades when cutting. It comes with a couple of aluminum channels to support the frame pieces, along with a little stop block. It is mounted on a small folding table so it can be put away safely.

Once I get the cuts perfected, I lay out some freezer paper with a plastic coating on a large, flat surface (the outfeed table on my table saw. Then trial fit the frame. If I've done it right, the frame fits perfectly.

Glue. I like the transparent Tightbond III for frames with a bit more open time. I use a fine brush to apply the glue to the ends of all pieces, then let it dry. I am careful to NOT put glue all the way to the profiled edge. I don't want it squeezing out because it spoils the finish in the corners. I then apply another light coat and put the frame together. Because the 45s are perfect, the frame squares itself. But you can use an absolutely square corner brace to square it up if you wish. Plastic is good but if you make one of wood, was the hell out of it so it doesn't stick to your frame.

At this point I almost always use this gadget to pin the corners together. I like these even though they leave a small indent on the corners. Which later will be cur away when I place a spline in to reinforce the corners. }|
View attachment 402904
Many people prefer to use band clamps to secure the corners while the glue dries. I've tried them and also the mechanical ones that use aluminum bars to pull the corners to the center. I prefer the spring clips, since I've gone to the trouble of getting the miters perfect.

OK, the frame is now dry. Next, I made a jig to hold the corner of the frame in place so I can use a 1/8th wide blade on the table saw to cut about an inch deep into each corner of the frame. Mine is elaborate but there are much simpler jigs that do the job. Mine makes it easy to position the frame so the cut goes where I want it, and it makes it very easy to add a second, decorative spline. I buy 1/8th thick specialty wood, like purplewood, or walnut for the spline. I cut short pieces and glue up the slot, slide the spline in, then after drying, use a very fine Japanese pull saw to slice of the excess spline material. Splines always show, so I go for a contrast. A bit of sanding. Here's my fancy jig:
View attachment 402905
Now we've got the frame together, nice and strong so we can handle it. Time for a bit of sanding. You can sand the stock before assembly, but you may still nee to do a bit more. I have a large frame where I had a slight twist at the end, but didn't want to drive down to try to find a matching piece, $20 more, just for a 1mm mismatch. So I used sanding to bring down the error. Some people like to go to 320 grit sanding medium, but I prefer to top out at 220. I use the 3M sanding medium with the transparent back. Very quick, better than sandpaper by far. Hard to find, but worth the search because it works much better than paper backed sanding.
View attachment 402906
I wrap the sanding medium around shaped sanding blocks. This is a set from Rockler. It makes sanding coves and beads a snap. The 3M sanding medium is perfect with this. Get a set.
View attachment 402910

Even with the most perfect fitting, you may still get a slight gap here and there. For this I use an Aussie wood filler you find on Amazon called Timber Mate. You can get it in colors that match your wood. I rub it in with my fingers, let it dry briefly, then use a bit of sanding to remove the excess. It finishes exactly as the wood does so is invisible. These are hairline cracks, but I'm very fussy. Can't post any more pictures. Look it up.

OK, frame assembled, detailed. Now to finish. I tend to use a water based stain and use multiple coats, with a very light sanding between coats to remove the fuzz that lifts up with the stain. Then comes a final once over with 220 grit sanding medium, then wax embedded Tack cloth to get all sawdust up. Frame dry, time for a coating. There are so many different ways to finish wood, that I'll leave that choice to you. If I have a very light color frame, I'll just use on spray on lacquer, let dry, apply further light coats. But for darker frames, I really like a fairly glossy or semigloss of wipe on poly, I make sure there is no sawdust or any other stuff floating in the air, then apply a coat. I sometimes use a brush for detailed material, but for smooth frames, I use paper towels, folded over several times as an applicator. Let dry thoroughly and apply a second coat. If you leave it alone on a well prepped surface, it gives a really nice finish.
View attachment 402907

There is one more tool I strongly recommend, it is a tab driver, somewhat like a stapler, but it shoots in a small metal tab to hold the picture in the frame.
View attachment 402908
The Logan company makes a number of items for frame makers.

For many frames in recent days, I've been using textured and shaped chair rails and decorative trim about 2 inches wide that I find at the big box stores. They are soft pine and fairly thin (about 1/2 inch thick), so they require extra care in finishing. They are too thin to use splines and they were not intended to hold a canvas. My solution is to put the frame together in the method mentioned, but before finishing, I cut square strips (about 3/4 square, the full length of the long side. I lay the canvas on the frame, using a pencil to outline the shape. I measure carefully to make sure they are equal on both sides of the frame. Then I glue the long strips on, next to the pencil line, but just outside the line. This strip reinforces the corners, and titebond glue is stronger than the wood. I then cut two short pieces for top and bottom, which gives me the recess for the canvas. I can use half inch thick stock if the picture is canvas on a hardboard.

I guess if you're really, really a perfectionist, you could cut those side pieces the exact width of the frame edge to the pencil line, then make an angled cut to lighten it up. This would give you a thicker edge to the frame and a little more glued support to the miters.

I have also found that there are some trim pieces not intended for the purpose, that make good frame material. I just poke around the trim til I find a profile I like. Personally I like frames thick on the outer edge, thinner closer to the inner edge. A great deal of stock is available that go the other direction, but I think they look like crap IMHO.

I promised to show some of the many inlay styles you can find at HD. You can cut a shallow flat spot in your stock and glue these in.
View attachment 402909

There are seemingly endless ways to make wonderful and unique picture frames. If you've priced a pro frame, even a simple one, you have a clue as to the value of a great frame that works to show off the artwork.

