So here's my questions:
1) What features should I be looking for, and why? (brand, RPMs, size, water cooling, blade holders, jigs, etc.)
2) Are Tormek systems really that much better than standard bench grinders, or are they just price gouging because of their reputation?
3) Are there any smart ways to minimize cost - i.e. refurbished, ebay, online deals, etc.?

As always, thank you for your collective wisdom.

in short I have the Veritas Mk II and Tormek 7...
between the two there's just about isn't anything I can't sharpen...
The Tormek isn't hype and is so far removed from a bench grinder there is no comparison...

 

I HAD both the MkII and the Tormek 2000. Mk II was great for flat irons and chisels, the Tormek does a great job at turning tools.

I couldn't keep both, so I passed the Mk II on to a friend. I still can do flat irons with a rolling tool guide using the 'scary sharp' method.

 

the bench grinder will overheat the steel causing the hardening to weaken. DONT use it to sharpen important tools.

I have the jet version of the tormek, The stone rotates slowly and the steel is in a water bath the whole time, keeping the temp on the steel very low. Theres also a leather strop wheel.

It only takes a minute or two to get a perfect edge, rather than the endless faffing about by hand.

 

The WorkSharp 3000 will do what ever you want even lathe tools. It is very easy to master,and is fast. It does a fist rate job, and you can get back to making sawdust in minutes.
If you have ever used a Drill Doctor, the 3000 works the same way, only on chisels and plane blades.. A great simple way to sharpen tools. It will do everything you have listed.

Herb

 

For hand work I use the DMT diamond stones the 6 x 2 or 8 x2 seem to b the best all around size (the are pricey) For power I find a 1 or 2 " belt sander is useful . If using a grinder use the white of pink stones.

 

If you will be sharpening all day every day then a Tormek style is the right choice for you. If you will be sharpening as needed then a Worksharp is a much lower priced solution. I have noticed nothing being said about the fact that some Tormek accessories can also be used with the Worksharp.

Anyone who has used the "Scary sharp" method of glass and sandpaper sharpening will see the benefit of having a powered version. There is no issue of wheel dressing; PSA sanding disks change quick and easy plus a much wider range of grits are available. You can polish and strop on a Worksharp too.

One thing bothers me about the Tormek style systems: steel + water = rust!

 

Worksharp 3000 really makes this easy. You MUST start by flattening the back of the plane. Once done you won't do it again. You can't necessarily get a sharp edge if the back is not flat.

You can change the sharpening angle on the WS3000 if you wish. It is fast. However, I also use a set of diamond sharpening devices for touchups, which is fast and easy--4-6 swipes and you have a razor edge again. Wide plane irons may not fit in the WS3000, and for these, you will need another method. But I really like the WS3000 a lot more than fiddling with glass and sandpaper.

 

a workshop 3000 costs how much in tangible and intangible dollars plus for the accessories/platens/paper (etc) to cover 80% or better of sharpening needs w/o just getting by......
what is plan ''B'' for wide irons....

 

I don't sharpen plane blades, but if I did I'd opt for Scary Sharp, with a jig, or guide, to get the same angle each time. A plane blade always stays the same, always cuts on the same angle each time, so unless you're very, very, good at sharpening plane blades, I would recommend a jig or guide of some sort, doesn't need to be fancy, just work, and work right.

For lathe tools and chisels, belt sander. My theory on this is, close enough is good enough. That's because the angle constantly changes while you are using them, so you don't actually need a 100% precise angle on them. Quick resharpening, no overpriced gadgets to buy, nothing to dig out when you want to resharpen something, and no adjustments to make. That's the theory anyway. And in practice, works for me exactly the same as the theory.

 

okay...
so after accessories what is the cost..
what do the expendables add up to...

