New Router is Lonely - Needs Table Saw Big Brother - Page 4 - Router Forums
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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Went ahead and purchased the new Bosch 4100-10 delivered for a total of $526 from CPO. Hope to get it and have some fun before my surgery.

As I have an outdoor project this next summer to build a pergola beside my deck and screened-in porch this will come in handy.

Still keeping my eyes out for a cabinet saw, but can go ahead and get stuff done without rushing.

Steve

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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherryville Chuck View Post
The SS uses a cartridge braking system that clamps onto the saw blade, stopping it instantly. In the process both the cartridge and the saw blade are destroyed. The system works on the saw sensing the capacitance of flesh. This is nothing new, it's the same as the solid state elevator floor buttons that Otis has been using since I was fairly young. It's been reported that the cartridge can be triggered by sawing wet wood. You can turn the system off but you have to remember to do that and turn it back on again once you are done with the wet wood. And of course there is no protection when you do this. Many of us believe that it makes more sense to just use safe work practices so that you don't risk getting cut to start with. Plus those practices work for all your other shop equipment which don't utilize that type technology. As far as quality goes, I haven't heard anything bad about the saw. I doubt SawStop makes it. It probably only uses their brake technology.
You are correct about the cartridge however maybe it's the quality of the blade but my Forrest 70 tooth plywood blade survived the cartridge with needing only two teeth replaced. I sent the blade back to Forrest and they repaired the blade as good as new for a fraction of the cost of a new blade. I did have to replace the cartridge of course but considering that instead of the tape measure hitting the blade it was my hand or arm even if I had both to replace it would have been far cheaper than a trip to the emergency room. In fact the rescue squad ride would have been more. But case in point, the cost of the tool will indeed pay for itself should the accident ever happen. I don't gamble on that especially when family is involved. You still need to be careful but they don't call them accidents for nothing. I've seen seasoned veterans get injured so I figure I stand a better chance then they did. You may own these tools for a lifetime and never see blood and that's wonderful. But you might not. Just saying. I've got no skin in the game one way or the other.
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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 08:23 PM
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@sreilly Steve, you didn't need to stick something in the blade just to prove your point.

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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 08:44 PM
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Trust me it was certainly not a planned event. The tape measure still has a very small nick and works great. every time I rub that nick it reminds me of the event. The amount of effort it took to dislodge the blade led me to believe the blade would be toast but a happy surprise when I got the blade back repaired and like new. A quick reset, new blade, and cartridge I bought when I got the saw and I was back in business. Hope that doesn't happen again.
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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 10:49 AM
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@sreilly I have looked at the Saw Stop's cabinet version and although it is way overpriced, it is a really beautiful machine with top notch design and machining. I just won't support a person of the inventor's ilk and hope he's driven out of business so the Bosch system can become the norm.

I like the idea of instant stopping of blades and think it should become the norm. And if I had kids in the shop, I'd probably get it too, despite my disdain for the behavior of the inventor. Meanwhile, I'll be cautious and reinforce all the safety standards, including leaving the blade guards in place whenever possible. The Shark guard is also a dust collection item as well so It pretty much lives on the saw.

The lawsuit to stop the Bosch in the USA is designed to extend the SS patent beyone the legal cutoff date, and it is over the detection method, not the idea. You can patent a method, but not an idea, and the detection method has been around a very long time and is surely off patent by now.

Meanwhile, SS has a monopoly, and uses it against the safety and wellbeing of table saw usere in the USA, especially those who cannot afford the premium cost of the SS.
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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 02:49 PM
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Tom you'll get no argument from me over the saw or technology. Personally I'd love to see this be the normal for all saws regardless of make. But I understand the want/need to protect your technology. It just makes sense. FYI, Festool bought SawStop maybe 1-2 years ago. I expected prices to jump but seems next month there is their annual price increase likely tied into the tariff wars.
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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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At a Sawstop dealer yesterday, he advised at least a 5-10% across the board increase in everything starting in February. He emphasized that price increase several times (I suspect to bumrush me into buying then and there).

What is interesting is that other than the blade-stopping technology, he really couldn't give a clear and concise answer to why Sawstop was superior to Powermatic, Grizzly, and other saws.

I did like the hydraulic lift.

Steve

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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 07:22 PM
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How big is a rock? Read instructions on line about tune up read reviews. A used quality saw is a good deal, but check blade run out, arbor tilt and easy of use.Everyone has a preference on saws, A saw that has 52 inch table is very nice if your cross cutting a sheet of plywood. A good set of good quality blades is very important ( although expensive), and a good fence. I have an original Rockwell Uni Saw with the tables original fence I tweaked using brass screws to take play out when setting fence. and have no complaints (other than thing is very heavy. Like others I removed the right end table and installed a router table. The fence is about .004 error from end to end, saw blade is about .002 inch from being parallel to miter slot. . Before you buy ensure that the miter slot is 3/4 inch and not an off size. Take your time and a lot of time to tune it up. All cuts will reference off errors. Blades a personal choice I use Freud industrial blades. My crosscut blade was about $100.00 I am getting to old to pick up sheets of 3/4 plywood so I use a quality saw guide to cut plywood down to manageable size.
Do you ever have to many power tools never. My wife ask me why I had so many clamps and I did not need that many, so I ask her why she has many cooking tools. Good Luck and the safety test is which is harder a piece of wood or your finger?
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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 10:01 PM
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My wife walked into my shop a few years ago. She took a short break from her quilting addiction to visit. She looked around and asked if I planned to make any money from all those tools. "About as much as you do from all your quilting equipment," I replied. That was the end of that conversation. I did a rough calculation and realized I have alot of tools to go before my gear cost as much as hers. All those high end sewing machines now sit unused as she has settled in on painting.
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