Would a shop vac and a cyclone separator make an impression on a cabinet saw or is it going to require a whole lot more power and volume?

I don't currently have dust collection and cutting MDF is killing me.

I would like to broaden your question if you don't mind. I recently added a dust collection system to my shop and am very happy with it. I works fine on my band saw, jointer, and planer but not so well on my table saw. The saw is a hybrid, which as you probably know is made somewhat like a cabinet saw with the motor inclosed in a cabinet under the table. The problem, in my opinion , is that with a zero tolerance insert in the table there is not enough air flow to cause the sawdust to be pulled into the system. My question is in regard to the above issue of air flow, is what I have asked normal for a table saw such s mine. It is not a great big problem as the four inch hose when connected to the outlet on the saw makes it very easy to, with the door of the cabinet open, sweep the dust into the outlet and let it be pulled into dust collection system. Any input on the matter would be appreciated and something for Tom who started this thread to know about and
to take into consideration.

Tom, I do hope that it is alright for me to jump on your thread like this, but you did just open up a matter that I have had on my mind for awhile and wanted to ask about on the forum. Will be watching for responses.

Jerry

 

I don't have DC at home but do at work. With MDF, even with good suction from a 4" DC port you are still going to have the fine dust being flung out above the table and in your face. I have used a fan behind me to blow the dust back and a Dust Mask which has worked best for me. In the past we fabricated an above table hood that basically covers the blade and is connected to the DC. With both that and the below table DC connected it is ideal and handles all of the MDF dust.

 

The shop vac is not adequate, the cyclone just separates the dust and keeps the vac from filling as rapidly. This does not increase the suction of the shop vac. It will help it stay at "new filter" levels longer and as such is a good thing. Marco is exactly right on needing a top of the blade system as well as the 4" dc connection.

 

I have a 2 stage, 4 inch dust collection with a 21 ft hose that connects to the base of the table saw. This is of almost no practical use when cutting MDF. I think a top of machine dust collection system is needed. I've seen some attached to a port added to the blade guard which would be more likely to trap dust emitted from the top of the workpiece. I have a 1 HP blower in the shop and a 2 HP blower and 2 stage in the garage for the planer and jointer that are too large for the shop. The difference in dust collecting power is remarkable. You can order a 30 gallong fiber barrel from Ulead and the rest of the parts you need from Rockler. I bought the blowers from Harbor Freight. Get the highest power you can manage. I would also suggest finding a way to add a 2 inch hose connector to the table saw dust output port (Rockler has one they promote for a router, which should allow you to add a swing arm or ceiling suspended 2 inch hose to the blade guard. You could also use pvc to run between dust collection port and the blade guard port with flex hose connections at each end.

For MDF, I recently built a double filter overhead fan box since I think it is almost impossible to cut mdf without filling your lungs with dust. I keep surgical style dust masks all over the shop and have a battery powered respirator mask with filter for when I do any prolonged work or any work with mdf.

Whenever possible I cut outdoors. I'm building a deck in front of my workshop shed so I can roll tools out easily to minimize the inside mess. The messiest saw of all, a sliding miter, will be rolled out every time. If I had my druthers, I'd druther have a 20-24 separate garage workshop on a 24 x 36 slab with a roof over the outdoor deck to keep it cooler and dry. Let the desert wind do some of the dust control.

One more suggestion: A lot of fine dust gets trapped on the floor under tools, tables and carts. Many of my tool stands sit on wheeled frames which make it almost impossible to get a vacuum underneath and between the legs. Moving around in the shop is enough to get some of that sawdust airborne. I'm making all new cabinets for every tool so they take far less floor space and so I can more easily move them out of the way for frequent, very thorough vacuuming. This is a pain in the behind now since many stands are a foot or two wider than the tools they hold. The new stands will occupy minimum floor space so I'll have more room to move them aside.

I'm a throat cancer survivor so I take the carcinogen risk from sawdust very seriously. Severe lung damage is another risk, not to mention constant hacking coughs as you try to clear your lungs. Investing in dust control is a must. Get powerful blowers, the weak ones aren't worth it.

 

I picked up another shop vac off craigslist, so now i have 2. i was thinking about rigging up a setup that hangs a vac tube on both sides as close as possible to the front edge of the blade where the dust is created. the dust that is taken into the cabinet below is trapped, so i'm not worried so much having vacuum there during the cut.

 

Tom; further to your description, a lot of us have our shops in our garages. This has its own special issue concerning the almost universal garage floor slope, by Building Code.
No problem adjusting cabinets and mobile bases to accommodate the un-level floor, but it does mean that moving tools around in order to actually use them is a royal p.i.t.a!
In mine, as long as I maintain the directional orientation, I can shift things like my ts, but the height also changes relative to the outfeed table. Not ideal.

 

My Shop vac (without any DC) vs cabinet saw wasn't enough. Had to go with more power and volume. Also had to go with an overhead.

"My" shop vac just couldn't keep up and wasn't enough guts to under-pressure my cabinet saw. Once i got that under control, I still had a little above the table (much less but) that an overhead took care of most that balance.

 

Try to serch " Thien cyclone separator " and then " dust sniper " in instructables.com
Sorry! I can't send you direct URLs.

 

Thank you for the help, gentlemen.

 

i just stumbled on this link to a great shop-made table saw guard that has integrated dust collection. i definately plan on making this.

Tablesaw blade guard with dust collection! - by RetiredCoastie @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community

 

Thanks for posting that Chris.

I like that DIY design! Looks good and very functional. That gives me ideas for an overhead crown guard for my cabinet saw. (Which I had been stalling on...) As an overhead, if I built in a pivot point (set by hand) for bevel cuts and it would do for me.

Looking at that also gives me an idea for dust collection on my sleds... If I put a plexiglass guard the over the kerf of a sled as a guard, with a dust port... hinged some other top pieces on each side to extend the "cover" some each way... Hmmm. Don't know how effective it might be or if it might be more of a hindrance. Some testing (playing) needed.

 

Hi Mike

There's another project over on the old Badger Pond website complete with components listing, etc

Regards

Phil

 

Highland Woodworking has an article in their tips section under tablesaw dust control you may want to check out. (I'm not able to post a link yet) After I read this article I paid closer attention and my table top dust was greatly reduced but not entirely. When I notice a lot of dust, I stop and check. 9 times out of 10 proper alignment is the problem. Just my opinion. Hope this helps.
--jay