 

Hi stick, I only have one iron that's too wide for the WS. I long ago flattened and sharpened it with the sandpaper on glass. I use a diamond block, the kind with the ovals, and a light purpose made fluid. Just a few strokes now and again to keep it scary sharp. Keep a strop for a final polish. That's plan B. Everything else fits the WS3000. The Tormek is great, its the Mercedes of sharpeners, however, I can only afford the Chevy. The picture is of the stand I made for the WorkSharp--It is square, but the phone camera distorted it. Only thing I'd change is to put an aluminum backer behind to catch the sparks. Don't like having it spew sparks around my workshop. Probably will add a couple of spring clips to the back side so I can take that spark catcher off when I'm using the top surface, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

the impression I get that w/ the workshop there is a never ending need for supplies and after accessories the cost gets up there...
what I want to know is what is the total investment for WS and how much does it cost to keep it fed....

 

You might not want to know. > I have heard their extras are high but then you can spend as much money as you want on just about every tool you buy.

 

I do all mine by hand but I do use a grinding wheel to true the ends up once in a while and that is all you should use a grinder for is to get the correct shape back. In between those times you should only need a quick honing back to sharp with water and diamond stones and sometimes special sandpaper. The dark wheels that come with a grinder should only be used to sharpen axes and lawnmower blades. For chisels and plane blades you need a white friable wheel.

 

I have a Wolverine system for turning tools w/a slow speed grinder. It works well for that purpose but there is a learning curve. A friend has the Tormek and his setup puts a great edge on turning tools albeit slower than my system but he can sharpen other items. I use the slow speed grinder & diamond grit devices for flat items. Unless you are doing production work I would recommend the Tormek. Ditto on not using the grey wheels on much of anything. There is a new wheel available (CBN $125-lifetime warranty) but I would still use a slow speed grinder with it. Most wood turners have gone to tools with replaceable carbide tips and eliminated the sharpening process.

 

@Stick486 I don't use up supplies very fast, so I only bought a few extra glass disks, an extra set of fines and a strop disk. Probably $120-$140 more than the base price. This is an aggressive tool on the coarser grits. Balance that against sandpaper and glass and the resultant mess and I think it's a reasonable price to pay. Yes, I have gotten along without one, but I would never have gotten round to resurrecting some of my old beater chisels with the manual system.

 

@DesertRatTom...

thanks...
all I'm trying to do is figure out the IRL costs of a WS and the cost run ons for it... (care and feeding)

when you change paper can the paper you removed from a platen be reused ot is it history and is all of the paper used or only a portion (sweet spot) of it...

so for you we're into around 325-350$$$

 

I paid $99. new in the box on Craigs List. It came with some discs. I bought the diamond discs (8) for $105 from a Lapidary Supply Co., 80 grt. to 3000 grt. The rubber 6" PSA/magnetic discs, $4.20 from a Magnetic Sign Co. 8 ea. And not sure what the 2'X2' piece of 1/2" MDO cost. I am good for my life time to sharpen anything I want to sharpen.

Anyone know what the correct angle to sharpen a knife blade?

Herb

 

Stick et. al. >

I got my WS3000 early on and can't imagine life without it. I think I've had mine since Christmas of '07. As for supplies (paper primarily), if you shop around you can find 6" PSA discs very reasonable. You'll just have to punch the hole in them. Make sure you get an 'eraser'. Let's the paper last mega times longer. You might want to invest in a Deadman foot switch. When flattening the back of chisels and plane blades it's nice to have that extra control so you can lay the blade on the wheel before engaging the motor. Eliminates those little gouges if you don't lay it on perfect. I've got all the accessories (don't you just love Christmas) and invested in the Tormex thing-a-ma-jig (sorry about the hi-tech lingo) that lets me sharpen my gouges on the top. The only other insight I can offer is that the belt appears to loosen after a some time (mine showed signs about a year or so ago). I think WS figured this would happen as the motor is mounted in slots. I'll post the "Tech Bulletin" in the manual section along with the manual.

Good luck and remember: A Dull tool is a dangerous tool.

 

thanks Francis...
so how much do you think you have wrapped up in your WS...