I hope this string is helpful. I went through a lot of unpleasant and expensive experiences to get to my current method. But I must say, it is a great source of extra husband points. I'm old and not so spry anymore, but picture frames are something I can make within the limits of my energy supply.

Hi Tom

Wow, That is an incredible welcome with a wealth of useful information. I am an amateur photographer and love to frame my photos and hang them on my walls. In the past I would purchase inexpensive frames from Michael's and other hobby stores. My father (an engineer) was a wood and leather worker by hobby. He made beautiful cabinets and furniture as well as full scale riding saddles out of leather. He also made a few picture frames for artwork that he purchased. I always admired his handywork. I retired in December and decided to try making my own frames. Currently I am using my older craftsman bench top top router table and craftsman router to cut my profiles and rabbet's and my Ryobi sliding compound miter saw to cut the miters. I mounted the router table to a tool stand that I purchased at Harbor Freight. It's not the best set up and is very limiting to the size of material I can work with. Fortunately Santa is going to be bringing me a Jessem router table with the Mast-R Lift Excell II top. I can't wait to try it out! I I am currently buying poplar 1x2's and 1x3's at Home depot and using my router to cut the profiles. I use a Freud Rabbit bit cutter with different sized bearings to cut the rabbits. I use a 45 degree champher bit for edges as well as a roman ogee and round over bits. I also use a 1/8th straight cutting bit to add a detail bead. What other router bits would you recommend? Any help is appreciated!

I have made about 7 frames so far but have not taken photos of them to share. My miter cuts are getting better and I have used a combination of wood putty and gel stain to fill in any gaps.

I purchased the Logan point shooter you reference as well as the Logan 450 artist mat cutter to cut the mat and glass as well as the Logan V nailer to bind the frames.

I have been finishing them with General finishes Gel stain and wipe on Poly. I have been using two different colors of stain on the frame, Brown face and Black edge's.

I am getting better results with each frame I make and am very welcome to an more suggestions you may have! Also interested in your opinion of the Jessem router set up I am going to purchase.

Thanks again

Mike
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Hi Tom
...

I am getting better results with each frame I make and am very welcome to an more suggestions you may have! Also interested in your opinion of the Jessem router set up I am going to purchase.

Thanks again

Mike
Although the Jessem lift is a great item, I chose instead to buy a Triton TRA001, which has a built in lift, and costs a little less than the last time I checked the Jessem. I like the extra power, and it is terrific for raising up to change bits. It has a number of finger saving safety features. It replace a Rockler lift and 2.25 hp Bosch 1617. You might give it consideration. There is nothing bad about the lift, I just prefer having it integrated in the router, and having the extra power is always nice, especially with some of the really exotic hard woods.

It is also possible to use the router table as a planer. That is where the extra power is nice. Buying stock from HD is always iffy because so much of it is bent, split, has twists and other imperfections that unless you are extremely persistent and lucky, it's hard to find wood straight enough to be usable, especially for frames.

I don't have this kit, but it's on my list. A set of bits to cut frame profiles. This is the Yonico set of bits for profiling picture framing material. I have a big slab of hard maple that jointed and then sliced, will provide at least one frame, possibly two, and for that I'll be glad for the extra power.
Toy Yellow Font Red Gas

I like this picture because it shows the profile after it is cut. It is so much cheaper to make frames if you do your own profiling on wood you've jointed yourself. But if you do your own, let the wood sit in the environment where it will go when done, then joint and cut it and use it within a day or two so it doesn't have time to twist or deform.

I found the picture frame bit set on Amazon. Make certain you buy them with half inch shanks! Here's a link to a single bit that I really like. https://www.amazon.com/Bestgle-Eleg...+picture+frame+router+bit+set,aps,189&sr=8-42.

You want to cut these profiles in several passes, moving the fence to expose more and more of the bit as you go. To do this with exact repetition of thickness on multiple pieces, What follows is my solution.

I suggest you put a pin through the table and into the left end of your fence to make a fulcrum. By swinging the right end forward and back, you can control the depth of cut. Clamp the right side down for each cut. You can use a pencil mark to mark the position of the right side of the fence for each pass, including the final one. If you ripped all your shorter pieces to the same width, your material will match up nicely. Depending on the fence, you can use a bolt, or a quarter inch piece of rod as the fulcrum pin, but use a drill guide to make certain the pin hole is 90 to the table or the fence will bind. If the table is thin, glue an extra piece of hardwood below it so the fulcrum pin is deeply embedded in both table and fence.
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Some student follow-up photos and all done over Zoom, amazing!...Thanks for the help Dominique

Wood Output device Hardwood Flooring Machine
Rectangle Wood Flooring Sculpture Table
Furniture Shelf Shelving Wood Rectangle
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Some student follow-up photos and all done over Zoom, amazing!...Thanks for the help Dominique

View attachment 403451 View attachment 403452 View attachment 403453
What a great experience! I’m very happy with my decision to answer to that offer. I’m learning a lot of things while Rick is fine tuning the technology for his coaching site. This is a real win win situation.
Dominique
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I have always found Bob and Rick's videos to be very helpful in my earlier days on the forum and watching their TV series..

@domi125 , you will learn much from undertaking the course....

My main router table is still one I bought from them many yrs ago, and Forum friends freighted on to me in Australia....

Hey, Rick, do you still have your Dad's "fine adjusting tool" and stretching ruler?
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