 

Well, if you take into account that the WS itself & the Tormex adapter were Christmas presents (That's about $270 I believe) I personally purchased the Wide Blade Adapter and the Knife Sharpener Attachment (Don't waste your money here!) and an extra glass plate I probably have a bit less that $200 over 3 to 4 years. As for consumables I either buy 6" PSA discs in bulk (I also use these on a hand block that I made from a piece of scrap oak and some rubber inner tube) or get PSA sheets and cut them to size. I also did away with the 400 grit square on the ramp (it was a royal pain in the ___). Polished it up well and use a piece of wet & dry I keep on the side of my sharpening station. I guess you would have to get up off of a bit over $300 dollars + consumables to be in the ball park. Compared to the Tormex (which is an awesome piece of equipment granted) I still haven't spent that much in the 8 years I've owned mine. Hope that answers your question?

 

What Are You Sharpening With It?

There are too many variables to nail down a tangible/intangible cost.

A person sharpening a lot of carving/lathe tools may use more materials (sandpaper) then someone who is touching up the occasional plane iron or chisel.

There are alternatives to PSA sandpaper available. Those who are interested may want to read through this post.

http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/84929-santas-present-work-sharp-3000-a.html

Just about every tool has ancillary costs involved over and above the initial investment. Grinders need new wheels/wire wheels, sanders need new discs and belts. Even our beloved Veritas MK II will have to have water stones replaced as they wear out. These are all ancillary costs involved in achieving a finished product.

Is the WS3000 worth it...maybe, maybe not...what is the use? Everyone would love to have a Tormek T-7, but at the current street prices I can purchase two WS3000's and a whole lot of sandpaper. Will the WS last as long as the T-7? All things mechanical will wear out and break eventually...who knows? Anyone out there run a WS into the ground, if so, how long was it in use?

For the average woodworker, who needs to set-up, flatten an iron back, repair and sharpen an occasional chisel or plane iron, the WS might be a viable cost effective solution. It is certainly a 1/3 the cost of a machine that will do the same thing and maybe a couple of more minor things for the average Joe in the basic set-up.

I personally love my WS...it has done everything that I have asked it to do so far. Admittedly, it does have some faults and limitations. What machine doesn't? Do I want a T-7? HELL, yes! Can I justify it for what I am doing presently? NO!

If I owned a lathe then I would definitely want a T-7. However, I would have to buy a jig to do gouges on the T-7...oops, another $97 from Rockler. Scissors...$54...axes...$19 from Woodcraft.

See the point?

The Worksharp can't sharpen scissors, axes etc., but the T-7 can. But if you have the T-7 then you have to pay to play. It can get pricey quick.

Bottom line...individual choice based upon intended usage. Are there additional cost? Yes, but what tool that has a cord attached doesn't in one way or another?

 

The Worksharp can't sharpen scissors, axes etc., but the T-7 can. But if you have the T-7 then you have to pay to play. It can get pricey quick.

Bottom line...individual choice based upon intended usage. Are there additional cost? Yes, but what tool that has a cord attached doesn't in one way or another?

I bought the T-7 to do chisels and irons and it has seen some very heavy use.......
only thing I added was an extra Universal Support for the stropping wheel...
did replace the stone, actually Tormek did that on their dime.. (only took the better part of a decade to wear it out)...
zero consumables (other than rouge/honing compound) and there have been no mechanical issues...
being water cooled regrinds and heat were never an issue...

 

Went with the WS3000 when it first came out years ago... invested somewhere between 3-400 in the sharpener, wheels and accessories as they became available. I was sold on the thing, if only for the ease of use. WS produced a decent edge with a minimal amount of work and/or instruction. I used it for several years, sandpaper was an expense, but no matter what you use, the cutting medium is going to be an ongoing expense, even diamond stones will eventually wear if you use em enough.
I had a couple of issues with the WS, not the least of which was it just does NOT put an edge on your tools like the scary sharp method does. The WS puts on a good edge, an acceptable edge to most but it does not compare to an edge you can achieve using the scary sharp method. Having said that, you get what you work for with the scary sharp. SC takes time, it takes a working knowledge of what the hell your doing, you have to know what to expect, when to change grits....blah, blah, blah,, but once you've figured that out (as with most other systems, water stones, ceramics, diamond stones and paste etc.....) you get a superior edge. SC comes at a cost as well, I"ve got well over 250 tied up into honing guides alone. Lee Valley MKII and accessories are, IMHO as good as they get....
If its a good edge your looking for with a marginal investment, almost no learning curve and available accessories to fit most wood working tasks, the WS is not a bad way to go. I've been back to using the SC method for the last couple of years now, and my WS and all the accessories are collecting dust...Diamond stones and Ceramics have peaked my interest but there again, its an investment....
I would strongly suggest you take the time to read "The Perfect Edge" by Ron Hock...Explains in detail what you'd be getting into, various methods and techniques and something that alot of folks don't think about, metallurgy. Alot of folks spend alot of money trying to put an edge on something that just won't take it...kinda like putting lipstick on a pig as they say...

 

I would strongly suggest you take the time to read "The Perfect Edge" by Ron Hock...Explains in detail what you'd be getting into, various methods and techniques and something that alot of folks don't think about, metallurgy. Alot of folks spend alot of money trying to put an edge on something that just won't take it...kinda like putting lipstick on a pig as they say...

I agree with everything you just said, Bill. All of the various systems have their pros and cons. Sometimes, I "thinks dat" the "experts" have conned us into believing that EVERYTHING has to be hyper sharp to work. Not the case! Watch Paul Sellers sharpen a plane iron and tell me that 220 grit isn't adequate!

Your comment on metallurgy strikes a nerve. To this day (and I'll probably upset some folks here) I won't own a Buck knife. They are hard to sharpen and won't hold a decent edge past the first use. All because of the metallurgical composition of the steel in their blades. Before the haters hate. I won't own a Case knife made past the middle '70's for the same reason. They went to off-shore steel around '78 and it was garbage. I shake my head when I look at a modern day Case knife. If I had done work like that it would have never gotten past the QC inspection.

People just don't get that no matter what you do you can't get to a really sharp edge on some things. You just have to determine how sharp is sharp for the job to be done.

 

Did not Jet at one time come out with their version of the T-7? I seem to recall seeing one in Rocklers... actually didn't look too shabby..price point was something like 100 less than the Tormek...I remember thinking that for an extra 100, I'd go with a T-7..

 

I believe many did and eventually Jet stopped offering theirs...

https://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/jettormekcomparo.html

 

good points...

for a WW in their 30/40's a T-7 or even a t-4 it would be a lifetime tool that would carry them to their grave...
somebody our age or Herb's and Keith's antiquity... perhaps not such a good plan....

what I was trying for was to have WS owners post what they had in their machines and what the care and feeding was costing at a best guess estimate...

my T-7, 28 years of heavy commercial use w/no additional monies spent...

 

So what does that work out to? About two bucks a month? Pretty inexpensive for a top of the line tool.

 

With me I think it is the time factor more than the cost. I have a drawer full of sharpening tools, not sharp tools.
The one I used before the WS was one with diamond stones that you slide back and forth. It does a very nice job, I think it has 4 different grts. from course to very fine. And also had a strop and diamond paste,that put a mirror finish on the blade. But it took forever, in my book "forever", is more than 4-5 minutes to sharpen a chisel. I am not one to get any type of thrill out of sharpening tools for hours on end. I like to keep my tools sharp, but dread the time spent doing it.

I have spent probably twice as much as I have invested in the WS 3000 on other methods and found nothing as fast and easy as the WS. To me it sure beats standing there for hours rubbing an edge onto a piece of steel.

Herb

 

@DesertRatTom....
thanks...
getting a better feel for the WS all the time...

 

@Stick486 For a small shop used occasionally, I think it could be classified as a want rather than a need. But I think the tool makers would be out of business fast if we only bought what we need. I admit that I like having tools and lots of goodies to go with them. I went without them most of my life. Nice to have them on hand now.